30 Gallon SPS Reef Build

[acrylic51]

Sorry I know it's not a joking matter......I have a couple questions as well for you......
I think the lighting is a possible bet.....That is a ton of light for a tank of your size..I...I'm not sure why you upgraded or added the 2nd fixture awhile back.....I know you stated all water change and top offs are done via RO, but have you physically verified the condition/quality of your RO unit......Does the unit have a TDS meter, is it calibrated......Have you verified water quality of your water change water.....Meaning have you ever done a complete set of tests on your make up water....Is it possible your introducing nutrients through water changes.....What type of container are you using as far as mixing your water......
I'd have to go back and look at some of your pictures from previous posts, but you state 40lbs of LR in the DT.....I know LR amount is a personal choice, but does seem like a bit of rock in the DT, but then I'm curious you are using MP10's (2) do you have any dead or settling spots within the tank......When you have removed LR from the DT in the past, when you took it from the tank did you get a lot of junk and detritus coming off the pieces you removed clouding the DT for a bit.......
I see you have a SB in the DT......How deep is it and have you performed any type of maintenance on the SB.......What size ASM.....How is the skimmer actually performing......I wouldn't call your bio load light, but I have a friend who has way more fish wise stuffed in a small tank.....and he to has the same issues, but he doesn't try to correct the issues more or less....You've been running GFO, how fast are you exhausting the GFO.....What brand carbon are you running......
On to the red bug possibility......What corals are you seeing loss of color and polyp extension.....Have you ever physically examined these corals.....

 

[acrylic51]

Sorry it's early morning and my mind is rambling......Have you ever seen pics of Sanjay's personal tank......If you haven't google the tank, and it's an amazing tank, and the last time I heard he had issues with red bugs, but you stated earlier you have good growth, and he also has excellent growth, and hasn't lost any polyp extension or coloration, and see's no real negative impact since the growth is so good.......
Makes me think if it's not an infestation the problem is more 2 fold.....Meaning there's several issues at hand.....Lighting isn't going to be the main culprit as well as water conditions.....There has to be a equal balance between the areas.....

 

[lubeck]

:laughing:  Sorry I know it's not a joking matter......I have a couple questions as well for you......
I think the lighting is a possible bet.....That is a ton of light for a tank of your size..I...I'm not sure why you upgraded or added the 2nd fixture awhile back.....I know you stated all water change and top offs are done via RO, but have you physically verified the condition/quality of your RO unit......Does the unit have a TDS meter, is it calibrated......Have you verified water quality of your water change water.....Meaning have you ever done a complete set of tests on your make up water....Is it possible your introducing nutrients through water changes.....What type of container are you using as far as mixing your water......
I have rodi with a meter and don't let it go above 2 before replacing the di I use a gray brute can for clean water and another for fresh salt water. I've never had the meter calibrated. I just checked my clean salt water from the can and it read nothing for trates or phos. I've thought of this being a potential contributer but don't think that is the case at all. Unless there is something other than phos or trates that I'm not testing for but would cause algae.
I'd have to go back and look at some of your pictures from previous posts, but you state 40lbs of LR in the DT.....I know LR amount is a personal choice, but does seem like a bit of rock in the DT, but then I'm curious you are using MP10's (2) do you have any dead or settling spots within the tank......When you have removed LR from the DT in the past, when you took it from the tank did you get a lot of junk and detritus coming off the pieces you removed clouding the DT for a bit.......
I thought for sure with 2 mp10 I wouldn't get build up on the rocks but I do more than you would think. I try to blow them off daily. When moving the lr I do get a bit of detris but do blow off almost everyday. One of the other biggest reasons I had to blow them off daily is because my sand was always out of control I have since removed most of the sand bed to half bare bottom on the front half of the tank and about 2" on the back half.
I see you have a SB in the DT......How deep is it and have you performed any type of maintenance on the SB.......What size ASM.....How is the skimmer actually performing......I wouldn't call your bio load light, but I have a friend who has way more fish wise stuffed in a small tank.....and he to has the same issues, but he doesn't try to correct the issues more or less....You've been running GFO, how fast are you exhausting the GFO.....What brand carbon are you running......
Asm mini. It does ok but some weeks I get a good cup full and some times only a inch or two worth. I'm considering an upgrade. I use black diamond carbon and usually replace the gfo every two weeks.
On to the red bug possibility......What corals are you seeing loss of color and polyp extension.....Have you ever physically examined these corals.....
Not really, no. It's hard to really tell.
What about putting a deep sand bed in my sump? I would do that. I would consider putting more sand in the DT but it must be big granuals like reef flakes? Do you know anyone on the boards in San Jose that could take my flame angel? Any other suggestions or things I should try? I really wish I could feed more. Do you think my clean up crew is adequate

