All of this over cartoons?

[cowfishrule]

i say wipe 'em all off the face of the earth and build an amusement park over there.
trying to be nice, and biting my tongue, but enough is enough. sure, not all muslims are terrorists, but they dont grow on terrorist trees, do they? you dont see australians flying to the mid-east to learn how to blow themselves up, do you?
the US was rained down on during wwII for not stepping in earlier. then we got stuck, stoned, and snuck in pearl harbor? how did wwII end? 2 large "kabooms"
i say dust off the b-42's and check the oil.
i dont promote hate or violence- as a new dad, i cant imagine what it will be like in his world 15-20 years from now. i say put an end to all this fighting:
a: tell isreal that we no longer support them- they are on their own
b: tell the rest of the mid-east we are locked n loaded, so cool your jets
just my .02

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by COWFISHRULE
i say wipe 'em all off the face of the earth and build an amusement park over there.
trying to be nice, and biting my tongue, but enough is enough. sure, not all muslims are terrorists, but they dont grow on terrorist trees, do they? you dont see australians flying to the mid-east to learn how to blow themselves up, do you?
the US was rained down on during wwII for not stepping in earlier. then we got stuck, stoned, and snuck in pearl harbor? how did wwII end? 2 large "kabooms"
i say dust off the b-42's and check the oil.
i dont promote hate or violence- as a new dad, i cant imagine what it will be like in his world 15-20 years from now. i say put an end to all this fighting:
a: tell isreal that we no longer support them- they are on their own
b: tell the rest of the mid-east we are locked n loaded, so cool your jets
just my .02
You are correct..we no longer fight wars to win...we fight them based on polls, etc. We no longer can reamin focused for long as a nation...too many wagon jumpers.

 

[chipmaker]

Whats a B-42? I assume you mean B-52......and if so, there is no need to dust em off as they are in continued service 24/7......altough if any are carrying nukes remains to be knownm but I would not be afraid to bet we have some aircraft flying the route complete with nukes on board somewhere....or a few nuclear powered subs complete with nuke type warhewads perfcectly able to reach all the regions that would be nice to turn to glass....

 

[chipmaker]

I think I have an idea that would cause those lunatics to go into such a frenzy it would be like a shark feeding frenzy. Relabel some cans of Vienna sausages to make it look like they are from the Sunni tribe. Do the same with some bags of pork skins, label them from yet another warring faction that hates the sunni, then do a massive air drop of those cans and bags all over every muslim nation......At the least, they get a free meal and or snack.....at the best, they wipe each other out..During our stay in Saudi Arabia during Desert Storm we were expressly forbidden to receive any pork items from home........so we did not infringe on the beliefs of the host nation of Saudi Arabia...They also prevented us fropm having playboy mags and pork products in Kuwait once we regained possession oof it as well, even though playboy and hustlers cold be found at various market places under the table for sale to the local muslims...From what I hear told they are not even allowed to touch a pig, or get pig blood on them, and m ost wil not even look on a pig, so why not round up a bunch of those wild javelina's from the southwest and that largew number of wild hogs in the south east and do a massive airdrop of hogs in all the major towns of the mid east areas......I'm for eliminating the muslims at a maximum or at a minimum round every last one of them up and put em all in one country and keep em there.......France would be a good candidate for the place to house them all in. Just when is the USA going to recognize its not a relgion anymore its a cult and a terrorist cult at that, so the so called muslim faith needs to be outlawed and made non exisitent in the usa if they want to keep peace and remain safe......The muslims are nothing more than short fused animals just looking for any reason to rampage, pillaeage and burn.....

 

[1journeyman]

Let's not turn this into a Anti "All Muslim" thread. Besides not being constructive, it will get locked....
Has anyone heard any American Muslim groups denouncing the hate mongering going on in the Middle East right now? That's a serious question... I haven't, but it may just be the news media isn't picking up on it.
I ask because I'd like to see that. If we, as Americans, are to believe that Islam can exist peacefully in this world then we need to see a LOT more muslims denouncing these fanatics.

 

[jon321]

There is a difference between solving a problem and being outright barbaric about it. Theres no doubt war is the only answer, I believe Hitler, described it best when he said, "these people can only be reasoned with after you have knocked out their teeth", describing the British mind you, but this quote kind of comes into play today.
And on the topic of WW2, there really isnt much difference between terrorist attacks on 7-11 and Japanese attacks at Pearl Harbor. Radical militants, trying to brake the back of another nation out of hate, gladly dying for their cause, even the concept of the suicide bomber, and crashing airplanes into the enemy.
You can really see how America has changed. Three years after Pearl Harbor 2,700,000 Japanese are dead, over 90% of the countries population is casualties, and the amount of buildings left standing you can count on one hand.
Jon

 

[scubadoo]

