Your Thoughts on Reestablishing LR?

[beth]

I agree that live rock from the ocean, under the best of circumstances, is superior; however, so much of the "live" component of live rock that comes from the ocean is lost by the time it finds its way into our tanks, that I daresay the alternative, cultivating your own rock, is a viable option.
The key is seeding, and not with a dead shrimp carcass. Getting well established live rock from another tank, or even buying a few pieces of live rock is your best bet. Seeding and replenishing is always a good thing to keep in mind, especially for a reef tank. Its not something done only at setup, but is an ongoing process for the life your system. By seeding and replenishing, you will ensure that your tank is teaming with beneficial and diverse life forms that support your efforts to create a natural filtration system in your tank.

 

[locoyo386]

Originally Posted by mboswell1982
http:///forum/post/2940863
i have been following this thread, and i really love the thought you guys put into your questions and answers and hypothesises. id chime in, but, with my grammar, ya'll would be scratching your head going, "what cave did this neanderthal crawl out of" within 2 minutes LOL
anyway, locoyo, you always bring up some great questions and great hypothesis's and ideas, thank you
and if you want man, feel free to chime in on my experimental tank down in the nano section LOL
Is that the thread that is tittled "the start of my 20L adventure lol"?

 

[mboswell1982]

yep yep, its taken me forever to get it going, but, ive got a fully operational saltwater fish tank now

 

[locoyo386]

Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2940887
I agree that live rock from the ocean, under the best of circumstances, is superior; however, so much of the "live" component of live rock that comes from the ocean is lost by the time it finds its way into our tanks (I agree), that I daresay the alternative, cultivating your own rock, is a viable option. (I thnk this is the second best thing that could be done.)
The key is seeding, and not with a dead shrimp carcass.
Placing the dead shrimp carcass is not for seeding the rock. It is more so the start of the cycle, that with time (long time), will bring life to the aquarium. Sure this is not the most perfect (efficent) way to bring life to your rocks. Seeding them and allowing the existing critters to migrate to it will do this more efficent and in a much much faster time.
Getting well established live rock from another tank, or even buying a few pieces of live rock is your best bet. Seeding and replenishing is always a good thing to keep in mind, especially for a reef tank. Its not something done only at setup, but is an ongoing process for the life your system. By seeding and replenishing, you will ensure that your tank is teaming with beneficial and diverse life forms that support your efforts to create a natural filtration system in your tank.

 

[locoyo386]

Awsome, I will check it out later today.
Originally Posted by mboswell1982
http:///forum/post/2940908
yep yep, its taken me forever to get it going, but, ive got a fully operational saltwater fish tank now

 

[beth]

I know what the dead shrimp is for....and its a poor choice for kick-starting a cycle. If you have live rock, live sand, no help to kick start is needed, except to feed the live inhabitants. If you have strictly a fish-only, or even a quarantine tank, then best to use a bit of rock rubble from a well established tank. Dead shrimp, in and of itself, does not provide a new tank with bacterial colonies it needs. Its a poor choice. The practice of using dead shrimp was popular a few years ago, but it is no substitute for a bit of rubble rock, live rock, live sand for cycling. And with these other things, why use a shrimp? A single piece of LR is far superior. Then feed that rock so that the existing micro fauna will multiple, producing a greater bioload that feeds the biofilter.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by mboswell1982
http:///forum/post/2940863
i have been following this thread, and i really love the thought you guys put into your questions and answers and hypothesises. id chime in, but, with my grammar, ya'll would be scratching your head going, "what cave did this neanderthal crawl out of" within 2 minutes LOL
anyway, locoyo, you always bring up some great questions and great hypothesis's and ideas, thank you
and if you want man, feel free to chime in on my experimental tank down in the nano section LOL
Mike, you are more than welcome in any of my threads anytime; your grammer and spelling can't be any worse than mine !
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2941185
I know what the dead shrimp is for....and its a poor choice for kick-starting a cycle. If you have live rock, live sand, no help to kick start is needed, except to feed the live inhabitants. If you have strictly a fish-only, or even a quarantine tank, then best to use a bit of rock rubble from a well established tank. Dead shrimp, in and of itself, does not provide a new tank with bacterial colonies it needs. Its a poor choice. The practice of using dead shrimp was popular a few years ago, but it is no substitute for a bit of rubble rock, live rock, live sand for cycling. And with these other things, why use a shrimp? A single piece of LR is far superior. Then feed that rock so that the existing micro fauna will multiple, producing a greater bioload that feeds the biofilter.
Now Beth, I like the way you think! I've never cycled a tank yet with either a fish or a shrimp

. Plain old LR, LS, and a little "seed" to get it all started

.

