27 dead at Connecticut Elementary School

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/200#post_3504742
I keep repeating myself because you don't get the obvious.
Can you use other weapons that have the capability of causing the same results? Absolutely. But at some point you need to eliminate the obvious for the simple fact that it could potentially reduce the number of murders that occur in these instances.
So the obvious would be what exactly? All guns? You just said that other weapons (non assault style I assume) can be equally as deadly (which I would agree with). So explain again "the obvious". Because obviously this doesn't sound right. So is it all guns or just assault riffles?
On another note...did I or did I not hear you mention earlier in this thread or somewhere else that you own an AR? And if so, what in the heck could have been going through your mind when you purchased such a thing? If you don't own one then it's my bad for mistaking you for someone else.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/200#post_3504742
I'm sick of seeing these multiple murders because someone wants the ability to spend $900 - $1200 for some "macho gun" that they can in turn drop $80 to spend one hour at some gun range plinking at some immobile target once every 3 months. Meanwhile, you have the mentally disjointed buying the same weapon and using it to viciously murder 27 innocent victime, 2/3rd's of them 7 years or younger.
I didn't see where this kid went out and purchased the guns himself. From what I understand they belonged (legally) to his mother. The problem "obviously" is that the mother who clearly understood that her child had mental issues kept unlocked guns around the house. I wouldn't care if I had to submit proof that I don't live in the same house hold with a mentally handi cap person. And if I did then I wouldn't even have proof being required to own a locked safe. If you want to pass some new laws, maybe you should go for those. You'd probably meet with less resistance.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/220#post_3504747
I didn't see where this kid went out and purchased the guns himself. From what I understand they belonged (legally) to his mother. The problem "obviously" is that the mother who clearly understood that her child had mental issues kept unlocked guns around the house. I wouldn't care if I had to submit proof that I don't live in the same house hold with a mentally handi cap person. And if I did then I wouldn't even have proof being required to own a locked safe. If you want to pass some new laws, maybe you should go for those. You'd probably meet with less resistance.
Her son had no "mental issues". He was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. He never exhibited any violent tendencies. He had gone shooting several times with her mother with the same guns he used. If she was concerned that he had mental problems, and could be a danger to himself or society, why would she allow him to shoot the weapons in the first place? Where did you read that the guns were unlocked? She was found in her bed with the gunshots to her head. If the kid knew where she kept them, I imagine he also knew how to unlock the safe or wherever she had them stored. Why would they be locked up in the first place? He was 20 years old, and it was just her and him living in the house. I don't keep my guns locked up, since I have all adults in my home. EWhat good are they for home protection if I had to go looking for a key, or figure out some combination just to gain access to them if I heard someone breaking into my home?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/200#post_3504743
If my kids disrespect me, I punish them by taking away their privileges. They lose their cars, they lose the ability to go out with their friends, they lose the ability to use their computers and phones. To them, that's more devastating than me whacking them on the ass and telling them to don't do that again. You apparently don't understand what hurts the present day child more. Kids get more violent because their surroundings have become more violent. If it's not peer pressure, it's cyberbullying. Kids tend to be more arrogant and senical to their peers, their families, and their friends. Why is that? That's the magical question no one seems to be able to answer.
I agree, there are indeed better ways to discipline a child than spanking. However, there is a difference between a beating and a spanking, many adults nowadays that hit their kids, don't seem to know the difference. Shaken baby syndrome...seriously????
My opinion on the mystical reason for more violence in the youth of today.......... Our children are exposed to all kinds of TV evils, living in the inner city around gangs, then add the violent video games the kids play...
The young people are desensitized to everything evil, and what was once totally unaccepted behavior is now socially unaccepted. They are desensitized to homosexuality. Disrespecting others, the police and teachers are all found in the movies now. What is accepted now was never allowed to be around children. Parents used to argue away from the hearing of little ears, now adults openly use them for pawns in custody battles, and explain all their troubles to them. TV was not even allowed to show a double bed, not even with married adults. Dick Van Dike, and the Lucy show had single beds and they never slept together.
