27 dead at Connecticut Elementary School

theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/240#post_3504988
Darth, I don't think that clemson is part of the anti-gun "ban em ALL" crowd. In the other thread he told us how he's gearing up to get his CCW. Thats his answer to personal defense. He's going to be one of those guys who wants to put another gun on the street. Remember?
I appreciate your humor, but I would be putting another gun on the street on my own accord. Not because I was part of the mandated new army of armed guards that a certain gun lobby is pushing for...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/240#post_3504985
Well I thought the argument was that guns don't kill people, people kill people, right? Not, "Let's come up with a solution that profits our industry another couple hundred million dollars". Think about this... There are approximately 131,000 public and private schools in the United States. If each new "Armed guard" were to purchase a police issue Glock, which runs about $600, you would have approximately 78 million spent on new weapons. Let's say each course they would have to take is another hundred bucks. There's another 13 million. Let's not forget rounds, training, maintenance; which would be another 65 million a year. On top of that, you have to hire and pay these guys, which at $20 an hour, you're looking at ($28,960 a year) 3.7 billion dollars to school districts which most are already in dire straights financially.
So in short, the NRA response to the "gun problem", is more guns, and more money spent on guns.
The NRA doesn't work like a union, they don't get paid by the gun LOL!
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member

I appreciate your humor, but I would be putting another gun on the street on my own accord.  Not because I was part of the mandated new army of armed guards that a certain gun lobby is pushing for...
Oh! Well, as long as it's on your own accord and not somebody else's it's quite alright then since I'm sure you will be a responsible gun owner correct? I mean who is anyone else here to tell you what to do with it?
You guy's are something else I tell ya.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

I appreciate your humor, but I would be putting another gun on the street on my own accord.  Not because I was part of the mandated new army of armed guards that a certain gun lobby is pushing for...
So if a school wanted a couple armed security guards you would have a problem with that? And you never answered my question. Why is it ok to protect our politicians and not our children with our tax dollars? last I checked there have been more school shootings throughout history than political assasination attempts..........
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/260#post_3504995
So if a school wanted a couple armed security guards you would have a problem with that?
Well let's see here. Where I live, we just had two districts lay off almost 20% of their teaching force. Two more districts didn't pass emergency levies in November, so they are now rumored to be laying off about 10-15% of their teachers. My own district where I went to school still has history books that end before the first Gulf War. You have to pay to play any sport except football. So yes, I would have a problem with that.
However, if you can pay for the guards salaries in the schools districts with a tax on ammo or weapons in general, I say have at it! But that would end up being around $3.7 billion a year. That means the approximate 300 million guns in the United States would each be charged around $12 a year to make it happen. If that's the direction the NRA wants to go with it, then I can get behind that. What I can't behind is an already broken and poor school system taking on another quarter million a year to pay for armed guards.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member

