All of this over cartoons?

[petieaztec]

Originally Posted by Jmick
My point is that Christian nations have committed the worst atrocities over last 300 years. The Native Americans were deemed as sub human by the invading Christians and were put to the sword. The Jews were looked at much the same by the Germans.
don't put all germans in that catagory. most of the soliders were only fighting for their country! a lot of my family members died on both sides of the war. Hitler and a few of his henchmen did those hateful crimes to the jewish people.

 

[darth tang]

Besides what does the past of certain times in christianity have to do with TODAY! We are talking about Muslims rioting over a cartoon now. Not what or who has done worse in the past. The christian religion has evolved into a generally peaceful religion. The Koran and it's followers are starting to, but the majority apparently haven't moved that way. That is the point.
But since you are attacking the Christian religion, maybe I should riot and burn down your home....since this action is acceptable still in TODAY'S world.

 

[jmick]

This thread is about how violent and dangerous people of the Islamic faith are and my point is that Christian Nations and the people of those nations have been the ones to perpetrate the worst acts of violence and greed against people of different faiths (whether its been for land/oil/power) and these atrocities are often in the name of god. If Arabs were the ones in power it might be different but we are and the Western world has been cruel to those it’s held under its grip…this you can not deny.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Darth Tang
Besides what does the past of certain times in christianity have to do with TODAY! We are talking about Muslims rioting over a cartoon now. Not what or who has done worse in the past. The christian religion has evolved into a generally peaceful religion. The Koran and it's followers are starting to, but the majority apparently haven't moved that way. That is the point.
But since you are attacking the Christian religion, maybe I should riot and burn down your home....since this action is acceptable still in TODAY'S world.

You can stop anytime you wish

 

[mudplayerx]

I disagree with a lot of you. My opinion is that as long as you are not a fanatic or a lunatic, then religion poses no threat to anyone. Our entire country was created due to the desire to worship freely. There are many many references to God in our Constitution and Declaration. Our money even bears the phrase "In God We Trust."
The basic, fundamental laws of the Christian religion are the 10 commandments.... none of which are detrimental to government, peace, or mankind in any form. In fact, the 10 commandments do nothing BUT promote peace, order, and law.
We don't need to be protected from religion....we need to be protected from nutjob extremists...be they islamic, christian, or other. It REALLY irritates me when religion is bashed, and I haven't even been to church in years. The reason I frown on Islam in general is due to the fact that the religion has been so badly overtaken by the extremists that I don't think it will ever recover.
Also, I believe that separation of church and state was created to protect religion from state, not state from religion. A separation was put into place so that government could not meddle in how we worship, who we worship, when we worship, or if we worship at all. There is no need to protect state from religion, as we already have checks in place to get rid of lunatics before religion even becomes an issue.
Communists sought to stifle religion, especially the chinese. Look where they are now. Stagnant economies, banks that constantly have to take dire measures to avoid collapse, jaded workers who are outproduced by democratic workers on all levels, etc..
ps- the rudeness in this thread needs to cease. Feel free to offer your opinion, say that you disagree, or are angered by someones statement. However, just shooting down someone's opinion without offering your own, or mocking someone just creates tension.

 

[darth tang]

Jmick, Please don't tell me you are one of those people that excuse actions of others because the U.S. is a tyranical imperial society. That we as a society have done more bad than good. If that is the case I am through discussing this with you and I will send you a plane ticket to France.
You are excusing behavior based off old grudges and past atrocities. What has the Danish government done to these people besides print a cartoon in a newspaper that warrants their embassies destroyed and their civilians threatened with death?

 

[petieaztec]

Originally Posted by Jmick
This thread is about how violent and dangerous people of the Islamic faith are and my point is that Christian Nations and the people of those nations have been the ones to perpetrate the worst acts of violence and greed against people of different faiths (whether its been for land/oil/power) and these atrocities are often in the name of god. If Arabs were the ones in power it might be different but we are and the Western world has been cruel to those it’s held under its grip…this you can not deny.
so you are saying that if my grandmother oppressed your family back in the day that you can oppress me now. i don't think so. people and societies change, or become more widely educated. some world politics i don't agree with but i do belive that Mr. Laddin is a Judis. He kisses our but until we both have a similar point of interest then when the interest goes to our favor he declares war on us i think not. If you think we deserve this punishment so much why don't you and the highschool boy go over to the insurgents and have a discussion about your feelings. see what they would do to you. they would use you as a hostige.