Cursing was never heard on TV...but not now. Every made for TV movie has a steamy love scene, not just in theaters, My mother told me that the only reason people went to see Gone with the wind was to here the man in the end say he didn't give a dam...wow have things changed! Most shows have a gay couple in one form or another (even dumb shows like Buffy the vampire slayer), cursing is common speech, kids can die in the movies now, also the bad guys (and monsters) win most of the time. The movie makers say it's more like reality that way.
Well to be honest, I always thought that we go to the movies, watch TV, and play video games to ESCAPE reality. They do have shows and movies that are designed for young people...but the kids are allowed to watch R rated movies at home on DVD, Netflix and a host of other media....so what use are the ratings if the adults in the home don't care enough to bother monitoring what their kids are exposed to? Then there is the internet....Wicca is now an acceptable religion...the list is endless
Is that answer enough?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/220#post_3504746
So the obvious would be what exactly? All guns? You just said that other weapons (non assault style I assume) can be equally as deadly (which I would agree with). So explain again "the obvious". Because obviously this doesn't sound right. So is it all guns or just assault riffles?
On another note...did I or did I not hear you mention earlier in this thread or somewhere else that you own an AR? And if so, what in the heck could have been going through your mind when you purchased such a thing? If you don't own one then it's my bad for mistaking you for someone else.
Let me clarify my position. Assault weapons WITH LARGE MAGAZINES have no logical purpose in the hands of the average citizen. Even the President recognizes that people should have the right to own certain weapons to protect themselves, their property, enjoy their sport, or use them for hunting. But a weapon that can hold 30+ rounds at one time?
I owned two AR's back in the 70's and 80's. Both were original Colt's. They were pre-86, and if I wanted to convert them to full-auto, it wouldn't have been hard to do. I had 30-round clips that we used to destroy cactus out in Big Bend where we went Mule Deer hunting every season. 95% of the time I had no larger than a 5-round clip in the gun when I did use it for hunting.
I imagine one of the proposal's that will be made in this Obama Committee is to restrict or eliminate access to any magazine that can hold 30 rounds of ammo or more. I can attest that the AR is a popular weapon to use for hunting - it's lightweight, it's accurate up to 250 yards, and very durable when hunting in thick brush and rough terrain. There's no logical reason for a hunter to need a 30-round magazine to hunt with. If they need that much ammo at one time, they have no business trying to kill a deer in the first place. That's the quandry. How do you restrict the size of the magazine without restricting the weapon altogether? If you have access to the weapon, it wouldn't be very hard to find "someone" selling 30-round or larger magazines. There's hundreds of thousands of them already in public hands, and they wouldn't be very difficult to reproduce. You could easily obtain them in Europe, and most likely China, and just have them shipped directly to your home.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/220#post_3504749
I agree, there are indeed better ways to discipline a child than spanking. However, there is a difference between a beating and a spanking, many adults nowadays that hit their kids, don't seem to know the difference. Shaken baby syndrome...seriously????
My opinion on the mystical reason for more violence in the youth of today.......... Our children are exposed to all kinds of TV evils, living in the inner city around gangs, then add the violent video games the kids play...
The young people are desensitized to everything evil, and what was once totally unaccepted behavior is now socially unaccepted. They are desensitized to homosexuality. Disrespecting others, the police and teachers are all found in the movies now. What is accepted now was never allowed to be around children. Parents used to argue away from the hearing of little ears, now adults openly use them for pawns in custody battles, and explain all their troubles to them. TV was not even allowed to show a double bed, not even with married adults. Dick Van Dike, and the Lucy show had single beds and they never slept together.
Cursing was never heard on TV...but not now. Every made for TV movie has a steamy love scene, not just in theaters, My mother told me that the only reason people went to see Gone with the wind was to here the man in the end say he didn't give a dam...wow have things changed! Most shows have a gay couple in one form or another (even dumb shows like Buffy the vampire slayer), cursing is common speech, kids can die in the movies now, also the bad guys (and monsters) win most of the time. The movie makers say it's more like reality that way.
Well to be honest, I always thought that we go to the movies, watch TV, and play video games to ESCAPE reality. They do have shows and movies that are designed for young people...but the kids are allowed to watch R rated movies at home on DVD, Netflix and a host of other media....so what use are the ratings if the adults in the home don't care enough to bother monitoring what their kids are exposed to? Then there is the internet....Wicca is now an acceptable religion...the list is endless
Is that answer enough?
I can agree with most of your observations, but exactly how is knowing someone or being homosexual considered "evil and immoral" to the point a young adult would commit these type of crimes? And being a Wicca? Seriously?

