anyone going to the inauguration?

hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
The OP was about Obama becoming president, not about everyone's personal arguements about whether being liberal or conservative or right or left wing is better. He is not going to destroy our country. Stop being dramatic. That arguement has been hashed out here so many times that it is making me a little nauseous to be honest. Please discuss relevant subjects.
Please let's discuss what changes and laws are being done since Obama was elected. He is the president now so it's something that you need to deal with.
As for the torture of believed criminals. I am a little on the fence. I understand the theory behind it. The US is trying to be a model to the rest of the world on how you should "humanely" treat those in prisons. However, I also agree that enemies won't care about that. If that is put into place there will need to be harsher laws for war crimes. Could be a downward spiral.....
What are the thoughts of everyone as to the closing of Gitmo? The president signed a directive stating that it will be closed within the year. I haven't decided how I feel yet.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2923001
The OP was about Obama becoming president, not about everyone's personal arguements about whether being liberal or conservative or right or left wing is better. He is not going to destroy our country. Stop being dramatic. That arguement has been hashed out here so many times that it is making me a little nauseous to be honest. Please discuss relevant subjects.
Please let's discuss what changes and laws are being done since Obama was elected. He is the president now so it's something that you need to deal with.
As for the torture of believed criminals. I am a little on the fence. I understand the theory behind it. The US is trying to be a model to the rest of the world on how you should "humanely" treat those in prisons. However, I also agree that enemies won't care about that. If that is put into place there will need to be harsher laws for war crimes. Could be a downward spiral.....
What are the thoughts of everyone as to the closing of Gitmo? The president signed a directive stating that it will be closed within the year. I haven't decided how I feel yet.
Depends if you buy the "torture" argument, personally I don't, and think it was an expected political move, with devistating consequences, but I don't it was any different from what McLame would have done.
But I guess listening to rap is torture, now that I think about it.
 
fish master

fish master

Member
the simple truth is this, obama was voted in to make history. first blackman to become president. the people that voted for him cares nothing about the political side of him or what he will do for the country. that is obvious with all of the stuff they have on him. they would not have cared if he just got out of prison. they would have still voted him in.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2923047
Study the changes to the Nation made during FDR and Carter....
When people are soo bass ackwards they think failure is good, this point will only prove in their minds that they're right.
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2923047
Study the changes to the Nation made during FDR and Carter....
Ummm, this was my point. This post is not set up to talk about FDR and Carter. Another thread needs to be started if that is a subject someone wishes to discuss. This post was sent up to talk about what is going on right now. Roundabout arguments start when people don't stick to the subject at hand. Those lead no where.
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
Originally Posted by fish master
http:///forum/post/2923010
the simple truth is this, obama was voted in to make history. first blackman to become president. the people that voted for him cares nothing about the political side of him or what he will do for the country. that is obvious with all of the stuff they have on him. they would not have cared if he just got out of prison. they would have still voted him in.
Okay I get your point but that is a little exaggerated. No one is perfect but he is not some murdering felon..lol. How do you feel about the change in the torture laws and Gitmo closing??????
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2923007
Depends if you buy the "torture" argument, personally I don't, and think it was an expected political move, with devistating consequences, but I don't it was any different from what McLame would have done.
But I guess listening to rap is torture, now that I think about it.
Thanks for staying on subject...

There have been a lot of reports about it going on unfortunately. I sincerely hope half of it isn't true. Hopefully the people doing the interrogations are following the laws and regulations set up by our government on the treatment of criminals.
On Gitmo, they have been detaining people indefinitely without substantial evidence backing up any crimes. So basically they detain them for months or years without charging them on anything. That I do have a serious problem with. You need to have evidence to hold someone for a crime. Not just because you have an inkling in the back of your head or something.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2923099
Ummm, this was my point. This post is not set up to talk about FDR and Carter. Another thread needs to be started if that is a subject someone wishes to discuss. This post was sent up to talk about what is going on right now. Roundabout arguments start when people don't stick to the subject at hand. Those lead no where.
What is round about about saying, It didn't work for FDR, it didn't work for Carter, Obama doing it won't work either? This is a completely laughable statement. You're arguing that history is irrelevant, and thus repeating the same policy mistakes doesn't mean the same bad consequences will happen.
But it is enlightening on how liberals justify ignoring the facts and repeat the same errors over and over and over.
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2923119
Thanks for staying on subject...