 

[jmick]

I’ve said all along that there are extremist fringes in the Islamic world that are bent on destroying us and we need to take care of them. However, I do not believe most Arab/Muslims belong in that group. My point is that we are not perfect and history reflects that. I am just annoyed by the blatant racism and hatred posted in this thread from Mud saying he fears all Arabs To Cow saying we should blow them all up and make an amusement park. I’m playing the devils advocate and I guess I’m doing a good job at it.
I love my life in the US and there isn't another other country I'd rather live in but if I was born into a different life in a different corner of the world I might not feel the same way...

 

[darth tang]

Originally Posted by Jmick
I’ve said all along that there are extremist fringes in the Islamic world that are bent on destroying us and we need to take care of them. However, I do not believe most Arab/Muslims belong in that group. My point is that we are not perfect and history reflects that. I am just annoyed by the blatant racism and hatred posted in this thread from Mud saying he fears all Arabs To Cow saying we should blow them all up and make an amusement park. I’m playing the devils advocate and I guess I’m doing a good job at it.
I love my life in the US and there isn't another other country I'd rather live in but if I was born into a different life in a different corner of the world I might not feel the same way...

I viewed muslims (not arabs, their is a difference) in the same light as you Jmick, only a few are violent and so forth. But the reaction from the muslim world on 9/11 showed me I might be right. This recent action by a large percentage of the Muslim community is eye openning and has made me rethink my views on their "tolerance" of us and our culture.
And yes the devil's advocate role worked well....especially when you starting using atrocities in history to justify actions of today...that bothered and I am not sure why. Maybe because I feel we have learned and moved on from those times to a better place and excusing similar behavior in today's world is very wrong to me.

 

[petieaztec]

ok blowing them ALL up is an ignorant stament to make I do agree with you on that. You just can't group people together that is all i am saying and now i know now that we are on the same page. history does come back to bite you in the butt.

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by Darth Tang
Besides what does the past of certain times in Christianity have to do with TODAY! We are talking about Muslims rioting over a cartoon now. Not what or who has done worse in the past. The Christian religion has evolved into a generally peaceful religion. The Koran and it's followers are starting to, but the majority apparently haven't moved that way. That is the point.
But since you are attacking the Christian religion, maybe I should riot and burn down your home....since this action is acceptable still in TODAY'S world.
Not my home, please.... I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment. The key is evolving into a civilized mindset. 600 yrs ago Christians were involved in the Crusades, and we even had Popes donning armor and leading armies! Now, this is unheard of with Christians. Its a matter of "evolving". Religion, after all, is a creation of man, even if it is inspired by God. Man, by nature, is competitive and domineering and, yes, even violent. Its a part of our biological makeup and "survival of the fittest".
In the West, it is our values that have evolved over 2000 yrs that makes killing and violence abhorrent to us nowdays. Tolerance and non-violence are Christian values, that absolutely did not exist pre-Christ. Not even with Jews. I'm not sure the Koran has love they neighbor in it, but there is an effort by many Muslims to adopt civilization and the tolerance that goes with that. Unfortunately, there is still too many that don't embrace this.
What exactly did the Jews do in this cartoon thing to warrant the acrimony currently heaved at them? It is just hatred of a race. They had nothing to do with that silly cartoon.

 

[37g joe]

Originally Posted by Jmick
This thread is about how violent and dangerous people of the Islamic faith are and my point is that Christian Nations and the people of those nations have been the ones to perpetrate the worst acts of violence and greed against people of different faiths (whether its been for land/oil/power) and these atrocities are often in the name of god. If Arabs were the ones in power it might be different but we are and the Western world has been cruel to those it’s held under its grip…this you can not deny.