What I can't behind is an already broken and poor school system taking on another quarter million a year to pay for armed guards. 
Ohhh forget it!!!
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/260#post_3504999
Ohhh forget it!!!
Forget what? The right always whines and complains that we just spend, spend, spend! So, at my district, which has one high school, one middle school, and six elementary schools, you would be looking at around $240,000 a school year to pay for their services. Where do you think that money should come from? I'm not asking to be a smart alec, I'm asking because I want to know.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/260#post_3505000
Forget what?
Sorry, was going to make a point and then had to run out real quick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/260#post_3504996
Well let's see here. Where I live, we just had two districts lay off almost 20% of their teaching force. Two more districts didn't pass emergency levies in November, so they are now rumored to be laying off about 10-15% of their teachers. My own district where I went to school still has history books that end before the first Gulf War. You have to pay to play any sport except football. So yes, I would have a problem with that.
However, if you can pay for the guards salaries in the schools districts with a tax on ammo or weapons in general, I say have at it! But that would end up being around $3.7 billion a year. That means the approximate 300 million guns in the United States would each be charged around $12 a year to make it happen. If that's the direction the NRA wants to go with it, then I can get behind that. What I can't behind is an already broken and poor school system taking on another quarter million a year to pay for armed guards.
Let me get this strait because I'm really trying to understand your position here at this particular point in time.
I don't have children but I'm assuming that you do. And right now I have guns but I'm assuming that you don't. Or at least not yet.
So in order for me to enjoy my freedoms, I'm the one who has to pay in order to protect your kid, correct? Even though, you want to get a gun the odds are you will probably take the little course, learn how to properly handle a weapon and then go out and get you one. After that you will probably stick it in a small safe and keep it next to your bed and then virtually never touch it. So in order for me to enjoy my freedoms I'm going to have to be the one to pay to keep your kids safe when you come out on the cheap end even though you want to be a gun owner. Yeah, I guess I would be ok with that too if I were in your shoes. But ya know what? That's fine. I'll pay the extra money if it helps our nations youth.
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/260#post_3505001
Sorry, was going to make a point and then had to run out real quick.
Let me get this strait because I'm really trying to understand your position here at this particular point in time.
I don't have children but I'm assuming that you do. And right now I have guns but I'm assuming that you don't. Or at least not yet.
So in order for me to enjoy my freedoms, I'm the one who has to pay in order to protect your kid, correct? Even though, you want to get a gun the odds are you will probably take the little course, learn how to properly handle a weapon and then go out and get you one. After that you will probably stick in a small safe and keep it next to your bed and then virtually never touch it. So in order for me to enjoy my freadoms I'm going to have to be the one to pay to keep your kids safe when you come out on the cheap end even though you want to be a gun owner. Yeah, I guess I would be ok with that too if I were in your shoes. But ya know what? That's fine. I'll pay the extra money if it helps our nations youth.
I actually don't have kids or guns just yet.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/260#post_3505000
So, at my district, which has one high school, one middle school, and six elementary schools, you would be looking at around $240,000 a school year to pay for their services. Where do you think that money should come from? I'm not asking to be a smart alec, I'm asking because I want to know.
Apologies again, Clemson for not responding to your question.
I don't know the answer to that. The only way I could really see it happening is if we imposed a federal tax on everyone. You could just tax gun owners on purchases but the problem there is that you never know what the market is going to do. And if sales took a dramatic turn for the worse then how could we continue to pay those salaries? But then we're talking about placing more burden on folks who are barely hanging on by the skin of their teeth as it is with unemployment rates still being as high as they are. Do we just forget about them in order to help the kids?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/260#post_3504996
Well let's see here. Where I live, we just had two districts lay off almost 20% of their teaching force. Two more districts didn't pass emergency levies in November, so they are now rumored to be laying off about 10-15% of their teachers. My own district where I went to school still has history books that end before the first Gulf War. You have to pay to play any sport except football. So yes, I would have a problem with that.
However, if you can pay for the guards salaries in the schools districts with a tax on ammo or weapons in general, I say have at it! But that would end up being around $3.7 billion a year. That means the approximate 300 million guns in the United States would each be charged around $12 a year to make it happen. If that's the direction the NRA wants to go with it, then I can get behind that. What I can't behind is an already broken and poor school system taking on another quarter million a year to pay for armed guards.
First off I find the notion of charging lawful gun owners a fee for exercising their constitutional rights offensive. School districts should decide whether or not they want to hire an outside security guard or allow willing members of their staff go through enhanced CCW training. Or better yet lets cut the money we spend teaching the children of illegal aliens in their native language. That right there could cover the costs of paid security and then some.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/260#post_3505017