 

[acrylic51]

Honestly the first thing I would do is double check your meter on your RO unit......I'm not 100% sure I trust their calibration directly from factory.....I had bought 3 and my buddy bought 1 all at the same time, and I had bought calibration solution and low and behold they varied quite a bit.......Even something as simple of a know good handheld meter comparing it to your meter would work as well.......
I know we had tried a little experiment a while back with pulling rock from the DT and putting them in a separate container and looking for PO4.....I don't remember off the top of my head as to what was the reading.....How long did you let them sit in the separate container as well....
When you stated that you blow the rockwork off daily and still get tons of junk.....If your sand is/was blowing around a good bit that would explain some of what your seeing.....It seems it takes forever to get sand out of rock....The rock you purchased or currently have...Was it purchased live from a lfs, or dry rock........
Another thing has me curious is you mentioned your ASM mini.....I've never used the mini, but the G1 has always been a consistent performer for me.....I'm wondering or inquiring if you run anything such as filter socks or any type of mechanical filtration.....I'm not sure that your sandbed is your issue....Being that it's a relatively newer setup.....Not that it's impossible, but low on my list of thinking.....I'm still leaning more towards a rock issue "leaching" PO4.....Being that you stated you test and the levels are off the chart, so obviously it's being consumed and your just getting residual reading.....(my .02)......I'm rather curious have you done any reading on Lanthium Chloride dosing......
As far as running a RDSB in your sump.....I don't see how it would or could hurt.....IMHO a plus to do it there for the simple fact if it does start to give you issues you can isolate it from the rest of the system and keep rolling.....In the display tank just makes it harder to remove it......
As far as CUC.....I don't have much to comment there.....Off the top of my head I do remember you listing them.....I'm not big on certain CUC members, but that's more personal.....I do believe most if not all over do it when it comes to CUC for their size systems.....You always see people dumping tons of hermits and snails in their systems and technically they don't have the real estate to support all of them so it's a waste and they die......To much IMO always isn't better in this case.....
I would honestly look at 2 options at this point.......Either look into Lanthium Chloride dosing, or consider taking the rock you have down in your sump and acid bathe it.........I would consider doing the rock in phases though.....Not all at once.

 

[lubeck]

Shawn I'm embarrassed to say I never got around to doing the phos test on my rocks. I will though how much water and rocks and how long should I leave them in?
I will look into getting a tds meter but I did just check the clean batch and didn't get any phos or trate reading.
What does the R stand for in rdsb? Remote?
As far as the skimmer goes, you convinced me I should go with the mini due to the size of my tank It should be in this thread somewhere.
I occasionally use a sock have used them more recently but stopped for a few months
Need to read about lanthium dosing
I got my rock from lfs.

 

[spanko]

So you were battling a HA outbreak before that you may have under some control now correct?
Is your concern now the SPS coral PE and color or have I missed something else?