STATEMENT REJECTING TERRORISM
As American Muslims and scholars of Islam, we wish to restate our conviction that peace and justice constitute the basic principles of the Muslim faith. We wish again to state unequivocally that neither the al-Qaeda organization nor Usama bin Laden represents Islam or reflects Muslim beliefs and practice. Rather, groups like al-Qaeda have misused and abused Islam in order to fit their own radical and indeed anti-Islamic agenda. Usama bin Laden and al-Qaeda's actions are criminal, misguided and counter to the true teachings of Islam. We call on people of all faiths not to judge Islam by the actions of a few.
We believe in justice and peace for both Israelis and Palestinians. We are convinced that security for Israel can only be achieved by justice for Palestinians. Today, a modicum of justice requires the establishment of an independent Palestinian state through the exercise of Palestinian self-determination. We believe that the continued occupation of Palestinian territories, and Israel's repeated disregard of international law, have made life in the occupied territories unbearable. We say most clearly, however, that the killing of innocent civilians, whether Christian, Muslim, or Jewish, is always wrong and is forbidden in Islamic law and ethics. Illegitimate means can never be justified by a desirable or noble goal.
On this first anniversary of the tragedy of September 11, we call on all people of conscience to denounce violence and to work peacefully for the creation of a better world. We also urge our government leaders to work for peace, justice, liberty, and democracy around the globe.
Signatures:
Name Affiliation/Institution*
CSID Board Members (12):
Radwan Masmoudi Center for the Study of Islam & Democracy (CSID)
Abdulwahab Alkebsi Center for the Study of Islam & Democracy (CSID)
Louay Safi Center for Balanced Development
Muqtedar Khan Adrian College
Jamal Barzinji International Institute for Islamic Thought
Abdulaziz Sachedina University of Virginia
Louis J. Cantori University of Maryland, Baltimore County
Charles E. Butterworth University of Maryland
John L. Esposito Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding,
Georgetown University
Numerous other Muslims signed this letter/statement

 

[scubadoo]

The information is out there for those that wish to find it,,,,
Muslims Rally Against Terror
On May 14, the Free Muslims and 80 other supporting organizations sent a message to radical Muslims and supporters of terrorism that we reject them and that we will defeat them.
Muslims against terrorism and extremism
The Free Muslims Coalition is a nonprofit organization made up of American Muslims and American Arabs of all backgrounds who feel that religious violence and terrorism have not been fully rejected by the Muslim community in the post 9-11 era.
Free Muslims was created to eliminate broad base support for Islamic extremism and terrorism and to strengthen secular democratic institutions in the Middle East and the Muslim World by supporting Islamic reformation efforts.
Free Muslims promotes a modern secular interpretation of Islam which is peace-loving, democracy-loving and compatible with other faiths and beliefs. Free Muslims' efforts are unique; it is the only mainstream American-Muslim organization willing to attack extremism and terrorism unambiguously. Unfortunately most other Muslim leaders and organizations believe that when it comes to terrorism, the end justifies the means.
Other Americans have spoken up against terrorism, but never before has this message come with such clarity from Muslims or Arabs. Muslims are the only ones who can solve the problem of terror in Islam, and sadly until the founding of this Coalition, they were the only group who had not definitively spoken up against the use of terror.
Please join Free Muslims. We welcome all, whether Muslim, Christian or Jewish.
Taking our religion back one Muslim at a time
We believe in the re-interpretation of Islam for the 21st century where terrorism is not justified under any circumstances.
We believe in the separation of religion and state.
We believe that democracy is the best form of government.
We believe in the promotion of secularism in all forms of political activity.
We believe that equality for women is an inalienable right.
We believe that religion is a personal relationship between the individual and his or her God and is not to be forced on anyone.

 

[1journeyman]

Scuba.. I've seen that info, or info like that, before.
What I'm wondering about is info specifically defending "Free Speech" in the press regarding the death threats, protests, Embassy stormings, etc. over the recent political cartoons.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Scuba.. I've seen that info, or info like that, before.
What I'm wondering about is info specifically defending "Free Speech" in the press regarding the death threats, protests, Embassy stormings, etc. over the recent political cartoons.
THought you meant violence in general. I've not read anything yet regarding any statements.

 

[happyvac]

I can't respect a religion that calls for harming others.

 

[socal57che]

I'm not necessarily trying to stir the pot here, but Christianity was spread by the sword as was Islam. And Christianity has it's share of fruitcakes, too. (remember Waco and who could forget Mr. Jones?)
There were reports of Muslim clerics being stoned for trying to stop the violence. They're not all psychos. No matter where you go or what religion/faith you look at there will always be the people who just want to worship and not be bothered and the psychotic fruitcakes with automatic weapons. It's just the way it is. I for one will not condemn all Muslims for the acts of what may seem like many, but are really just a few. By number isn't Islam the most populous religion? They can't all be bad people.