First off I find the notion of charging lawful gun owners a fee for exercising their constitutional rights offensive. School districts should decide whether or not they want to hire an outside security guard or allow willing members of their staff go through enhanced CCW training. Or better yet lets cut the money we spend teaching the children of illegal aliens in their native language. That right there could cover the costs of paid security and then some.
Sometimes I wish we would just take care of our own. But The United States is supposed to be a nation of open doors isn't it? Couldn't we do something else that would deprive the children who can't help their circumstance? Some of those kids may stay here and be our next pulitzer prize winner or something.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Arm the teachers! Plain and simple - let the teachers have a metal lock box with a combo and key and if they hear shots fired and want to protect themselves - let em' rip! Isn't it a right to self defense?
Let the teachers go through the gun courses - and be certified. Those teachers that want to participate get an extra 1k a year instead of paying a security guard 30k a year to do nothing but eat doughnuts and stair at the high school girls. Then there should be multiple gun certified personnel on campus to take down these little twits who think they can be the next mass murderer.
Putting security details at every school is the illusion of security. It's not true security and never will be. Locking your kids in an institution with armed guards for eight hours a day is not beneficial to their self esteem, well being, stress levels, and so on and so forth as a kid growing up. There is too much crap already going on in kids lives to have to worry about going to jail for 8 hours a day five days a week.
If you really want to do something about this "problem" that we face as a society, nip it in the bud where it really counts. Violence on television, violent video games, violent and sexual based music, tv, ... "reality" shows that are farther from reality than anything. A typical American child will witness approximately 16,000 violent deaths on television alone by their 18th birthday. If you want to do something about it - crack down on drugs in school and these s*x parties that teens are having. Crack down on bullying and create an atmosphere where being intelligent is not a "bad" thing.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I believe in that 100%. Adam Lanza and any other person like him is a product of our society. I wouldn't be surprised if things like this didn't start happening at a greater frequency as our population increases and if the media goes unchecked.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
It's an interesting idea. But even if we didn't arm all the teachers there could be a safe kept somewhere within the school and have only a few key staff members that know how to access it. Maybe even set it up to where it takes two people to open (who knows). The teachers, staff, principle...most of these people are heroes who put their lives up first for those kids. I don't think for a minute that there wouldn't be someone there willing to go through the training to be one of the individuals who can have access to a weapon that would allow for the ability to fight fire with fire for self defense. Something tells me that there would be many teachers or staff (especially now) who would volunteer without asking for more money. The process of how these people are selected could be regulated.
At least it would allow for the option to have a fighting chance.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/260#post_3505029
Sometimes I wish we would just take care of our own. But The United States is supposed to be a nation of open doors isn't it? Couldn't we do something else that would deprive the children who can't help their circumstance? Some of those kids may stay here and be our next pulitzer prize winner or something.
That's why we allow LEGAL immigration.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/260#post_3505048
How lucky we must feel to be born with the gift to live in this country. How sad it would be to be born with that gift and have it taken away from you. There is no undoing what's been done. Some just want to make it a little better for others than what it is.
Yes, we are lucky and when every one born in this country. And when those who were born here, or legally immigrated here are working and getting enough to eat we can consider helping out Mexican and South American citizens. But what happens if we keep spending billions on services to people who didn't respect our laws and entered the country illegally? Sooner or later our economy is going to be in such a state we wont be able to help our own citizens, let alone another country's.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

Yes, we are lucky and when every one born in this country. And when those who were born here, or legally immigrated here are working and getting enough to eat we can consider helping out Mexican and South American citizens. But what happens if we keep spending billions on services to people who didn't respect our laws and entered the country illegally? Sooner or later our economy is going to be in such a state we wont be able to help our own citizens, let alone another country's.
Touching on this, would you allow you neighbors to break into you house and live with you, just because your house was better? Or would you ensure your own families livilihood first then help your neighbor where you could? Just a simple question.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393788/27-dead-at-connecticut-elementary-school/260#post_3505052
Touching on this, would you allow you neighbors to break into you house and live with you, just because your house was better? Or would you ensure your own families livilihood first then help your neighbor where you could? Just a simple question.
Exactly. I have one friend and two family members I've been helping out for a while now. I'll take care of mine, others should do the same.
 
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