There have been a lot of reports about it going on unfortunately. I sincerely hope half of it isn't true. Hopefully the people doing the interrogations are following the laws and regulations set up by our government on the treatment of criminals.
On Gitmo, they have been detaining people indefinitely without substantial evidence backing up any crimes. So basically they detain them for months or years without charging them on anything. That I do have a serious problem with. You need to have evidence to hold someone for a crime. Not just because you have an inkling in the back of your head or something.
The simple fact that they were engaging american soldiers on the battle field while not in a uniform is a crime... These aren't innocent people being screwed. A good portion of the people released have found there way back into the fighting. These are people who systematically plan for the destruction of the USA.
Think about it, you are a captured terrorist, you have a U.S. news media sympathetic to your claims. You know crying torture will be echo-ed. Of course you're going to say you got tortured, just like ever criminal cries police brutality.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2922940
Don't give Bush that much credit about keeping this country safe the last 7 years. It's called Homeland Security Act, enacted after the 9/11 attacks. If you want to credit our safety to Bush, then ask why he didn't implement this act PRIOR to the attack. And please don't tell me he didn't have intelligence reports knowing about Al-Qaeda movements before 9/11 happened.

Using that argument, Clinton messed up even worse. Refusing to take the call to capture OBL. But then again, he had a date with his humidor.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2922914
I'm not saying historical facts are being 'spun'. However, what occurred during those events and how those events are portrayed in history are based on personal accounts of people who were there. Some data is 100% factual - the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. But how about the conspiracy theory behind the illustrious telegram that Washington received prior to the bombing of Pearl Harbor informing the US of an impending attack? Did that actually occur, or it it hearsay based on personal accounts of individuals who were there?
From what I've read, we did intercept and decode the "then it is war" memo sent from the Emperor to the Japanese Embassy. Errors in judgement from FDR to the local commanders lead to the "surprise". We had the attack on radar, yet we thought that it was an expected flight of B-17's from the mainland. Even though, they were coming from the wrong direction. Some say FDR allowed the attack to force us to war.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2923119
....
On Gitmo, they have been detaining people indefinitely without substantial evidence backing up any crimes. So basically they detain them for months or years without charging them on anything. That I do have a serious problem with. You need to have evidence to hold someone for a crime. Not just because you have an inkling in the back of your head or something.
Evidence? Catching someone in combat in a warzone trying to kill American Soldiers and our Allies seems like "evidence" to me.
Please post a link to anyone you feel is being held "without evidence".
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2923099
Ummm, this was my point. This post is not set up to talk about FDR and Carter. Another thread needs to be started if that is a subject someone wishes to discuss. This post was sent up to talk about what is going on right now. Roundabout arguments start when people don't stick to the subject at hand. Those lead no where.
Actually this is direct to the point at hand. Obama's plans are not "new" or "original. He is attempting to continue the failed policies of his predecessors.
I would have liked to have seen him discuss "internment camps" with FDR and enemy rights with Lincoln, however.
 
jp30338

jp30338

Member
Yes, I am an american, though not a proud one since the GW's been in office. It amazes me why americans like you wonder why the majority of the world really dislikes americans lol
Call me a liberal all you want...I do not believe in the left or right, republican or democrat. I judge each president by their actions, policies and beliefs.
I could care less about what you or your family did/does.
No I went to private catholic school.
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2922429
What?
The founding fathers are no longer relevant? Let me guess you went to public school.
Please explain your statement. I guess we tear up the Constitution and Declaration of Independance too. I am interested to hear more. My family fought in the Continental Army during the Revolution, did your family?
Your statement about Obama "abolishing" groups comes right from the words and deeds of men like Marx, Lenin, Hitler, Stalin. You would prefer to live inder the rule of these men? Maybe he should "abolish" the NEA, that might make our schools teach the truth about the history of America.
As to the NRA. There is this little problem with the Second Ammednment that liberals would just love to figure a way around.
You do not sound like an American.
 
jp30338

jp30338

Member
+1
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2921036
Oh, nevermind, I read back a page and you have already done that....
Why is this the same ol' arguments that were had before the election? Then it made sense as you could change peoples minds, now.....
....OBAMA is president! nothing you can do...
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by jp30338
http:///forum/post/2923264
...
Call me a liberal all you want...I do not believe in the left or right, republican or democrat. I judge each president by their actions, policies and beliefs....
And what standard do you use to judge their performance if not the Constitution? World opinion?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Obama made an idiotic politically motivated move with the"torture" deal. He limited all interrogations to the methods in the army field manual. Nothing like telling your enemy what strategy you are going to use against them.
The army is limited to those methods because they are not experts at interrogation. Those who are say "Torture" USUALLY doesn't work. Why would you tie the hands of those who know what the best methods are. How many other methods are available the Obama just took off the table.
Then to add insult to injury the goober made another political decision on Gitmo without first deciding what to do with the terrorists there. I am sure there are a bunch of lawyers jumping for joy.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Just saw and interesting provision in the army field manual. As a method of interrogation you are not allowed to destroy or deface a religious item.
So why our tax dollars have been used to fund "art" that included a crucifix in a jar of pee and a picture of the Virgin Mary smeared with elephant crap a soldier would be jailed and discharged for tearing a terrorists copy of the Koran. That makes sense.
 
chilwil84

chilwil84

Active Member
the best part about obamas executive order about tourture and club gitmo is he gave himself an out in the order to reinstate it when he wants to.
 
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