B.S.opinions about Bio-wheels IME,Show me proof please

[irishsalt]

Whaddup yooz guys,
Well, I've been out of this hobby for a good 6 years now, as I've stated in multiple threads since I've come to this fine lil forum. I've actually got way to many Hobbies and Intrests relative to my age(25) but I try to make some time for them with my crazy work schedule(my girl/s always love or flat our dispise my hobbies..namely cars, guns and now Marine fish again).
Anyway, We all know that Opinions are like [EDIT FOR LANGUAGE] and every hobby is swimming in them. I've recently noticed that many/some in the Marine Aqua world think that *BIo-wheels are Nitrate factories in Saltwater Aquariums. I know two dudes locally that run elaborate Filter systems with Bio-wheels. One dude has a tank with a VERY nice mod'd Protein skimmer(can't think of the name offhand), a very nice AquaC UV Sterilizer(with a low pump flow rate through said equip.), and a Marineland Magnum 350 in his gorgeous 120 gallon Fish and rock only tank. This dude has been running this tank for alomost three years now and his levels are perfect. He occasionaly uses Tropic Marin Elim-phos for any possible Phosphate problems and he uses Kent Essential Elements to replace filtered out good stuff. He has lots of LR and a nice LS bed(not to thick, not to thin). He also runs a pretty high bio-load from his babies. He does water changes very infrequently and his tank is always rocking and rolling.
I know another dude locally that has a 55gallon(long) Reef tank with very similar equipment to the above that uses biowheels. He also has lots of LR and a nice LS bed with a moderate bio-load on his gorgeous reef tank with rediculous lighting. He does 30% CHanges like once a month and his tank is pretty much perfect.
So, Could somone show me some definitive evidence that Bio-wheels/Marine aqua are a recipe for disaster(nitrate trap). I'd almost be willing to bet the farm that it's total BS rumors that just keep making the rounds and people keep spreading said rumors. I wouldn't be suprised if all this came from some dudes that had a sand bed that was way to deep and developed a nitrate trap.
TIA and Peace

 

[hermitkrab]

Well I have a bio-wheel on my 40g tank. I have not even had it for a week but it seems to be fine. I have the Emperor 280 (moved down from a 400 because it was huge). In it I have of course the regular Marineland cartridges and I also have cell pore BioMedia in it. My tank has 90 lbs. of live sand and 75 lbs. of live rock. I currently have no fish. But my tank has been up for over 5 months. Along with the bio-wheel I run a AquaClear 70 powerfilter and that seems to be doing good (in that I have cermaic rings, nitrex, carbon, and foam). I also have a refugium. The refugium is a CPR AquaFuge and is the Large one (24" L x 4" W x 12" H). In my refugium I have like 15 lbs. of live rock (covered in coralline) and 16 lbs. of live sand (6 lbs. of which is bio-sediment). For now in my refugium (until Staurday that is) I have no plants but have a xenia frag, shrooms, and some zoos. I believe for my tank this setup is plenty good. Because my entire bio-load is like 23 crabs (3 emeralds and rest are scarlet hermits), almost 30 snails (1 conch and one mexican turbo the rest are a mix of turbos, nassarius, and ceriths), and 5 shrimp (two peppers, one skunk cleaner, and two monkey shrimp). And even when I get fsh I will only have like five so a refugium, bio-wheel, and powerfilter that are all (except for the refugium I guess) made for tanks up to twice the size of my own. But I am not the person to ask questions about for bio-wheels anyway. Well I'll keep watching this post because I would like to see how it is resolved. Enjoy.

 

[snipe]

I think this post is a long mis understanding because I have never seen anyone say a biowheele is a nitrate factorie. I have seen that said about sumps or wet/dry systems but that is not true. But for bio wheels there is nothing really for the peices to hold on to for them to decay on.

 

[jonny bolt]

Yeah, I have never heard that said about Bio-Wheels. I have however heard the supposed "elite" of this hobby make fun of bio-wheels lol. I have one, and my friend has 3 of them. They all work GREAT.

 

[snipe]

I have a penguine 330 "same thing as the emporer 400 just diffrent maker" dual bio wheel system I have filter pads in there little peices of rock "I let it grow bacteria on it or when I get corals they can be used to atach the corals to" I have a large peice of foam from a cleaning tool I cut the foam off so I can use the tool as a scraper it holds bacteria and I have 2 carbon blocks in there. Alot of filtration for such alittle unit huh lol.

 

[jonny bolt]

Marineland makes both the Penguin AND the Emperor power filters. The Emperors just flow more GPH.

 

[bang guy]

High Nitrates are not a disaster, just smog that makes it more likely to have unwanted algae.
All forms of filtration that rely on nitrifying bacteria to consume Ammonia will produce Nitrate. The export mechanism your system uses for Nitrate will determine if a biowheel is a productive form of filtration or not.
If your primary export mechanism is changing water (dilution) and/or an algae scrubber then a biowheel should be an excellent for of filtration.
If your primary export is Nitrogen gas produced from the denitrifying bacteria in live rock and/or a deep sand bed the I believe a biowheel would be counterproductive, ie. Nitrate factory.
I would be very interested in actual numbers as far as Nitrate levels. Proof is not going to be an easy thing to find. Perhaps a poll of nitrate levels and filtration systems will give some direction but proof is another matter.

