Yellow Tang with red spots

[brian michaels]

I have read a bunch of threads about this type of red spotting on Yellow Tangs but haven't gotten any true idea what it is and how to treat it. I have a 90 gallon fish only tank with this Yellow Tang, a Niger Trigger, 2 Clown fish, a small Damsel fish and one Chocolate Chip starfish. It is a well established tank (6 years) with regular water changes and chems are in the very good range. Nothing new has been introduced in the tank for years but the Tang started showing these red blotches about 5 days ago. He is very active and feeds well. I do not have a quarantine tank. Good or bad, I have never needed one. Is this something that I can do to treat the Tang without removing it from the community tank? He is an elusive little critter but these pics should show the spots well enough.

 

[mr. limpid]

Bacteria infection, go to Beth's thread at top of this form you find the cure good luck.

 

[mr. limpid]

Easiest way I found to remove fish from well established DT. First cut egg crate to fit inside of your DT top to bottom use nori clips or suction cups to keep crate upright. Where ever he or she goes and hides in rocks section off the tank with egg crate wall, making his compartment as small as possible. Start removing rock work and coral to opposite side. Once area is clear of all hiding place catch him or her.

 

[beth]

Yes, it is a bacterial infection, and it is rather advanced. Can't say that he would be ok without actually treating with antibiotics. It is very unusual for a fish to get a bacterial infection in an environment that does not have problems. Do you have high nitrates, or pH problems?
What are you feeding this fish, and how often?

 

[midas man]

Nitrates and Ph are spot on. Diet hasn't changed much at all either. It just sort of came out of the blues. I wouldn't have any issue corralling the Tang but I have I don't have any place to put it though. I don't have a quarantine tank. Is there a antibiotic that I can introduce to the whole tank that would help the Tang but not harm the other fish?

 

[beth]

Antibiotics harm fish tanks, not so much other fish. It will kill off your biofilter in your sandbed and your rocks. Adding antibiotics to a fish tank could cause your fish tank to crash.
Try doing 5 gal water changes daily using new saltwater that has been thoroughly mixed with a pump for at least 24 hours. Feed your fish 2 or 3 times a day with food that has been soaked in freshly minced garlic....not bottled garlic, but fresh garlic.
If you wish to set up a hospital tank, then water quality will be an issue since it would not be a cycled tank. You will have to be diligent about keeping the tank from developing ammonia and nitrites.

 

[brian michaels]

AH! That makes sense! Forgot about the bio balls and substrate bacteria. I'll get on the garlic treatment immediately. About a hospital tank. I use RO/DI water in a clean 45 gallon rubbermaid garbage can on wheels, for my water swaps. I add the proper amount of salt and circulate it for 2 or 3 days to off-gas. I have an identical can I use to remove the old water from the fish tank. 45gal bad water out/ 45gal new water in. Been doing this for 5 years and it's a great process. Can I put the Tang in the 45 gallon can (maybe 1/2 filled with fresh salt water) and use it as a hospital tank and then treat with antibiotics? It's not bio filtered but it does have a circulation pump.

 

[mr. limpid]

You say you have bio balls that you are filtering on your DT? You can use half of them to create a filter box for the garbage can QT. You'll need a pump to pump to a plastic box with a lid that can be mounted inside of can hung on straps drill holes top and bottom and let water trickle threw bio ball filed box back into can.

 

[beth]

The garbage can will not work for a hospital tank, but you can set up rectangular Rubbermaid container as a hospital tank. A tang is not going to fair well in a regular garbage can. You will need to simulate the tank environment to some extend.
Can you access Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish? Call your LFSs to check it.
A a 45 gal water change is way too much stress and turbulence in a tank. What is the timeframe between this water change and the fish getting ill?
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202097689/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=containers&storeId=10051

 

[brian michaels]

Thanks for all the help!! I can do that but do I really need the bio balls in the QT? It will be 45 gallons of fresh salt water for 1 Tang. I don't think there will be enough time for the water quality to get bad. Or am I brain farting some other variable? I have been know to miss the easy stuff. Also, how long would the Tang need to be quarantined?

 

[mr. limpid]

He will need to stay as long as it takes for him to recover. Plan on it being several weeks. Water can get fowl in a day. Also plan on a heater, conditions in this QT must be constant and pristine or he will not get better only worse. Also provide some PVC so he can hide in, stress can kill too. Test prams. daily and have a bottle of Amquel+ or prime on hand.

 

[brian michaels]

It was a few days after the water change that we noticed the rash, but I have been doing 45gal water changes, at 3 week intervals, for the past 5 years. We have always kept the turbulence to a minimal with temps and salinity matched. There is plenty of places for the fish to hide in the tank and it has never had problems in the past. It usually hides behind the rocks and comes out after I'm done. The other fish seem to have a good time when we swap water. Kind of like feeding time. Today I started soaking all their food in fresh garlic water and feeding it to them. I'm going to do this 2x/day for a little bit and see how things progress. I started another water swap, in case I need it and it should be ready in 3-4 days. I like to off gas the water swaps for a couple of days. I'll be ready with a QT if things go south though. I will do the square rubber maid container and put in some rocks and old coral that I use when I want to change things up in the big tank. I will also track down some antibiotics in case. Question: Can this bacteria transfer to the other fish?