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubeck http:///t/387844/30-gallon-sps-reef-build/460#post_3507304
Shawn I'm embarrassed to say I never got around to doing the phos test on my rocks. I will though how much water and rocks and how long should I leave them in? It doesn't have to be a ton of rock....Maybe a 5 gallon bucket with a couple pieces of rock and water movement.....I'd check it a couple days.....If there's no phosphate in the initial water in the bucket and you add the LR to the bucket if there is phos leaching it will leach until the 2 are in equilibrium with each other.....That right there would tell you if you have a leaching problem or to look elsewhere.....
I will look into getting a tds meter but I did just check the clean batch and didn't get any phos or trate reading. How do you know when your RO/DI honestly needs serviced......
What does the R stand for in rdsb? Remote? Yes.....In my terms or definition it would be remote, because you should/could be able to shut the water supply or feed off to it in your sump if need be correct.....That way if the sand bed does or would become an issue, and could see that unless your dumping cans of food into the fuge and letting it sit there and decay, but can't see you having issues with it going bad......Also more a aesthetic thing for me.....I hate seeing DSB inside the DT and the bands of "ugliness" the grow in the sand bed.
As far as the skimmer goes, you convinced me I should go with the mini due to the size of my tank It should be in this thread somewhere. I do remember the skimmer choice.......I'm not questioning the ASM.....I was curious as far as what your pulling volume wise.....Has the skimmer been cleaned.....Keeping the skimmer clean is rather 2 fold and somewhat not thought about....Cleaning to me is air lines, pump itself, and sometimes people just pull the skimmer cup and dump it, but you also have to remember that skimmer neck has to be kept clean to consistently get good, stable foam production.....Letting the neck gunk up does you no good.....
I occasionally use a sock have used them more recently but stopped for a few months I don't see anything wrong with using a sock, just as others like to use filter floss.....Some prefer to use nothing at all, but in my mind you at some point need something to remove larger particulates from the water column......Unless water flow is at it's optimum that everything stays suspended till its totally consumed and that just doesn't happen very often IMO......
Need to read about lanthium dosing Definitely worth a read.....Not saying it is the answer, because at this stage we don't know what the problem is.......On that note testing the rock as suggested would either indicate this is or isn't the underlying problem.....If it turns out to be leaching this method could be used/dosed in the tank, but it's not something that can just be dumped in the system and your filter socks would get a work out and you'd have to be diligent if you opt this route......On the other hand if "again" the rock is the culprit, and you choose to pull the rock from the system.....The acid bath will tackle that problem, but you have to be prepared it will kill; eat all life form from your LR....That's 1 angle, or you could pull the LR from the tank and again dose Lanthium Chloride and Phosphate is bound that way.....I would assume that if the LR is the issue, probably the easiest way to solve it IMO would be the acid bath.....The LC approach would be long, tedious and time consuming......
I got my rock from lfs.

 

[lubeck]

So you were battling a HA outbreak before that you may have under some control now correct?
Is your concern now the SPS coral PE and color or have I missed something else?
Yes Henry I have a handle on it but it is not completely gone yet or has stopped growing but slowed dramatically. Yes on the PE and color too. Plus my issues with my angel among other things I don't think my filtration is enough

 

[lubeck]

Shawn I have a tds meter on my rodi unit. I think I'm going to add a DSb to my fuge, I could make it the entire length and width?
I need to do a better job cleaning the inside of the skimmer. I just recently scraped lots of gunk but can't reach all of it because I can't fit my hand in there.

 

[lubeck]

Do I need to put a heater in with the rocks when testing for phos? Spanko do you have any ideas of getting better PE and color on the sps? Anyone want to take my angel?

 

[acrylic51]

It shouldn't matter if there's a heater in there or not......just a small PH to keep the water circulating......You said you have polyp extension at night, but not during the daytime when lights are on.....

 

[lubeck]

1 year pic of my tank! Well it's been a year since I set up my 33 gal.

 

[novahobbies]

Hair algae or not...that's STILL a pretty tank! Looks good!

 

[acrylic51]

Agree with Nova......

 

[lubeck]

Thanks guys. The pic sucks and so does hair algae. But the corals are still growing like crazy

 

[lubeck]

Well I plan on soaking a few rocks this weekend to see if I have any leaching of phos. If I have it right I assume if the water I put the rocks in is fresh SW reading no phos and then wait two days? Or so and see if there is a reading ?
I have another theory, when I left for two weeks in dec I turned the lights down to 50 percent to help minimize HA and it worked it wasn't bad at all and didn't grow really. Since I've been back the HA has gone crazy again and I did turn the lights up to 90 percent It is going out of control right now so I did turn down photo period to 8 hours per day from 10 hours. I do think lighting is the culprit but not the only one because I had HA before I upgraded my kessils. That's not to say my 100 watts of LEDs before didn't cause the HA after I stopped dosing carbon. I now have 180 watts. I've seen tanks with huge 400 watt mhs
And they don't have problems. What else could it be? Water is great 0 tds. My phos is below .05 and trates are below 4
. I also bought three snails and a sea hare (which I will give away if he gets through all the HA ) I also got a fighting conch for the sand. I also purchased 30 lbs of reef flakes for the DT since I removed most of it and will add a 4" DSb in my sump with the remaining. All of this is in effort to help manage the nutrients and build a stronger bioload
I will say this my friends I'm at the end of the rope here and if I cannot find out what the issue is then I plan to do a complete tear down of the tank and start over. I've had enough.