 

[kdfrosty]

Don't know if this will serve as proof, but here's my tank params...you decide:
50g tank
50lbs LR
80lbs LS
light bioload (1 small blenny fed every other day, cleanup crew)
Magnum 350 canister running carbon
Penguin 330 Biowheel (w/ carbon pads & ceramic in media basket)
2x Maxijet 1200 powerheads
SeaClone 100 Protein Skimmer
Ammonia 0
Temp 80
Ph 8.1
SG 1.024
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 10
This is a typical reading in-between water changes, of which I do 10% weekly. Nitrates really never seem to go below or much above 10ppm.
IMO the combination of the biowheel and the Magnum 350 canister filter cause the nitrates to stay right around 10ppm. As soon as I have enough LR, I plan on removing the biowheel, and probably even the canister. I may, however, use the canister with no media to maintain my turnover rate which is currently at 27x.
I HTH.

 

[snipe]

10ppm isnt nothing that is not bad. I have a biowheel filter and a skimmer "I have live rock and sand to but for mechanicle or whatever you want to call it a hang on filter and skimmer is it" I have 4 fish a pretty good hunk of cleanup crew and my params hang around 5ppm I do a monthly waterchange of only around 6 gallons. I know that isnt alot but I dont have mutch of anything pulling out the elements. When I get corals I will have to bump it up.

 

[who dey]

55gal with 2 penguin 330's. nitrate = 0

 

[mudplayerx]

Biowheels are just like bioballs, and my opinion on both of them is that they are totally unecessary and prone to causing problems at the year and a half to two year mark.

 

[lion_crazz]

Originally Posted by mudplayerx
Biowheels are just like bioballs, and my opinion on both of them is that they are totally unecessary and prone to causing problems at the year and a half to two year mark.
I agree. I think too many people forget to clean them, and then that is when problems begin to occur. I still say the best form of bilogical filtration is live rock, not any type of media.

 

[mande51334]

i've got a 55 with a 4" DSB and 60 lbs.LR my nitrates are way off the scale,coincedentally happened after i removed the bio wheels, should i replace them or what? i'm at a dead end, dont know what to do, i dont want to give up on the hobby but this is very discouraging. any help is appreciated!! thank you. my nitrates are between 80 - 12o. tank has been up for about 3 years, so its not a new tank.all i've got in it are 2 clowns and 2 blue damsels.oh yeah, also running an Emperor 400 and a Sea clone 100 (if that helps)
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :help:

 

[jonny bolt]

You not supposed to clean bio-wheels. That defeats the purpose of allowing the beneficial bacteria to grow on it. The only time you should even think about removing some of the stuff of it is if its stops moving completely. At that point, put some of your tank water in a bowl, and swoosh your bio-wheel around in that to get some excess off so it'll spin again.
Mande, maybe you should do a substantial water change, and add your bio-wheels(s) back to your set-up, then see if the nitrates go back down and stabilize. If they dont, then you may have another problem thats need to be pinpointed.

 

[reefnut]

I agree they are unnecessary if other adequate filtration is provided.
I have no proof to give, nor would I wont to get into a "prove it to me" debate but here's one view on bio-wheels and bio-balls.
These filtration devises that utilize nitrifying bacteria are very efficient at breaking down organics and ammonia into nitrites and then to nitrates. That is there function and what we use them for.
Many inhabitance in our systems readily utilize organics and even ammonia for nutrients. If the nitrifying bacteria breaks these organics and ammonias down into nitrates before they have had a chance to be utilized then they are producing unnecessary nitrates. In addition, If the nitrifying bacteria breaks these organics and ammonias down into nitrates before denitrifying bacteria has had a chance to turn it into nitrogen gas then they are producing unnecessary nitrates.
So call it what you want but the way I see it they do produce unnecessary nitrates.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by mande51334
i've got a 55 with a 4" DSB
Is it live sand with worms, bugs & other sand bed infauna or is it just deep sand?

 

[mande51334]

i used some regular pink fiji sand? in a bag, then i added it with a product called "bio activ? live sand but it doesnt look like its doing much

 

[snipe]

I agree with this to an extent. Like the nut said that is there function to produce it into nitrates. Without these then algaes and such get to use the amonia source and then you have aglae problems and still nitrates so no matter what its nitrates in the end.
IMO the best way to get read of the amonia and nitrates is to have biological "wet/dry" and a fuge. The wet/dry gets read of the amonia and nitrites and the fuge takes care of the nitrates "not all of them of course". What the fuge misses you get in water changes.

 

[1journeyman]

Live rock and sand provide plenty of surface area for bacteria. Why are bio balls neccessary?

 

[lion_crazz]

I agree with what Snipe said, but honestly, if you do not have an overstocked tank and you do not overfeed, a proper size fuge should take your nitrates down to 0. Most of us on here though have a little of an overstocking problem. I am not saying that we have problems with our tanks, but that is why we gravel clean. If it was not overstocked/overfed and we had the proper size fuge, there would be no issue with nitrates. That is what I hope with my on-the-way 210.