Another new guy to the hobby. Need suggesstions.

[tur4k]

I have to admit, I didn't read all 12 pages of this thread. So you have to excuse me if I'm speaking out of turn, but why are you drilling holes for power heads? Most power heads stick to the side with magnets and/or suction cups. You can drill holes for a closed loop system where you have an external circulation pump that sucks water out of the tank and shoots it back in again through holes that have been drilled in the tank, but that is usually reserved for larger tanks. Unless you really hate the look of power heads, I'd just put two medium power heads in a 75 gallon and forget about drilling for a closed loop.
Also, you can probably accomplish the same thing from using a spray bar on a 75 gallon as you would with a closed loop.

 

[mmyuki]

The holes I will be drilling for the tank are for the pump that will be in my sump. Instead of the water just flowing from the sump to my display tank and dumping onto the top of the tank, I will blow that water back into the system and use it for water movement, so I will have no need for the powerheads, unless the pump is not big enough. I am trying to go with the least amount of man made stuff people can see. So without the heater, the thermometer and powerheads I think it will look nicer. I may be saying it wrong but I think your closed loop thing is what I am trying to say..

 

[travelerjp98]

Wow! Good luck with that- the plans look awesome!
I don't know about the crushed coral in the refuge though, I don't see the point of it there. I think it will just collect uneaten food and fish poop.
But I really couldn't tell you that much, I am kind of new to this too.
So try it out!
I would really love some pictures of the 30 right now!

 

[tur4k]

I see. Instead of doing a standard overflow/return, you are going to treat it like a closed loop and return it through holes in the back. I suppose that should work if your overflow is capable of handling the amount of water coming back into the tank from your return pump.
You may want to look into a spray bar if you are trying to get your circulation from the return pump. It would probably give you better control over your flow,

 

[2quills]

How do you plan to combat back flow into your sump when the return pump gets shut off? Check valve perhaps? I've kind of always been under the impression that flow inside of the tank is best dealt with by using either power heads and or a traditional closed loop system while utilizing your filtration devices like a sump as a separate entity. Since this isn't necessarily a closed loop how much flow to you plan on getting out of your return pump?

 

[mmyuki]

I'm not really sure exactly how much flow I'm going to get out of the return pump, I will still have to do some research on this. This will be my first tank with an overflow and first tank trying to do my own powerheads through the return. I plan on using some sort of u tube to control the flow from the powerhead holes if the pump shuts off, that way the pressure wont fill the sump and overflow it, like I said still new and will do all research needed before actually setting this up. I have been checking youtube for videos and seeing diffrent ways for sumps / refuges. If anyone has ideas about this setup please let me know.

 

[travelerjp98]

Good luck with that! It's getting a little more complicated/technical than I can give you ideas for, but I'll still be subscribed to this thread!

 

[tur4k]

I think you are asking for trouble. I can't think of any way other then using a check valve to keep from syphoning most of your tank water back into the sump when the pump shuts off. Check valves can and do fail. I don't think I would want to risk coming home to an empty tank and a flooded room.
I would either keep it as a closed loop that is separate from the sump or use powerheads and/or spray bar.

 

[flower]

Hey Corey...isn't what MMyuki talking about very simular to what you made for my seahorse tank? My returns have valves for flow control, and PVC pipes made into spray bars for flow instead of using power heads. I do have a small hole drilled for a siphon break.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/382927/another-new-guy-to-the-hobby-need-suggesstions/240#post_3387078
Hey Corey...isn't what MMyuki talking about very simular to what you made for my seahorse tank? My returns have valves for flow control, and PVC pipes made into spray bars for flow instead of using power heads. I do have a small hole drilled for a siphon break.
It is in the sense that he's looking to get all of the flow in his tank from his return pump. In your case Flower with the 30g it was easy because the seahorses only needed a minimal amount of flow. Plus we used two spray bars like you mentioned that also have siphon breaks to stop the back flow when power to the return is cut. And you also have a sump that is the same size as the display tank.
In MMyuki's case, according to the drawings that I saw on the last page the bulkheads for the returns are set in the middle of the tank on the back. Which means that unless he uses a check valve or a "one way valve" as some people call them, then half of his display tank is going to drain out when the return pump gets cut off. Which could work but typically the check valves are usually used as a back up and not a full proof way to stop back flow. As Tur4k mentioned they have been known to be prone to failure if they're not regularly cleaned.
But it really all comes down to the basic principles that most of us believe that you really don't want to push a ton of flow through your sump. It makes the sump less effective as a filtration device, detritus has much less of a chance to settle in the sump where it can be easily removed, less contact time with the water in the fuge for nutrient export, micro bubble issues, etc.
Also one thing that I see, MMyuki is that you have the skimmer showing in the return chamber. Typically this is not a good idea for a few reasons. Skimmers need to sit in a chamber that has a set water height that doesn't fluctuate in order to work properly. They all have recommended depths depending on the manufacturer at which they should be ran. Since all of the evaporation in the system manifests itself in the return chamber/sump on a system. So typically this is not a good place to have it. Also, skimmers produce alot of bubbles and having the skimmer that close to your return pump is going to push alot of bubbles into your display. And last, if you're planning on using your fuge to breed pods or anything like that then the pods are going to have to try and get past the skimmer in order to make their way up to the display. I would put the skimmer in the first section of the sump. JMO