 

[beth]

You're basically doing a 50% water change. That has the potential to create all kinds of issues with water chemistry (that is not measured by our hobby tests) but, more important cause mico bacterial blooms. It is not a good practice to perform such large water changes. If it were me, I'd do a 2 gal water change daily, in addition to fresh water top off due to evaporation.
I suggested earlier in the day to do 5 gal water changes daily for now with the garlic food. In the meantime see if you can find the antibiotic I suggested and items you will need to set up a QT. I'm sure you clean your bioballs periodically? When was the last time you cleaned them? Is their any other filter media in the canister?

 

[brian michaels]

I have always assumed, through limited reading and watching pro tank service people, that a 50% swap every few weeks was ok. I guess I am gonna have to do some more research on the subject but I appreciate the info. As far as filter media and such goes, I have a sump pump that goes through a layer of filter floss then cascades over my bio balls and then returns to the tank. I also have 2 other pumps in my sump. One for a UV sterilizer and one for a duel canister set up with GFO and Carbon. I also have a grounding probe in the filter sump to help with lateral line disease. Also 2 fans for good water circulation. As far as the bio balls being cleaned, I cleaned them for the first time last water change. Basically, I removed them and rinsed them real well with RO/DI water. I wasn't aware that they needed cleaning periodically. How is that done properly? I also vacuumed out most nooks and crannies in the filtration system with a make shift pump and hose. That sucked up a lot of white little thin worms and some other mixed sediment. I made that debris and water part of my throw away, during the last water swap. Any suggestions?

 

[beth]

The reason I asked about the bioballs was to assess their effectiveness as media for a hospital tank. So, they were cleaned about 2 weeks ago?

 

[brian michaels]

If rinsing them in RO/DI water is cleaning, then yes. Is that the proper way? I'm not familiar with the frequency and method for cleaning bio balls. Any suggestions? Bottom line, I have been taking care of my own tank for over 5 years now and things appear to be doing ok. But to the the eye of someone with more knowledge, i might be coming up short. Like the constant growth of brown algae that I can't seem to get rid of. I am open to any suggesttions or processes that may get me on the right path or make the tank a better place for a better fish habitat. I probably need someone with the "true know how" to come in and evaluate my processes and procedures. I might be pretty much on but there is always room for improvement. Thanx for the input Beth!

 

[beth]

Bioballs are designed to trap debris (mechanical filtration) and provide a surface area for the proliferation of the bacteria which becomes a part of your tank's biofilter (biological filtration). The problem is that when it traps debris, it usually can not aid in breaking down that waste and you could end up with higher nitrates in your system. The solution, of course, is to clean the bioballs; however, that in turn destroys the balls value as a biological filter. Myself, I am not a bioballs fan. I prefer natural filters such as live sand, live rock, etc.
Do you have live rocks in your tank? What type of substrate do you have?

 

[brian michaels]

That makes total sense which is why I didn't clean the balls until they started to get really filmed up. I figure that high pressure RO/DI water will wash away the debris but maintain the bio asset. This tank is located in our store and was set up 6 years ago with 2-3 inches of bio substrate. I use a debris vacuum every water change to sift through the substrate to pick up the large waste but that is about it. I have never added more substrate either. I have a very large dry lime rock formation that I got in the Fla. Keys that had been used as decoration at a hotel that closed. It was weather worn with no growth but offered good hiding spots for small fish, crabs etc...I placed it in distilled water for a week and rinsed it with purified water numerous times and then let it dry in the sun, before I put it in the tank. That was 4 years ago. 2 years ago I bought 10lbs of live rock and added it to the tank. Since then, the live rock bios have spread to the other rocks and they now all look the same. I have about 8 different dead coral formations that i keep swapping in and out of the tank to change things up. I would remove the ones that are showing brown algae growth and replace them with clean ones. I take the "dirty" ones and distill wash them and then put them in the sun to dry and kill the algae growth. I pay special attention to outside contamination!! The tanks main rock formations stay put at all times but the swapping of the small decorative corals add a little bit of variety to the tank and may help with the fish seeing a bit of variety in their environment. Watcha think?

 

[beth]

Ok, vacuuming substrate is another way, even more so, to spread bacteria around the tank which would cause the problem you are seeing with your tang now. You can't get all the waste by vacuuming. What happens is it ends up in the water column and your fish are exposed to it in a detrimental way. Not to mention substrate particles which they end up breathing in. You also mentioned cleaning out worms, which is a bad thing. Those worms would make wonderful cleaners for your sandbed.
Is your substrate sand or crushed coral? Fine or course? Specifically? How deep is your sand bed?

 

[mr. limpid]

I also have bio balls I have used them for the past 8 years on my FOWL system. To keep your bio balls from going bad, that is having them release high amount of nitrates into your DT is to have them in three compartment separated with a piece of plastic. Every 4 month remove all the balls from 1 compartment and place them in a bucket of discarded water from DT during a water change, swish them a round a bit and return the balls back to wet/dry. This way you are not disturbing to much of the filtration of the system at one time.