Obama to address nation?????????

2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/385466/obama-to-address-nation/80#post_3381619
History.......much is forgotten
Bin laden moved to afghanistan near the beginning of the afghan invasion. He even set up offices in in 2 U.S. cities for recruitment of rebels to fight against the russians. He was already fighting in afghanistan since 1979. We came along and supplied rpgs and other surface to air devices. We trained them in guerrilla warfare. They beat back the russians.
After that war he moved back to saudi where he lived a couple years until the U.N. sanction liberation of kuwait from iraq. Saudi arabi allowed us and the west allies to set up bases permanently. This is what made him angry.......that infidels were allowed to live and havea precense in saudi arabi. Right, we used him to serve our own interests by supporting the fight against the russians. We didn't do it to help support the rebel cause, we did it for our own. There is oil over there that we are dependant on and we need it. Perhaps our presense over there was nothing more than an excuse for him to launch his radical philoshpy because he felt misslead. Again I'm not excusing terrorism but who's to say what really was in his head.
Let me ask you something.......the U.S. trained lee harvey oswald how to shoot...so is the U.S to blame for the death of JFK? Should we change policy and no longer train troops.? Darth, I'm not even going to open that can of worms. I guess it would all depend on whether or not I believed that he was acting alone. Too many what ifs. We have no choice but to train troops unless we wish to be over run by terrorists or dictators. An unfortunate thing of living in an imperfect world.
Other question.........have you ever lived outside the U.S.? Do you understand the scope of how intertwined the global economy truly is? Nope, does anybody truly understand the scope of such a thing? If you do then I'd have to say you probably missed your calling my man.
Darth if you want to run around here with osamas head on your avatar then go for it. Everybody needs something to feel proud about in times like these, it's cool. But tell me when all of our troops have come home or that we've eradicated terrorism from the face of the earth. Better yet, tell me that we've found the key to world piece and I'll tell you that I have found a reason to celebrate something that has come out of all of this mess. The war isn't over yet. That's all I'm sayin.
 