You could not be more wrong in the last ten years the sudanaeese goverment has butchard more than 5 million christians who live in thier country China has also killed millions of christians. You live in a western buble. Africa & asia thier is much more violence. look at the congo or nigeria thier has been tens of millions of Christian Genocide in the past few years but the news chooses to ignore it. Thiere are wars agains the muslims and the hindues and budist in india and pakistan how about Istanbull and north africa that used to be all christian nations but islamic forces came in thier and killed Millions of christians and other religions. Look at bosnia right now we freed them from milosevic and now the muslims are killing large masses of jews and christians or making them leave. but the news does not report that!!!! Also to the person who said that russia national relgion was orthidox no it was not. the ussr restricted the orthidox chhurch and had much control over them and what they said and if officals did not do what they said they where murder or put into work camps!!!!! also to the point about americans that Indians where less humans that was a darwinistic view thiere are many cases where the church would try to step in between the goverment and the nativs and they where met by force by the goverment. The collonal goverment actually punishedindividuals who made unothized aqusions of indian lands and for the originol settlement Roger williams obtained title from the indians befor setlling providence. Plymoth obtains title after seltlement but still did purchass land. Conneticot and new haven followed the pattern established by williams in providance settlements is the connecticut valley and others settlements was postivly encoraged by tribes in the 1630's who thoght that the english could be a obstcal to the ambitions of the peQouts a hated tribe that was raging war with all the other tribes in the 1630's where we where settling new england collinies purchased from the natives the land that they settled. they did not steal it and this is what happend in most of the rest of what is now the U.s until the 1800's when alot more wars broke out yes thier was some wars but not at first and it was against colonal law to kill a native you would be executed if you did.
If you wondering how the crusades started check into the actual history. befor they started Slam had been on a war campaiighn had taken siege of large parts of the former roman empire and killed allies of western europe and christian in thoes areas the old eastern empire was destroye constantinople was desroye norther africa was destroyed now islam was coming into spain and killin millions upon millions and also coming from the east entering what is now yugoslovia and greece killing and piliging towns. through out the mediterium spaniish and african coasts thier where shiips controled by the moors mostly from moroco tha was destroyn trading ships from christian nations the enslaved millions more and thats where the first pritats really came from. Europ was under siege and at war with an enemy that they never had proveked they started fighting bak and decided to take back jerslam for stratigic purposes if the had jeruslam they could rally more people to fight the incursions.all of these facts are in history books but in the last 80 or so years the past has been hijacked fo others agenda's the choos to leave out the reasons why these thing started and we become more and more ignorant.

 

[37g joe]

sorry about spelling errors I really need to proof read befor posting.

 

[37g joe]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
It has been estimated the 10% of all Muslims are radical fundametalists when it come to their "religion". I am not certain how this was quantified but it does equate to approximately 1 million. I would guess additional Muslims would sy violence is okay depending on the situation.
Either way we must remember itis not all Muslims that profess this...but it is my opinion may are situationalists....which means their position regarding volence will change based on the "situation".
Either way one only needs to look at the Koran and realize it does sterss violence, murder and destruction on/of/to the non-Muslim world.
Good and bad is present in all religions...and it is usally the extermists which cause the problems.
Perosanlly, I have no reason to change what I dodregardless of someones beleif. I should and this country or any country should display tolerance but those we are to display tolreance towards can show zero tolerance in return?
Sounds like the tail is wagging the dog. We all need to wake up and stop living in a fantasyland.
alright I have herd stastitics saying more like 30% but that can be debated what cant be debated is that the world population of muslims is around 1,279,000,000 thats right over a billion if we just use your 10% thats not 1 million radical muslims thats 127,900,000 thats alot of radicals and that is pretty freekin scarry, also since islam is the fastest growing relegion due to the fact of population growth its just gonna be more and since western civilisation population is about stagnent. we are in alot of trouble. here is the thing we have the capaabilities of wiping them out but we would never do that if they had the power though they would wipe us out and it is just a matter of time until they do have the power.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by 37g Joe
alright I have herd stastitics saying more like 30% but that can be debated what cant be debated is that the world population of muslims is around 1,279,000,000 thats right over a billion if we just use your 10% thats not 1 million radical muslims thats 127,900,000 thats alot of radicals and that is pretty freekin scarry, also since islam is the fastest growing relegion due to the fact of population growth its just gonna be more and since western civilisation population is about stagnent. we are in alot of trouble. here is the thing we have the capaabilities of wiping them out but we would never do that if they had the power though they would wipe us out and it is just a matter of time until they do have the power.
Based on the the article I read I know the numers are correct...but it is obviously pertaining to a geographical location.....that which escapes me now. I read the article was 2 or three years ago. My memory ain't what it used to be...my bad. Ishould have verified the info I posted.

