yo what type of tank?
- Thread starter kinkfish
- Start date
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thomas712
Guest
An undergravel filter is simply a slotted piece of plastic as a plate that rests on the bottom of the aquairum and (hopefully) lets water flow between the plastic and the bottom of the tank. There are tubes that attach to the bottom piece normally in the corners and sometimes middle back area, that are known as lift tubes. Crushed coral or gravel is placed on top of the filter and the filter, lift tubes, and gravel act together to provide filtration. You can place air stones on top of the lift tubes or powerheads to draw the water down through the gravel and filter plate, then the water rises up the lift tubes.
These types of filtration were ok for freshwater,and were used with saltwater since the 50's, but not anymore. For the salt tank with crushed coral they were found to trap the fish waste and uneaten food which lead many to suffer from high nitrates, and algae blooms. They are very much a poor filtration method.
If this is the type of filter you have then I would consider getting rid of it.
Thomas
These types of filtration were ok for freshwater,and were used with saltwater since the 50's, but not anymore. For the salt tank with crushed coral they were found to trap the fish waste and uneaten food which lead many to suffer from high nitrates, and algae blooms. They are very much a poor filtration method.
If this is the type of filter you have then I would consider getting rid of it.
Thomas
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thomas712
Guest
LOL 
No it doesn't sound like you have an undergravel filter.
You say you have 2 drains and 2 returns. So your tank is drilled? do you have internal overflows? or does the water just drain straight down the holes?
Then to a canister filter and then back to the main tank.
Could you describe it a little better for me or post a pic?
Thomas
P.S. Where did the word shark under my name come from?
No it doesn't sound like you have an undergravel filter.
You say you have 2 drains and 2 returns. So your tank is drilled? do you have internal overflows? or does the water just drain straight down the holes?
Then to a canister filter and then back to the main tank.
Could you describe it a little better for me or post a pic?
Thomas
P.S. Where did the word shark under my name come from?
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thomas712
Guest
I also have egg crate in my 90 gallon, just as a precaution for slipping or falling rocks so that it doesn't break the bottom of the glass, or from what I call a reefalanche.
Thomas
Thomas
kinkfish
Member
ha lol. You are the man you just got promoted to shark. I do not have internal over flows I wish. I have the egg crate with the mesh that sits over the drilled bulk heads. the water just drains from their to the pump then the cannister filter. what do you think am I livin in midevil time. with this tank or with constant gravel vacs will I be ok?
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thomas712
Guest
I want to understand you fully.
Are you saying that you have a tank, with two holes in the bottom where the bulkheads are, with eggcrate, screen, and crushed coral on top? No standpipes? No overflows? The water just drains out the bottom through the crushed coral? and into your canister filter? and then returns at the top of the tank?
Is that right
If this is the case then I would say that it may very well be the worst type of filtration I have ever heard of.
Thomas
Are you saying that you have a tank, with two holes in the bottom where the bulkheads are, with eggcrate, screen, and crushed coral on top? No standpipes? No overflows? The water just drains out the bottom through the crushed coral? and into your canister filter? and then returns at the top of the tank?
Is that right
If this is the case then I would say that it may very well be the worst type of filtration I have ever heard of.
Thomas
jarvis
Member
I think it is might be a little bit better than an under gravel filter. Its diffrent. I will give you that. What kinda pumps are you running? How much live rock in the tank? Dont be discoraged though, you could be sitting on a great tank set up with some minor alterations and if your willing to shell out a little cash. Did you buy the tank used?
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thomas712
Guest
First of all, forgive me, It sounded very strange to me so I rebelled against the idea.
Here would be my concerns:
One with the crushed coral on top of an egg crate you are going to trap debris in all those little squares as well as in the crushed coral itself. If your nitrates are very low as you say then I would at the very least be worried about DOCs in the water.
2. I find it hard to see how the water draining from the bulkheads are going to pull water from within the egg crate and the enitre crushed coral bottom. Sure it will pull from around the hole but how about in the middle and outward portions of the bottom of the tank? In a way now it does sound kind of like an undergravel filter only instead of having lift tubes you have down tubes going to a canister filter.
3. 20 pounds of liverock in a 220 gallon tank will not provide for very much filtration in that way.
4 with possible heavy DOC's in the water and no type of filtration on top to skimm watter off of the top then I would be worried about gas exchange, unless your return keeps the top of the water plenty churned.
But hey if your nitrates are good, water is clear, fish are healthy then I would say you are successful, and thats a good thing.
Thomas
Here would be my concerns:
One with the crushed coral on top of an egg crate you are going to trap debris in all those little squares as well as in the crushed coral itself. If your nitrates are very low as you say then I would at the very least be worried about DOCs in the water.
2. I find it hard to see how the water draining from the bulkheads are going to pull water from within the egg crate and the enitre crushed coral bottom. Sure it will pull from around the hole but how about in the middle and outward portions of the bottom of the tank? In a way now it does sound kind of like an undergravel filter only instead of having lift tubes you have down tubes going to a canister filter.
3. 20 pounds of liverock in a 220 gallon tank will not provide for very much filtration in that way.
4 with possible heavy DOC's in the water and no type of filtration on top to skimm watter off of the top then I would be worried about gas exchange, unless your return keeps the top of the water plenty churned.