S

smartorl

Guest
No the wars not over. Let's face it, warlike actions, whether they are declared a war or not officially, will continue until we finally blow up the planet.
I was at a friends house when the news broke. A mutual friend, a battle wounded, honorably discharged, navy seal was there. He quietly went off to the kitchen. A while later, I went to get a drink and found him sitting on the floor sobbing. Very awkward as I really don't know him super well.
We talked and he was crying because he felt such a wave of validation. He joined the armed services to defend our country, as had his forefathers.
He felt validated for the time he spent away, the birth of his child, the loss of his older child to brain cancer, the death of his marriage, the loss of his aunt in the WTC, the loss of his friends and family in battle, his missing arm, the list just went on and on.
He felt peace for the first time in years "knowing that mother f'er is burning in Hell".
For many, that gave them closure to an ugly event in our history. Is it an end or a "fix"? Absolutely not, but it served it's purpose.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
My best friend in high school had an uncle who was a SEAL in Vietnam. I asked him how he felt about us losing the war(something I've come to learn was a misstatement, pushed by the leftist media). He said he was there to kill the enemy, something he and his comrades did expertly. Whether the war was won or lost could be debated by politicians. He felt proud to have done his duty. Whether killing OBL shortens the conflict or shortens the war is immaterial. The single greatest threat was eliminated. Mission accomplished.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Quills.....I agree the war is not over...far from it....honestly there was a small part of me that hoped we never gotosama. Just for the simple reason people don't understand tthe scope of which we are defending against. And with him dead would begin asking for troops to come home.
Tghere is a personal reason I have had the towers in my avatar for years...rarely changing it and always returning it to its proper spot in my avatar. My current avatar will go away eventually as well returning the towers. My reason for using the current one is personal as well...and not meant to imply we have won at all.
As for the global aspect.....I believe I have better grasp on the global implications and how much everything is intertwined more so than most citizens. That is the reason I shake my head at comments such as close the bases around the world....tax foreign goods higher....leave the middle east alone......all of the problems we have today started after world war 2. It became compounded after the fall of the USSR and our" winning" of the cold war. Actually....if the cold war was still on....we wouldn't have half the problems we have today.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/385466/obama-to-address-nation/100#post_3381691
Quills.....I agree the war is not over...far from it....honestly there was a small part of me that hoped we never gotosama. Just for the simple reason people don't understand tthe scope of which we are defending against. And with him dead would begin asking for troops to come home.
Tghere is a personal reason I have had the towers in my avatar for years...rarely changing it and always returning it to its proper spot in my avatar. My current avatar will go away eventually as well returning the towers. My reason for using the current one is personal as well...and not meant to imply we have won at all.
As for the global aspect.....I believe I have better grasp on the global implications and how much everything is intertwined more so than most citizens. That is the reason I shake my head at comments such as close the bases around the world....tax foreign goods higher....leave the middle east alone......all of the problems we have today started after world war 2. It became compounded after the fall of the USSR and our" winning" of the cold war. Actually....if the cold war was still on....we wouldn't have half the problems we have today.
Understandable. Things just aren't as easy as they sometimes seem. I wish for peace over there and would love to see our troops home but the reality at this point is that it would probably a huge mistake in doing so. With osama being dead it's a major score for our troops and victims of the bombings brought on by the man. I really don't wish to take that away from our people. They deserve so much more but at least they have this much.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
How can we expect to solve terrorism when a large number of those in control of our government refuse to admit it is a Muslim problem and deal with it accordingly.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Reef, I disagree to an extent.......the more I read and the more I encounter I feel it is no different than. The southern christian bapists during segregation......not so much a religion aspect,but a racist/bigotry aspect to their ideology.......it wasn't that long ago when a lot of people used god to defend there hatred for blacks....hell some today still do sadly. And we weren't a third world nation then..........
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Islam is the only religion that has not evolved and changed in the last 2000 years very much. Every other religion for the most part has........most of them in the last 70 years......most in countries that embraced technological advances......
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril.
Sun Tzu
Of course most of us know Sun Tzu and The Art of War and can respect the wisdom of his military strategy, but most people don't understand the nuance of his strategy. If we cannot understand what motivates our enemies, we will never defeat our enemy. Muslims are not our enemy, but our enemies are Muslim. To ram our heads in the sand and pretend it has nothing to do with the conflict we are in is to tie a hand behind our back. Jihad dictates the subjugation of the world under Islam-kill or enslave the non-believers. That is a fact, not prejudice. It is what our enemies shout at the top of their voice, yet jelly-spine liberals want us to pretend that's not the case. Good Muslims might get offended. Well, Aryans claim to be Christian, but I don't get offended when they are labeled the murdering lunatics they are. Why would Muslims get upset when Jihadists are called murdering lunatics? We are not at war with Islam, but we are at war with certain followers of Islam. How that can be offensive to anyone who is not following that path is beyond me. When the Irish Protestants and Catholics were killing each other (I am of Irish ancestry), I was not offended when it was pointed out that each side was using their religion to excuse wanton murder and terrorism. We will not win against this Islamic facism, unless we understand where these people are coming from. Political correctness will not win this war, only understanding what makes these people tick will.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice http:///forum/thread/385466/obama-to-address-nation/100#post_3381819
Understanding what makes them cease to tick is also a tried and true approach....
For the Jihadists, only a bullet to a vital part of the body will get them to cease the ticking. That is because they are taught that all martyrs will get an instant ticket to paradise. Understanding that part of the religion helps set a baseline. Those who have declared jihad have to die. Not because we are evil and must kill those who disagree with us, but because their religion tells them to die and take as many non-believers with them. There is no rational discussion and peace treaties. There is death and that is the only option. After you kill enough of them, then you have a chance to convince them fighting is useless. Trying to reach out and sing songs around a campfire will get us all killed. Daniel Pearl, unfortunately, thought he could reach out and talk with them and understand them. That didn't work out so well. Daniel Pearl was a good man, with a good heart. His belief that we all can understand each other and get along got him killed.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/385466/obama-to-address-nation/100#post_3381821
For the Jihadists, only a bullet to a vital part of the body will get them to cease the ticking. That is because they are taught that all martyrs will get an instant ticket to paradise. Understanding that part of the religion helps set a baseline. Those who have declared jihad have to die. Not because we are evil and must kill those who disagree with us, but because their religion tells them to die and take as many non-believers with them. There is no rational discussion and peace treaties. There is death and that is the only option. After you kill enough of them, then you have a chance to convince them fighting is useless. Trying to reach out and sing songs around a campfire will get us all killed. Daniel Pearl, unfortunately, thought he could reach out and talk with them and understand them. That didn't work out so well. Daniel Pearl was a good man, with a good heart. His belief that we all can understand each other and get along got him killed.
I have read the Quran and I keep a copy for reference, and it NEVER teaches this. While it does say that if...IF...you die defending the faith to be assured of blessings in the kingdom to come. The leaders such as Bin Laden have taught the people to believe this way, but the religion does not teach it. That is like saying the Bible teaches Jesus is God, the Christians are taught to believe it, but there is no scripture that says that.
That Christian preacher Jim Jones or some such name, taught his followers to die too...he gave them poison laced kool aid and they drank it willingly. There are crazies in every sect of religion.
Killing the infidels (those who oppose God) is in the Quran, it's also in the Bible
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Exactly Flower, and that is my point. These Jihadists are not normal people. They have warped Islam. Same as Aryans with Christianity. This is not an condemnation of Islam, but Islam is the excuse they use. And I have read the Quran front to back. And there are scriptures that support jihad, but there are also scriptures that state to live in peace. We are at war with a sect of Islam that chooses to follow the former rather than the latter.
There shall be no compulsion in religion.
Quran 2:236
Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.
Quran 48:29
Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.
Quran 9:123
This is not unlike God's commandment to the Jews to drive the Canaanites out of the land of promise, but very few Jews today subscribe to the literal command to kill non-Jews and drive them out of Israel.
It is those who follow the literal directive listed above that we are at war with. I have plenty more if you want them, but the point has been made. The Quran can be a guide to a peaceful life or an excuse for murder. The problem is that while Jews and Christians have moved past the "kill them all" stage, a large portion of Muslims are still living in that 5th century mindset.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/385466/obama-to-address-nation/100#post_3381825
.
Killing the infidels (those who oppose God) is in the Quran, it's also in the Bible
Yes it is. I can't remember the exact passage. But the gist of it is God commanded his people to kill all of their enemies...women, children, and men. Not to intermix with them or assimilate them...but to kill all of them. Take no slaves or servants. Basically to that affect.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///forum/thread/385466/obama-to-address-nation/100#post_3381811

It is what our enemies shout at the top of their voice, yet jelly-spine liberals want us to pretend that's not the case. Good Muslims might get offended.
I am going to call you out right here. Only Liberals? Or is your hatred for the otherside of the aisle so big you blame them for everything? I seem to remember some pretty prominent conservatives stating the same thing.
 
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