 

[waterpolo]

Originally Posted by Jmick
How many Muslims do you know? I'd guess there aren't many in Clarksville, TN and that you're basing your opinion on what you're seeing on CSpan...shame on you. If it were 50 years ago would you be making the same comment about blacks?
Who said we were talking about racism. Have you watched the War In Iraq on the news lately. Exactly

 

[waterpolo]

Originally Posted by petieaztec
ok blowing them ALL up is an ignorant stament to make I do agree with you on that. You just can't group people together that is all i am saying and now i know now that we are on the same page. history does come back to bite you in the butt.
Our history about racism isn't a reflection on us now. We were not a capitalist society when there was the union vs the confederates. The Union after they made their amendments prohibited slavery but the confederacy (the south) refused to free blacks. It was basically a nation split in half. A 3rd of the states that we have now did not exist back then so you can't say history "bites us in the butt" We were different back then.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Jmick
My point is that Christian nations have committed the worst atrocities over last 300 years. The Native Americans were deemed as sub human by the invading Christians and were put to the sword. The Jews were looked at much the same by the Germans.
That's blatantly false. Communism and Nazism are responsible for the deaths of over 100 million people (CIVILIANS) in this century alone.
I've studied, and continue to study church history. There is a lot there to be ashamed of... let's not make stuff up to add to the mix.

 

[mudplayerx]

The muslims as a whole are barbarians, and christians as a whole are well-intentioned people. I grow weary from beating around the bush. Yes I am a bigot. Bigotry means "by God" and by God, the muslims are insane

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
That's blatantly false. Communism and Nazism are responsible for the deaths of over 100 million people (CIVILIANS) in this century alone.
I've studied, and continue to study church history. There is a lot there to be ashamed of... let's not make stuff up to add to the mix.
Here you go church boy...
Traditional evaluation of Christian complicity in the Holocaust and other Nazi crimes focuses on the degree to which Christians allowed themselves to be used for Nazi purposes, but this presupposes a distinction between Nazis and Christians which didn’t exist. Christians actively supported the Nazi agenda. Most Nazis were devout Christians and believed that Nazi philosophy was animated by Christian doctrine.
Christians today find it implausible that their religion could have anything in common with Nazism, but they need to recognize that Christianity — including their own — is always conditioned by the culture around it. For Germans at the beginning of the 20th century, Christianity was often profoundly anti-Semitic and nationalistic. This was the same ground which the Nazis found so fertile for their own ideology — it would have been amazing had the two systems not found much in common and been unable to work together.
Nazi Christians didn’t abandon basic Christian doctrines, like the divinity of Jesus. Their oddest religious belief was a denial of the Jewishness of Jesus, but even today there are German Christians who object when Jesus’ Jewishness is focused upon. Nazi Christians didn’t follow an idiosyncratic version of Christianity nor was it “infected” with hate and nationalism. Everything about Nazi Christianity already existed in German Christianity before the Nazis came on the scene.
The actions of Hitler and the Nazis were as “Christian” as those of people during the Crusades or the Inquisition. Some leading Nazis preferred a neo-pagan theistic religion over Christianity, but this was never officially endorsed by the Nazi Party or by Adolf Hitler. Christians may not like seeing Nazism as having anything to do with Christianity, but Germany saw itself as a fundamentally Christian nation and millions of Christians in Germany enthusiastically endorsed Hitler and the Nazi Party, in part because they saw both as embodiments of German and Christian ideals.