 

[acrylic51]

I won't disagree lighting might be part of the issue, but I think the "ISSUE" is phosphate, and it's clinging somewhere.....With you reducing the light source you "stated" it didn't increase, but was "there" which means something is feeding it......Was your tank being fed while you were gone.......
Your lighting schedule is to long as well IMO.....10hrs is way overkill regardless what type lighting your using, and 8 could be excessive as well.....You could easily get by with 6 hours of lighting and see no ill affects to your corals....Schedule your lighting schedule when your at home or when it can actually be enjoyed......
Any results from soaking......

 

[lubeck]

Yes the tank was fed while I was away. I will be throwing the rocks in a tub after dinner. I'm having an issue on which rock to choose because all my rock has corals on them except for the base rock. I do have plenty down in the sump that still have some HA on from when the piece was in the display tank so I'm problem going to use a couple of them.

 

[lubeck]

Shawn. I just checked the rocks tonight for phos and I'm really no getting a reading at all. Now I only put two small pieces but they are both pretty porus and have HA on them. Do I need to wait longer or can I rule them out? There's always that chance that I didn't get the rocks that are actually leaching the phos though. I don't know anymore. Luckily I did get a sea hare that eats HA. I've changed my light cycle and changed my mp10s back to being on each side which I think is giving me a lot better flow now.
I went to the lfs tonight because I ran out of phos tests and ended up getting a good ball of cheato........I also couldn't resist and picked up a rosé bubble tip anemone for my clowns. I will do some pics sometime this week.
I will be getting my sand in tomorrow and will add it in 3 stages to the DT. I will have a lot left and plan to put a DSb in my sump. While I do that I really need some ideas in how to fix my plumbing since I will need to pull the sump out anyway for the DSb I'm having the hardest time figuring out what the dimensions of my two stand pipes are 1/2 for the return and 3/4 for the drain. I have to change out the return because currently the pipe is only rises to 1/3 inside the tank. I prevent any back flow when I do my cleanings with check valve which I know isn't safe so I figure I would fix all the plumbing when I do my sand bed in the sump

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubeck http:///t/387844/30-gallon-sps-reef-build/460#post_3510285
Shawn. I just checked the rocks tonight for phos and I'm really no getting a reading at all. Now I only put two small pieces but they are both pretty porus and have HA on them. Do I need to wait longer or can I rule them out? There's always that chance that I didn't get the rocks that are actually leaching the phos though. I don't know anymore. Luckily I did get a sea hare that eats HA. I've changed my light cycle and changed my mp10s back to being on each side which I think is giving me a lot better flow now.
I went to the lfs tonight because I ran out of phos tests and ended up getting a good ball of cheato........I also couldn't resist and picked up a rosé bubble tip anemone for my clowns. I will do some pics sometime this week.
I will be getting my sand in tomorrow and will add it in 3 stages to the DT. I will have a lot left and plan to put a DSb in my sump. While I do that I really need some ideas in how to fix my plumbing since I will need to pull the sump out anyway for the DSb I'm having the hardest time figuring out what the dimensions of my two stand pipes are 1/2 for the return and 3/4 for the drain. I have to change out the return because currently the pipe is only rises to 1/3 inside the tank. I prevent any back flow when I do my cleanings with check valve which I know isn't safe so I figure I would fix all the plumbing when I do my sand bed in the sump
Depending how much water vs rock you have together, but no 1 day or 1/2 a day isn't enough....It could take several days, because what will happen if it is a phos issue is that it will start to leach out into the water till it reaches equilibrium....Meaning what's in the rock is equal to what's in the water......Then if you would do a complete water change you again would show no phos and then it would start the leaching process again......I would let the rock sit for a couple days and just monitor it and see if you detect anything.....I don't think there's anyway to actually pinpoint which rock or if it is the rock leaching, but I would say the HA would be a good indicator and where I'd start at.......
What type of sand are you putting in your DT........Not sure what you need exactly on your plumbing work.....Shoot a pic and I'm sure it could easily be done.....