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by Jon321
terrorist attacks on 7-11
Jon
I know it's just a typo.....but we all know the 7-11 stores are safe from Islamic terrorism.

Just to keep it light

 

[cowfishrule]

no way am i looking to bash islam or promote violence-
i am anti-religion, but im not going to step on you if you believe in allah, christ, etc. if your into it, hey, thats cool with me.
but i do have beef when a religious belief is so strong that the next step is violence. there is no need for it. what does it accomplish? i know that if i truely stuck to my religious background (raised roman catholic), and i saw a cartoon of god, im mature enough to know that it is a cartoon and not burn down my neighbor's house.
we will never have peace as long as we have those that believe in violence. if you burn buildings because a cartoon insulted your God, then perhaps you really should join him.
Like, when those cops were found not guilty of beating rodney king- the residents of LA burned down their own neighborhoods- good for them- shows how intelligent they are.
so my comments equal this:
if you want peace, eliminate those that are against it, or, let them continue in their own little world, and if the violence spreads, punish them severely- there are 6 billion of us on this earth, and absolutely no room or tolerence for violence.
also, if im correct, the b-42 was the flying fortress- a mega-bomber used during wwII.

 

[jon321]

Originally Posted by COWFISHRULE
also, if im correct, the b-42 was the flying fortress- a mega-bomber used during wwII.
Actually the B-42 was an experimental jet bomber during WW2, only 2 were ever built. It carried only 900kg of bombs. I think what you are thinking of is the B-17 Flying Fortress with 1000's built, carrying over 6000kg of bombs or the B-29 Superfortress which was used to drop the two atomic bombs on Japan in '45.
Jon

 

[hagfish]

Originally Posted by socal57che
I'm not necessarily trying to stir the pot here, but Christianity was spread by the sword as was Islam. And Christianity has it's share of fruitcakes, too. (remember Waco and who could forget Mr. Jones?)
There were reports of Muslim clerics being stoned for trying to stop the violence. They're not all psychos. No matter where you go or what religion/faith you look at there will always be the people who just want to worship and not be bothered and the psychotic fruitcakes with automatic weapons. It's just the way it is. I for one will not condemn all Muslims for the acts of what may seem like many, but are really just a few. By number isn't Islam the most populous religion? They can't all be bad people.
In defense of Christianity, for the most part it has not been spread by violence. If you read the New Testament where The Christian church begins you will not see people being led to Christ through violence. And later in the crusades and other instances, just because someone says they are a Christian doesn't make it so. These people who claim to be Christians, but don't follow through with the doctrine in their actions are often heretics and cult leaders and when they say they follow Jesus, it is not the Jesus of the New Testament.
Now, in general you have a similar situation with Muslims. There will be heresy in the muslim faith as well. And there will be Muslims who say they follow Muslim practices as the Koran teaches, but it is based on misinterpretation and words taken out of context and used in a way that better suits their personal desires. But, Islamic teaching does tend to be more violent that Christianity. Muhammed himself killed many I believe. Jesus wouldn't even harm his enemies and even healed them. And therefore it is confusing to me that a Muslim would accept Jesus as a prophet of Allah when His teachings are not in line with Muhammed's.

 

[cowfishrule]

Originally Posted by Jon321
Actually the B-42 was an experimental jet bomber during WW2, only 2 were ever built. It carried only 900kg of bombs. I think what you are thinking of is the B-17 Flying Fortress with 1000's built, carrying over 6000kg of bombs or the B-29 Superfortress which was used to drop the two atomic bombs on Japan in '45.
Jon

b52, b42, b17- i get them confused- makes me feel like im playing bingo
good look on the correction, though

 

[tatoush]

I would suggest that people commenting based on their personal experienes with individuals of the Muslim faith take the initiative to understand what the religion is based on, and not derive opinions from one instance or what the bias media portrays. It doesn't pay to be closed-minded, it gets you no where, kind of like our countries foreign policies. We go around preaching democracy throughout the world, and would probably like to see little photo-copied america's everywhere, but that doesn't always work for the better. Case and Point : the past elections in which hamas was elected... It will be interesting to see what comes out of this!
Lev.

 

[cowfishrule]

Originally Posted by tatoush
bias media

you got that right!

 

[jon321]

Originally Posted by tatoush
I would suggest that people commenting based on their personal experienes with individuals of the Muslim faith take the initiative to understand what the religion is based onLev.
Not meaning to discredit you, just playing devils advocate here, but does it really matter what the religion is based on when in practise that is not how it seems to be interpreted by a large volume of people? For example, I doubt anyone would say communism is bad in theory, it 'should' be the ideal society, the problem is, it just doesnt work that way in practise.
Jon