A Little Help on PH Again

stumpdog

stumpdog

Member
I have been having some problems with my PH being to low, around 7.7. The tank has been up for a little over a month now. I am preparing to do a 10 gallon water change on my 55 gallon with a 15 gallon sump. I have been mixing the 10 gallons using 2 powerheads for about 12 hours. The salinity and temp are both fine. I decided to check the PH of the new water. It registers at 7.7. Is this the level that new water should be at? I thought it would be higher and help balance things out? It is DI water from the LFS. Any ideas would be great. I am going to hold off doing the water change until I hear back from you all.
Tanks-
Jeremy
 
birdy

birdy

Active Member
If 7.7 is the pH of your water with the saltmix add in then it is too low. What type of saltmix are you using, what type of test kit? If I were you the first thing I would do is double check by taking a sample to the LFS. If all that checks out then I would add some pH buffer to your saltmix and get it in the correct range.
 
stumpdog

stumpdog

Member
I am using IO and it is a Salifert test kit. Why would my Ph be low. I've read past threads, but I think I have covered the bases, but I guess I haven't. I thought PH buffers weren't good to use. I've read that you should find the cause of the problem and fix it. Is it different with Ph??
Tanks-
Jeremy
 
squidd

squidd

Active Member
If you have extreamly acidic source water then the "buffers" in the IO may not be concentrated enough to raise PH to "normal"8.2-8.3 and would have to be supplemented...
What is the PH of your source water? RO will not raise a low ph value.
Secondly double check your test kit (confirm results with known PH water) or have independent test on your water (LFS)
:cool:
 
birdy

birdy

Active Member
Well until you get the test double checked I wouldn't rule that out, but it is probably just a bad batch of IO. Buffers are fine to use to raise pH, you just don't want to add it directly to the tank and raise the pH too quickly. If I were you I would add the buffer to the makeup water and you will be fine, we all have to use something to raise the pH of the water be it buffers, kalkwasser (this is what I use), or water changes (but water changes will only work if the pH is in the correct level to begin with).
 
broomer5

broomer5

Active Member
Jeremy
Did you aerate the DI water from the LFS before mixing the IO saltmix ?
If not .. this could explain the low pH.
It's happened to me before.
Aerating the freshwater BEFORE mixing salt, then aerating the the mixed saltwater AFTER mixing are two of the most important things I learned about mixing saltwater.
DI water will have a near 7.0 neutral pH.
Sometimes it's even in the high 6's
If the LFS runs their fresh DI water straight into plastic jugs, then cap it, there's a very good chance it may contain higher than desired levels of CO2 gas. All depends on the tapwater they have.
Neutral pH water AND higher levels of CO2 gas will draw your mixed saltwater pH down. Right down.
 
stillfrodo

stillfrodo

Member
Stump,
I have had the same problem with 2 diff batches of IO I bought. One was low mg and low ph. The other was low ph. I did what broomer said arerated before and after. I didn't know to aerate it at the time but I did it to make sure the salt dissolved. I am using RO/DI water and every tank I make of saltwater that I make the ph doesn't get above 7.7-7.8. I use the salifert test kits also. My ph in the tank hovers around 7.8 in the morning to 8.0 at night. Weird somebody else is experiencing the same problem. Alk is is around 3.50 with a new salt mix and calcium hovers around 300. I do a 5-10 percent water change per week but low ph still bothers me. From what I have heard from reading the board Thomas lost a whole bunch of livestock and the IO is suspect. Very scary and they spout how its one of the best salt mixes to use. I'm not so sure anymore.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
As I understand it salt mixes are buffered for tap water. Perhaps that is why the ph is low with DI.
Also, It is very normal to have falling ph after a month or so of running. My current 55g went down to 7.4 or so. Although I did add some baking soda, the main thing I did was just to let the system run. After an additional month or two of running, the ph stayed (and has stayed at) 8.4. I also added plant life (macro algaes). If you don't have any then add some form of plant life. Reducing the carbon dioxide (which plant life does) helps ph.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Another common problem is either adding water to the salt mix (you need to add the mix to the water) or not immediately vigorously stirring the water after salt is added.
 