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/220#post_3504748
Her son had no "mental issues". He was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. He never exhibited any violent tendencies. He had gone shooting several times with her mother with the same guns he used. If she was concerned that he had mental problems, and could be a danger to himself or society, why would she allow him to shoot the weapons in the first place? Where did you read that the guns were unlocked? She was found in her bed with the gunshots to her head. If the kid knew where she kept them, I imagine he also knew how to unlock the safe or wherever she had them stored. Why would they be locked up in the first place? He was 20 years old, and it was just her and him living in the house. I don't keep my guns locked up, since I have all adults in my home. EWhat good are they for home protection if I had to go looking for a key, or figure out some combination just to gain access to them if I heard someone breaking into my home?
No mental issues? The latest news is saying that she was trying to pursue having the kid committed. I don't know what kind of house hold you run but when I grew up I did not have access to the gun safe. Why would they be locked up in the first place? Are you kidding with that question?

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/220#post_3504753
Let me clarify my position. Assault weapons WITH LARGE MAGAZINES have no logical purpose in the hands of the average citizen. Even the President recognizes that people should have the right to own certain weapons to protect themselves, their property, enjoy their sport, or use them for hunting. But a weapon that can hold 30+ rounds at one time?
I owned two AR's back in the 70's and 80's. Both were original Colt's. They were pre-86, and if I wanted to convert them to full-auto, it wouldn't have been hard to do. I had 30-round clips that we used to destroy cactus out in Big Bend where we went Mule Deer hunting every season. 95% of the time I had no larger than a 5-round clip in the gun when I did use it for hunting.
I imagine one of the proposal's that will be made in this Obama Committee is to restrict or eliminate access to any magazine that can hold 30 rounds of ammo or more. I can attest that the AR is a popular weapon to use for hunting - it's lightweight, it's accurate up to 250 yards, and very durable when hunting in thick brush and rough terrain. There's no logical reason for a hunter to need a 30-round magazine to hunt with. If they need that much ammo at one time, they have no business trying to kill a deer in the first place. That's the quandry. How do you restrict the size of the magazine without restricting the weapon altogether? If you have access to the weapon, it wouldn't be very hard to find "someone" selling 30-round or larger magazines. There's hundreds of thousands of them already in public hands, and they wouldn't be very difficult to reproduce. You could easily obtain them in Europe, and most likely China, and just have them shipped directly to your home.
No one is talking about the kid using an automatic weapon. And I would be willing to bet you that I could fire off 29 rounds with a 9mm beretta in about the same time you could get off 30 with an AR and be just as accurate within range. By the time you loaded another mag I'd be on my 3rd clip already. This is why your argument makes no sense to me. Because any real shooter knows this already.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/220#post_3504754
I can agree with most of your observations, but exactly how is knowing someone or being homosexual considered "evil and immoral" to the point a young adult would commit these type of crimes? And being a Wicca? Seriously?
I have no beef with homosexuality and ...LOL..it isn't contagious. It is however immoral, so is lying, cheating, stealing and a host of other things listed in scripture along with GASP! Stargazers, palm readers and witches. You know...all the "fun" stuff done and talked about in today's world.
EXAMPLE: Why in the world is it anyones business who you have relations with? Why have a parade and declare your gay?...We don't have a "I sleep with another race parade, or a I sleep with with my best friends spouse parade...or an I'm straight parade, it's just plain done to be up in your face kind of thing is all I can figure. I am not at all ashamed to sleep with my husband, but I wouldn't go do a parade and declare I do it.
You want to hear something funny, smoking, doing drugs, and drinking to oblivion are not sins according to the books.
At one time kids were simply sheltered from all of that, even sex between married people. What people did/do in their own bedrooms is/should be a personal private thing, and kids were at one time not allowed to know. Nowadays it's a free-for-all. If it feels good do it generation, and the children are not sheltered from anything. Many who claim religion don't read the scriptures, but just attend the services. They have no idea that the things on my list are even mentioned in the books, let alone declared immoral.
You asked why kids are violent...it all ties in. Immorality is the norm now.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/220#post_3504756
No one is talking about the kid using an automatic weapon. And I would be willing to bet you that I could fire off 29 rounds with a 9mm beretta in about the same time you could get off 30 with an AR and be just as accurate within range. By the time you loaded another mag I'd be on my 3rd clip already. This is why your argument makes no sense to me. Because any real shooter knows this already.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/200#post_3504645
Dude, get a life. The world doesn't revolve around whether you can light up some beer can with 400 rounds from a AR-15. There's more important things in life than worrying you can't "stock up" for some fictitious revolution your inept brain thinks could occur in this country. People are dying left and right just because you have some weird interpretation of what the 2nd Amendment intended as far as having "arms".
Your the one with a weird interpretation as to what should be or shouldn't be.....Just because you limit the size of a magazine or not isn't going to bring back all the innocent people killed by these crazy people.....Regardless if he could only fire 5 shots at a time, if he was prepared an a good shot and skilled it wouldn't matter 1 bit, that's what you fail to realize.....
It has nothing to do with lighting up beer cans, and you sound like a "hick" saying that....You argue the point of average citizens in their possession.....I guarantee I've had more training and range time on assault weapons than you could shake a stick at.....I've spent countless hours in simulators, because I was "bored" honing my shooting skills....So no I don't consider myself the "average citizen".....
I do think Flower raises a good point though in some of her posts....It has more to do with how society or kids in general are raised.....You talk about guns being left unlocked; unsecured in your home......That is the most flagrant, absent minded thing anyone would do......If you were confident on properly new how to handle your firearm there isn't any need to leave it unsecured in the event of......Who knows who might happen to stumble upon your weapons or while your not home and they are left unsecured and your home is robbed and then what......Oh yeah now your weapons could be out there "killing people".....Why, because YOU were careless in their control.......
I do admit I carry everyday; everywhere, just as I do my pack of cigarettes, but no one ever wants to draw their weapon on anyone, but I think if people knew that they guy next to them had the same defense; same heat you might think twice about a foolish act........Wouldn't you think twice about doing something stupid......