 

[mmyuki]

Corey I am starting to understand where you are coming from with the closed loop system, is there anything you would suggest I could do to get the amount of flow I would like without / with the least amount of power heads? I dont mind having some in there just dont want alot with the 75g. I really dont want a big tube in the tank either spraying water around, it looks funny. I dont know if you have any ideas I would very well like to see them and maybe switch my plans up. I dont want to have to deal with the coming home to an empty tank or a flooded room / basement anyhow hah. Thank you all for taking the time and reading my thread and putting some input back in.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMyuki http:///forum/thread/382927/another-new-guy-to-the-hobby-need-suggesstions/240#post_3387121
Corey I am starting to understand where you are coming from with the closed loop system, is there anything you would suggest I could do to get the amount of flow I would like without / with the least amount of power heads? I dont mind having some in there just dont want alot with the 75g. I really dont want a big tube in the tank either spraying water around, it looks funny. I dont know if you have any ideas I would very well like to see them and maybe switch my plans up. I dont want to have to deal with the coming home to an empty tank or a flooded room / basement anyhow hah. Thank you all for taking the time and reading my thread and putting some input back in.
Sure, it's pretty simple. You're on the right track. Just get a second pump and use that for a closed loop system. But plumb it outside of your sump. You would need to make another hole in the tank to incorporate a bulkhead for the intake side of the pump. Typically this is larger than the return holes so that you can make sure that you flood the pump on the intake side with as much water as possible. This is a 75g tank. Something like a 1,500gph pump after head loss would give you a 20x turnover rate in the tank. I would maybe even step it up to 2,000gph to give you just over 25x turnover. This way there is no chance for flooding because the system is closed and no bulky power heads to look at in the tank. Size of holes would be determined by the pump you chose since some of them have different sized intakes and outputs.

 

[mmyuki]

What brand pump do you suggest? Any pictures? Maybe a quick mspainting of how this will look like? Im not sure I am picturing it right.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMyuki http:///forum/thread/382927/another-new-guy-to-the-hobby-need-suggesstions/240#post_3387154
What brand pump do you suggest? Any pictures? Maybe a quick mspainting of how this will look like? Im not sure I am picturing it right.
I've never used an external pump but from what I hear is that the Reeflo's are pretty popular for closed loop applications. Probably the Reeflo Snapper Gold model would be appropriate for your set up. Here's a sketch, the diagram on the bottom is the closed loop.

 

[acrylic51]

I'd move the CL intake to the center of the tank, and I'd opt for the newer Dart Hybrid pump......Outstanding products by Reeflo!!!!!!!

 

[mmyuki]

Alright very cool, nice to see how its setup. Where can I get an overflow box from and how big does it need to be? I see there are 2 overflow holes drilled inside that overflow box. Where does the water from the overflow go? Into a sump/fuge? or into the closed loop pump? That I did not understand.

 

[tur4k]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMyuki http:///forum/thread/382927/another-new-guy-to-the-hobby-need-suggesstions/240#post_3387230
Alright very cool, nice to see how its setup. Where can I get an overflow box from and how big does it need to be? I see there are 2 overflow holes drilled inside that overflow box. Where does the water from the overflow go? Into a sump/fuge? or into the closed loop pump? That I did not understand.
The overflow goes into the sump/fuge. The closed loop pump should have it's own hole drilled for it's intake.

 

[mmyuki]

Alright so I will have 1 hole for the CL intake for the pump, 4 holes for the CL return. Then I will have another 2 holes for the overflow box, then the overflow return will just dump back in from a tube hanging over the back? If that's correct I will have 7 holes drilled in to this tank? Seems like a lot :-/ Does anyone suggest doing something this way or do people usually dump the CL and just do the normal overflow and sump / fuge?

 

[2quills]

Sounds like turning your tank into swiss chees huh? That does sound like a lot of holes in a 75 gallon. You don't necissarily have to do 4 holes for the return on the closed loop. You could do two or three, it's up to you. I like Shawn's sugguestion of having the intake hole in the middle and then the returns spread out evenly across the tank. Then again, you could just purchase a couple of low profile vortech power heads and still have a clean look in the tank.

 

[mmyuki]

Yeah that is just to many holes in that small of a tank for me. I think I will end up just going with single drilled hole for the overflow and just dump it back into the top of the tank from the back with some pvc or tubing. I will just grab 2 or 3 koralia # 4s from ebay. I was debating making my own overflow box for it becuase I really dont want to spend $80 bucks on one when I could probably do it myself with some acrylic or even glass for cheaper. Question with that is how big should I make this overflow box and where do I generally need to drill the holes from the top of the box? I will turn my 30 into the sump or buy another one for it and put my 30 in the bedroom =-)
Plus I don't really have $300 to spend on a CL pump right now, maybe when I get a bigger tank I will jump into a CL but for now, I'll stick with the standard sump / fuge overflows.