 

[locoyo386]

Hi there,
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2941185
I know what the dead shrimp is for....and its a poor choice for kick-starting a cycle.
Why is this, considering you are not using "live rock" or "live sand"?)
If you have live rock, live sand, no help to kick start is needed, except to feed the live inhabitants.
Well if you have "live rock" and "live sand" than would that not imply that you have the nitrifying bacteria, thus no need to kick start the cycle?
Well maybe not. At which point you would keep a close eye on water levels.
If you have strictly a fish-only, or even a quarantine tank, then best to use a bit of rock rubble from a well established tank.
True, this is the most prefered way to start a tank.
Dead shrimp, in and of itself, does not provide a new tank with bacterial colonies it needs.
The shrimp itself does not, but I think that the process of dicomposition thus begin the process. The living matter that gets decomposed allows for other living organisms to thrive. That is why I wonder, if you place a shrimp "only" in a saltwater tank, if this would so anything in the water.
Its a poor choice.
I do not have enough knowledge to either agree or disagree with this statement.
The practice of using dead shrimp was popular a few years ago, but it is no substitute for a bit of rubble rock, live rock, live sand for cycling.
I will agree with this statement. It is simply put bring an already establish biofiltration media into a new tank. Thus you have saved time and effort on establishing a new tank.
And with these other things, why use a shrimp? A single piece of LR is far superior. Then feed that rock so that the existing micro fauna will multiple, producing a greater bioload that feeds the biofilter.
True true

 

[spanko]

So....for the purpose of definition of "live rock" in this thread are we seeing that the inclusion of flora and fauna are a necessary component? What of the definition of live rock for those that want a sterile environment for the keeping of seahorses where the bacteria may be the only component they are looking for? Is that then something other than "live rock"?

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2941483
So....for the purpose of definition of "live rock" in this thread are we seeing that the inclusion of flora and fauna are a necessary component? What of the definition of live rock for those that want a sterile environment for the keeping of seahorses where the bacteria may be the only component they are looking for? Is that then something other than "live rock"?
Interesting question. For my perspective (at least that from which the thread was started), I have to say I was referring to the inclusing of fauna and flora (things like macroalgaes, mini featherdusters, microstars, coralline algaes, etc). However I agree that rock that contains bacteria and lacks all of those things is also techniqually LR.
Another questions - we (or at least I) think of base rock as rock with no life (including bacteria). However one of the more popular internet sites is now selling "deep" rock as base rock - I would tend to think that it already contains bacteria - so by the previous definition, it would be considered LR?

 

[locoyo386]

Hi there,
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2941483
So....for the purpose of definition of "live rock" in this thread are we seeing that the inclusion of flora and fauna are a necessary component? What of the definition of live rock for those that want a sterile environment for the keeping of seahorses where the bacteria may be the only component they are looking for? Is that then something other than "live rock"?
Awsome and interesting point. That is where the varience of definition comes in play, how live is "live rock". Is it all inclusive, or just partial or even minimal (nitrifying bacteria only)? Very interesting point.

 

[locoyo386]

HI therem,
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2941863
Interesting question. For my perspective (at least that from which the thread was started), I have to say I was referring to the inclusing of fauna and flora (things like macroalgaes, mini featherdusters, microstars, coralline algaes, etc). However I agree that rock that contains bacteria and lacks all of those things is also techniqually LR.
I agree here.
Another questions - we (or at least I) think of base rock as rock with no life (including bacteria).
I agree, "dead rock, base rock" has no life at all. But is there really a completely "dead rock". All rocks are and will be exposed to either air (oxygen, air born particulates, etc.) or water. At wich point at would think there is some type of life.

However one of the more popular internet sites is now selling "deep" rock as base rock - I would tend to think that it already contains bacteria - so by the previous definition, it would be considered LR?
"deep rock" as in rock that comes from very deep in the ocean?

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by locoyo386
http:///forum/post/2941897
HI there,
"deep rock" as in rock that comes from very deep in the ocean?
Not "very" deep, just deep enough that there is no light penetration and therefore no development of photosynthetic organisms - never ordered it, so I don't know about other microorganisms like microstars, etc.)

 

[locoyo386]

Hi there,
Sorry to side track, but have you guys seen this article?
http://www.geotimes.org/mar07/articl..._nitrogen.html
Hey Scopas what brach of science are you in?

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by locoyo386
http:///forum/post/2942040
Hi there,
Sorry to side track, but have you guys seen this article?
http://www.geotimes.org/mar07/articl..._nitrogen.html
Hey Scopas what brach of science are you in?
Pretty interesting article locoyo

. I love how we are constantly learning new things in the marine sciences.
I teach life sciences right now (biology and aquatic biology (1st Sem: freshwater/2nd sem: marine)), but I've taught everything from 9th grade science to Advanced Chemistry (have both a life science and physical science major - I was a premed student; then life happened

).

 

[beth]

Live rock is not really a scientific term, but a word used by hobbyists so you could say that any rock with any life, including just bacteria, is live. To me, however, this "bacteria only" LR defeats the intent of the word as used in the hobby. Powerheads also have bacteria in it, but powerheads aren't live powerheads.
The phrase simply refers to the various lifeforms living on and within the rocks, be they bacteria, plant, or animal. But, all of the above.

 

[locoyo386]

Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2942268
Live rock is not really a scientific term, but a word used by hobbyists so you could say that any rock with any life, including just bacteria, is live. To me, however, this "bacteria only" LR defeats the intent of the word as used in the hobby. Powerheads also have bacteria in it, but powerheads aren't live powerheads.
The phrase simply refers to the various lifeforms living on and within the rocks, be they bacteria, plant, or animal. But, all of the above.
I agree, the definition of "live rock" in this hobby should include all the mentioned above. What name would it be given to the rock that hosts nitrification bacteria ONLY, as Spanko asked above? "Base Rock". "Partial Live Rock"?

 

[beth]

I don't know that there is a name for it in the hobby. Cycled rock?

 

[locoyo386]

Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2942386
I don't know that there is a name for it in the hobby. Cycled rock?

Well I guess spanko gets the priviledge to name it.