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/200#post_3504743
If my kids disrespect me, I punish them by taking away their privileges. They lose their cars, they lose the ability to go out with their friends, they lose the ability to use their computers and phones. To them, that's more devastating than me whacking them on the ass and telling them to don't do that again. You apparently don't understand what hurts the present day child more. Kids get more violent because their surroundings have become more violent. If it's not peer pressure, it's cyberbullying. Kids tend to be more arrogant and senical to their peers, their families, and their friends. Why is that? That's the magical question no one seems to be able to answer.
You apparently don't get it. I stepped into the picture with my son when he was 12. I had one occasion to assert the fact I was fully capable of physically controlling him if need be. Didn't involve hitting or spanking, just backing him into a corner and making him to what his mom was trying to tell him when he tried to push by me to leave the room. After that there was never ever a thought of needing to spank the kid. This was simply a getting to know you pissing match. Once a kid hits 5 years old or so you shouldn't have to spank them if you've done the job right up till then. There are exceptions. Worst ass whoopin I ever saw my brother get was for doing something that very easily could have gottn him and a couple friends killed when he was like 10. But next time my mom told him not to do something he listened.
First wife had a 2 year old BRAT when we met. That kid got several spankings cause that was what it took. What his mom had been missing out on was consistency. She would spank him for messing up then let him go right back to doing what she told him not to. Within a few months of us dating even the kid's grandma who was a big part of the problem remarked how big a change there had been in him. You need the ability to do what works. What I see all to often is parents who repeatedly tell their kids to do something, or not to do something and the kids just keep on going on doing what they want.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/220#post_3504748
Her son had no "mental issues". He was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. He never exhibited any violent tendencies. He had gone shooting several times with her mother with the same guns he used. If she was concerned that he had mental problems, and could be a danger to himself or society, why would she allow him to shoot the weapons in the first place? Where did you read that the guns were unlocked? She was found in her bed with the gunshots to her head. If the kid knew where she kept them, I imagine he also knew how to unlock the safe or wherever she had them stored. Why would they be locked up in the first place? He was 20 years old, and it was just her and him living in the house. I don't keep my guns locked up, since I have all adults in my home. EWhat good are they for home protection if I had to go looking for a key, or figure out some combination just to gain access to them if I heard someone breaking into my home?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/adam-lanza-motive_n_2329508.html

 