But hey if your nitrates are good, water is clear, fish are healthy then I would say you are successful, and thats a good thing.
Thomas
kinkfish
Member
I added a power head for for beter water churn the whole top of the water definatly turns a lot so I think that part is ok. What are docs? I am definatly going to put more live rock in it for more filtration also with my system in order to compensate I have to do more gravel vacs. This is what I have to work with any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have a lot of small white algea growth any ideas of what it could be
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thomas712
Guest
Not sure what the white algea is all about. What is it growing on? glass, rock, both, other? Could be die off or fading coralline algea from the live rock?
DOC = Dissolved Organic compounds
The accumulation of broken down organic matter in an aquarium. Protien skimmers are what remove alot of these DOC's from the water, carbon can also help.
I think adding more live rock like you are thinking about will be a good idea that the whole system will benifit.
Thomas
DOC = Dissolved Organic compounds
The accumulation of broken down organic matter in an aquarium. Protien skimmers are what remove alot of these DOC's from the water, carbon can also help.
I think adding more live rock like you are thinking about will be a good idea that the whole system will benifit.
Thomas
me-n-my-fish
Member
I do belive i see what Thomas712 is saying. The little holes in the egg crate that are not around the over flow where it goes in to the canster filter, will just hold the "junk" that accumulates (sp) in the bottom of the tank. The "junk" has no way out. It is trapped. Now, this is just my opinon, but the "extra" vacumes or more LR will help, but it would be a "band-aid" to an problem that will raise its ugly head in the future. Look at the pic below. Now it is just something that i created in PS, but it hopefully will do the job. See all the "junk" it will allways be there in some shape or form. No matter how much live rock you have, or how may times you vacume. It has no where to go, it can not get to the drain hole (reddish-pinkish circle) that feeds your filter. Only the blue spots will be clean.
But, on a good note, you are still ok. What i would do is to go to HD or some where and get some sand. SD or what ever. I do not have access to SD in my area, so i used quick create play sand. Real cheap. Like 2 bucks for 50#'s. Take the CC and the egg crate out. Build you a wall around your holes with some Plexi Glass, once again, real cheap at the same HD store. Get you some aquairum (sp) silicone and seal it up. Let it go to the filter. Dump the sand in there until you get about 4 inches of sand. This set up will assure you of a good, low maintance tank for a long time. Then go out and get your LR, let it cycle, and then your good to go.
BTW, just because is says "shark" under a guys name, does not mean that he/she knows everything about everything. That is why we have this BB, to share, and pool our knowledge.
(No disrespect to the sharks )
But, on a good note, you are still ok. What i would do is to go to HD or some where and get some sand. SD or what ever. I do not have access to SD in my area, so i used quick create play sand. Real cheap. Like 2 bucks for 50#'s. Take the CC and the egg crate out. Build you a wall around your holes with some Plexi Glass, once again, real cheap at the same HD store. Get you some aquairum (sp) silicone and seal it up. Let it go to the filter. Dump the sand in there until you get about 4 inches of sand. This set up will assure you of a good, low maintance tank for a long time. Then go out and get your LR, let it cycle, and then your good to go.
BTW, just because is says "shark" under a guys name, does not mean that he/she knows everything about everything. That is why we have this BB, to share, and pool our knowledge.
(No disrespect to the sharks
)
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thomas712
Guest
Originally posted by me-n-my-fish
BTW, just because is says "shark" under a guys name, does not mean that he/she knows everything about everything. That is why we have this BB, to share, and pool our knowledge.
(No disrespect to the sharks
) True enough, being a shark does not mean they know everything.
90 some percent of the time they are just like any other poster, a simple member of the community. They don't have to slip into Mod mode until they feel it necessary to delete vulgar or inappropriate posts. Which on this board thankfully is not really all that often compared to some boards.
me-n-my-fish - good post, the diagram helps. It does seem like and odd setup (no offense kinkfish) It just sounds like someone was trying to build a better mouse trap or something. I wonder if this could have been a freshwater tank at one time.
Thomas
E
elan
Guest
i have a question.......
what happends if you have a power outage??? how do you prevent all the water from emptying down the hole on the bottom of your tank???
What i see around today is a PVC pipe of sorts coming up from the holes in the bottom of a tank. this way, if there is a power outage, the water will only empty to the tip of the PVC leaving most of the water in the tank....
what happends if you have a power outage??? how do you prevent all the water from emptying down the hole on the bottom of your tank???
What i see around today is a PVC pipe of sorts coming up from the holes in the bottom of a tank. this way, if there is a power outage, the water will only empty to the tip of the PVC leaving most of the water in the tank....
jarvis
Member
Originally posted by jlem
I do think the last owner was living in midevil times and you just new no better. I guess we will forgive Thomas for not jumping to conclusions and heaven forbid you should thank him for wanting as much info as he could get before giving advice.
I agree something really got screwed somewhere along the lines here. Im sure it was a great reef set up initally. I would really need to see some photos to give advice on what to do. If you decide to make any modifications that include removing one or both pumps I would be intrested in buying them off you if the price is right. My email is stevetorresin@yahoo.com.
kinkfish
Member
thanks for all your help.But I need to get a digital camera so I can show you because I think I am confusing you guys with my description. But if I had a power outage it is a closed system drilled from the bottom connected with tubing for the drains and returns no were for the water to go it would just stop moving.