stumpdog

stumpdog

Member
Thanks for all the replies. I will make a trip to the LFS tomorrow.
broomer- I didn't aerate the water before I mixed it. How long should I before I add the salt?
Bang- I added the salt to the water, not the water to the salt. It has been mixing for nearly 36 hours now. I am going to check it again and see if anything has changed.
Bob- So after some time your tank's Ph came up on its own or did you add anything? I do have some plant life in the tank but not much at the moment.
Will a PH of 7.7ish hurt my 2 clowns?
Tomorrow task is to try and correct this problem. I may be posting several times under here tomorrow. Any help would be appreciated.
Tanks-
Jeremy
 
broomer5

broomer5

Active Member
Jeremy,
I try to aerate the freshwater overnight, then add the saltmix, stir with large plastic spoon, add heater/powerhead, let it mmix/aerate again overnight , then do the water change the following day.
Tomorrow task is to try and correct this problem
One word of caution.
It's okay to start a program to raise your pH today, such as beginning to dose a pH buffer .... but don't try to correct the low pH in one day. A week or two would be better.
A pH of 7.7 is considered low by many, and should be raised to 8.0 to 8.3 in my opinion. But do it sowly.
pH shock to the fish by raising it too fast is far more risky to the fish and water chemistry than having it remain at 7.7
 
stumpdog

stumpdog

Member
Thanks broomer I didn't think I would be able to raise it all the way in one day, but slowly. I figured it would be like raising salinity, a little here a little there. I will post later on and let you know the results. Are there any buffer products to avoid and ones you recommend?
Tanks-
Jeremy
 
stillfrodo

stillfrodo

Member
Stump it still hovers around 7.8 in the am to 8.0 in the evening. I buff with baking soda twice a week. I have to watch last time I tried to raise ph I raised my alk through the roof. In turn calcium went down you know the deal. I finally have calcium at 400 and alk at around 3.50. My tank is relatively new only 8 weeks now. Hoping with time ph will raise on its own. I'm gonna maybe get some kind of plant life this weekend and plant in open areas of my sand. I have 2 clowns 4 green chromis in mine. Clowns right now don't seem to be affected. They are extremely active and swimming and eating well. Weird I know ph is important but for some reason my LFS which I take thier advice with a grain of salt (they tried to sell me a tang and a flame angel after the tank was only up 4 weeks) not to worry about ph that alk is only important. I don't agree with that and I test everyday for ph. Like I said right now its down even after water changes. Not affecting anything so we'll see in time. Gonna buy a new bucket of IO this weekend and we'll see. Hope I was some help.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member

Originally posted by stumpdog
...
Bob- So after some time your tank's Ph came up on its own or did you add anything? I do have some plant life in the tank but not much at the moment.
Ph stabilized on it's own. The same water in my macro algae tank never had ph lower than 8.4. I would add all the plant life you can get your hands on. Also, I highly recommend you let the system run. You could wind up trying to correct things that in a month will be corrected all by themselves.
Will a PH of 7.7ish hurt my 2 clowns?

Not if they are already used to it.
Main problem is aclimating new fish to different ph values.
 
stumpdog

stumpdog

Member
broomer-
What would the Ph of aerated DI water be (unmixed)?
What would the Ph of aerated RO water be (unmixed)?
Tanks-
Jeremy
 
stumpdog

stumpdog

Member
I went to the LFS and did several water tests.
My tank water was 7.7 right were I thought.
The mixed water I am preparing to add to the tank is 7.7
The DI and RO water from the store straight out of the faucet is 6.8-7.2.
What does all this mean?
The lady suggested using something called ArgaMilk (SP?) she said it was similar to kalk and would help bring my Ph up. Is this true? She said that the LR would suck the calcium out of my water and this would cause Ph to drop. Does this make sense?
What should I do now?
I purchased 10 more gallons of DI water. I am going to add the currently mixed water to the tank. The Ph is the same in both so I don't think it can hurt. With the new DI water I will aerate it until the morning and then add the salt and then aerate again for 24 hrs, per broomer. How does all this sound?
Tanks-
Jeremy
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator

Originally posted by stumpdog
The lady suggested using something called ArgaMilk (SP?) she said it was similar to kalk and would help bring my Ph up. Is this true? She said that the LR would suck the calcium out of my water and this would cause Ph to drop. Does this make sense?
The lady is wrong on all counts.
 
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