[scsinet]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/200#post_3504736
You don't get it. There's no logical reason to own an assault-type weapon. Rationalizing it by saying you like to shoot for sport or maybe for huting (why any hunter would need a 30-round clip to go hunting is beyond me), doesn't cut it. I like driving 100MPH down the highway to get where I'm going faster. Why can't I do that? Why restrict my speed? I can handle a vehicle at that speed. I promise.
Oh I get it alright. You're right, your opinions are facts, you know better, and if anyone disagrees, you are wrong, and here is a law to force you to do it my way. And I'm not rationalizing anything. My pursuits do not require an explanation to you or anyone else, as long as I do not deprive you or anyone else of life, liberty, or property.
The point many guns rights advocates are trying to make is "Who are you to decide what I need and what I don't?" Put simply, you are not in a position to do so.
Purposes, such as target shooting or certain hunting situations exist where this weapon can be useful or enjoyable. Your response (seemingly typical of gun-control advocates) to that is simply to disregard those justifications, then claim that said justifications do not exist. In other words, your response is "I know better, and I want laws to force you to do it my way." Sorry, not if I have anything to say about it.
If you were to say "I acknowledge that these responsible, legal uses exist, I do not feel that these reasons are worth keeping the status quo" you would come across quite a bit better. However, when you approach advocates of freedoms and liberties by basically saying "I know better than you what you should and should not need/do/whatever, and I intend to pass laws to force those beliefs on you," you are going to get pushback.

 

[saxman]

Tell the 27 families it's a "knee jerk" reaction.  Based on your 'technical' term of what's a "clip" and what's a "magazine", I can obviously tell your age.
I bet I'm older than you, but that's not the point.
I guarantee you that NOBODY who has replied to this thread is making light of the tragedy. What folks are having trouble with is adding more laws that won't make one single bit of difference in stopping gun violence, but it makes the poiliticians look good. However, you seem to take every chance to beat everyone over the head with your views, ans not simply on this issue. Personally, I never read your ramblings, but since I'm a gun owner, I peeked in against my better judgement.
I'm done...wish you were too.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/220#post_3504755
No mental issues? The latest news is saying that she was trying to pursue having the kid committed. I don't know what kind of house hold you run but when I grew up I did not have access to the gun safe. Why would they be locked up in the first place? Are you kidding with that question?
The latest news I read he was trying to get him enrolled in college.
When I was growing up, we had our shotguns and rifles hanging up on the wall in the den. My first gun was a .410 when I was 8. I didn't even know people locked up their guns until the 70's.
You would think that grown adults know the dangers of a gun. I know people who lock their stash in some fancy gun safe, then they have to punch in all these numbers into some combo just to get it opened. Try that with someone kicking your door down in the middle of the night.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/220#post_3504770
I have no beef with homosexuality and ...LOL..it isn't contagious. It is however immoral, so is lying, cheating, stealing and a host of other things listed in scripture along with GASP! Stargazers, palm readers and witches. You know...all the "fun" stuff done and talked about in today's world.
EXAMPLE: Why in the world is it anyones business who you have relations with? Why have a parade and declare your gay?...We don't have a "I sleep with another race parade, or a I sleep with with my best friends spouse parade...or an I'm straight parade, it's just plain done to be up in your face kind of thing is all I can figure. I am not at all ashamed to sleep with my husband, but I wouldn't go do a parade and declare I do it.
You want to hear something funny, smoking, doing drugs, and drinking to oblivion are not sins according to the books.
At one time kids were simply sheltered from all of that, even sex between married people. What people did/do in their own bedrooms is/should be a personal private thing, and kids were at one time not allowed to know. Nowadays it's a free-for-all. If it feels good do it generation, and the children are not sheltered from anything. Many who claim religion don't read the scriptures, but just attend the services. They have no idea that the things on my list are even mentioned in the books, let alone declared immoral.
You asked why kids are violent...it all ties in. Immorality is the norm now.
Depends on your definition of immoral. I know homosexuals who simply like to walk down the street holding handles like any other couple. What does that have anything to do with their bedroom antics?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/220#post_3504776

I'd like to see you shoot 3 clips from a 9mm in 10 seconds. Physically impossible.

 

[darthtang aw]

Depends on your definition of immoral.  I know homosexuals who simply like to walk down the street holding handles like any other couple.  What does that have anything to do with their bedroom antics?
Handles? Seems a bit more vulgar than holding hands.
Darth (Cover your handles) Tang

 

[darthtang aw]

I'd like to see you shoot 3 clips from a 9mm in 10 seconds. Physically impossible.
Are you trying to equal the 30 round magazine of an assault rifle? If so, I can do that without needing to even swap magazine with my two 9mm plus 4 extra shots. standard 17 round magazine for my 2 EEA sahr b6 9mm. Not extended magazines, but standard. Less than 10 seconds.