Bang, Squidd....Anyone who can answer this..Please

[jess74]

I'm sure you guys are getting sick of me by now and I'm sorry; but..... Remember my High Calcium problem? Well I got my new test kits (Salifert) and this is what my reading were today:
Calcium 495
dKH 15.4
Alk 5.49 meq/L
I'm going to be changing my CC to sand next weekend and I was wondering should I plan on doing a large water change at the same time? Or is there something that should be done now? I still am baffled as to why it is so high :notsure: Any suggestions?? PLEASE! :yes:
If you need to know my other reading were:
PH 8.2
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 10
Salinity 1.025 (Got a refractometer, so I know its right now! )

 

[thomas712]

Calcium @ 495 is perfect or 450 if you like
Alkalinity @ 15.4 is high, keep it around 11 dKH
11.0 dKH should be @ 3.93 meq/L
Just let it ride for a while as the alkalinity drops let it go, as the calcium drops dose to maintain.
I've had my alk up that high before. a couple of small water changes if you like can fix that.
Thomas

 

[jess74]

Thanks for the response Thomas! The thing is I've been doing small water changes and the number just seem to be rising. :notsure: I totally stopped adding anything to my tank, except of course the food for fish, inverts. etc. I thought that Calcium should be around 460? This is all so confusing! What I really want to know is why won't it go down, it only rises?
Now the last calcium test was using a different kit and then it was 460, I think.
You don't think I should worry about it? Or do a large water change at the same time I change my CC? :notsure:

 

[thomas712]

I have to wonder if the crushed coral is somehow really buffering the heck out of your tank.
I'd like to see the alk come down
Have you tested the water change water to see what it reads?
Thomas

 

[jess74]

As far as everything or just Calcium (on the change water)?
I tested it for Cal and it was 400, did check anything else. Should I?
Yeah, I was wondering too what kind of effect the CC had on all the water parameters?
I know my Nitrates were getting really high, so I lowered my feedings to 1x/day and started the water changes. I wasn't overfeeding at 2x/day, but the levels just started to rise. I read on here that the CC holds Nitrates, so I assumed that was what was happening. Then my Cal just started to go up, slowly at first then boom it hit 460 and slowed down again, but still increased.

 

[007]

I guess its possible that the CC could be buffering, but that would mean that pH would have to be low . . . really low.
I am beginning to question your salt mix.
What salt mix are you using, and exactly how are you mixing it? How long do you let it sit before you add it to the tank?

 

[shrkbait]

are you adding any reef supplements or calcium buffer supplements? What type of water are you using in your salt mix or replacement water for evaportation purposes?

 

[jess74]

I use Reef Crystals, however I decided to change to the new Oceanic salt; since I'm about out of my other I've already bought some of the Oceanic, but have yet to use any.
I use RO water
I have a 5 gal container that I put the RO in, I have an air pump that I use to aerate the water; I put this in before adding the salt. Then I measure out the salt and slowly dump it in while stirring. I let it aerate for at least 24 hours before using it. Most of the time its like 1 1/2-2 days before I use it.
If my mix only test at 400 for Cal, why would that cause this problem?

 

[shrkbait]

sounds like your doing evryting right. THat is a mystrery.

 

[thomas712]

Originally posted by Jess74
If my mix only test at 400 for Cal, why would that cause this problem?
It doesn't, this is just a process of elimination. So if ph is alright what is bumping it up? Again the crushed coral? :notsure:
Just curious but if you ever get the chance have your mag tested, I don't see it as a problem but just curious.
Thomas

 

[jess74]

Yeah, I thought I was doing everything right too, but something is wrong!
The thing is nobody seems to know WHAT is wrong! I sure I'm dreaming but I'm really hoping that changing my CC will even some of this out. I know its not a cure-all, but I don't know what else to do. I'm really curious as to what my water tests will be after CC.

 

[jess74]

Thomas-
I can't buy any good test kits at my LFS, so I would need to order one online. How important is testing this?

 

[squidd]

Magnesium is important in that it's the "balancing" point holding calcium and alk levels steady...
It's not "critical" that you test for it but it would be interesting to know what level your at...
Mag level should be around 1250 to 1300 with calcium 450 to 500 and alk 11 to 12 maybe a little higher...
Seems strange that that if your WC water is 400 calcium keeps going up...:notsure: Have you tested the Alk level of your WC water?
Reef Crystals have been pretty consistent, but you never know...
Do you have any calcium consuming lifeforms in your tank...hows your coraline growth...should be spreading all over the place...

 

[jess74]

Squidd-
Thanks for joining in the mystery calcium discussion! :yes:
Hmm, no I never checked the change water for Alk level. I'll do that today.
Right now the only thing I have that consumes Calcium, if you can even count that is my 2 shrimp, oh, and the coral that is growing on my x-mas tree rock.
The strange thing is, my Coralline growth was really good, rocks were getting covered nice. However it has since slowed down and I really don't notice a huge amount of growth. I have NO coralline growth on anything other then my LR, I thought this was strange that it wasn't spreading like mad?
Unfortunately I double checked at my LFS today and they don't even carry any Mag tests. Should I bother ordering one just for curiosity sake? Could I wait until after I change my CC and if the Cal is still high, then I'll get one?
:notsure:

 

[broomer5]

Personally I would not introduce aragonite sand into the tankwater with elevated calcium and carbonate/bicarbonate levels.
I would first focus on the water chemistry - get it closer to that of natural seatwater - then proceed with changing out the CC with sand.
The pH of the display tank must be different than the pH of the newly mixed saltwater. That is the only thing I can think of that would cause the calcium/alk to rise after a water change.
Or - your RO membrane has blown a hole in it and your getting calicum/minerals into the newly mixed saltwater.
Not sure though

 

[jess74]

Ok, here is what I did; since I couldn't let it sit overnight maybe it was a waste of time, but here it is:
I mixed up 2 small batches a salt water, one was Reef Crystals and the other was Oceanic (the finished mix was about 1/2 C.). I first stirred the salt in really well, then I aerated both for 10-15 min. Both were mixed at 1.025 Salinity; Here are the results:
Reef Crystals
PH 8.2
dKH 15.5
Alk. 5.50
Cal. 485
Nitrate 0
Oceanic
PH 8.2
dKH 15.2
Alk. 5.43
Cal. 498
Nitrate 0
Is it just me or are those numbers a little strange? :notsure: I really don't know what to do!
Do I go ahead with my CC change?
Do I try different salt mix?
Since everything seems to be doing well and thriving, do I just wait and see??
:help: :notsure:

 

[squidd]

Aerate those two "sample" batches and test again in 24 hrs...
If your still getting those kind of numbers from two different salt brands and your tank (and I'm suspecting you will...:thinking: )I would suspect 1.the test kits (not too likely being Salifert) or 2. your testing "proceedure"...Are you reading the titration syringe on the correct side of the rubber stopper?...
If your "sure" your procedure is accurate...Then test your RO water for calcium and alk (or a TDS test) they should be 0 or extremely low...if not it looks like the membrane took a dump.

 

[spmnarciso]

Newbie question...Can't we just assume that the CC maybe keeping those levels high which is good for the calcium part of it and not so good for the alk though. And it has to do with the salt mix. Shouldn't you keep the CC?

 

[squidd]

spmnarciso: while "aragonite" based substrates (CC,aragonite sand,or even LR) have "some" buffering capabilities,compared to say "Black Tahitian Sand" or "Silica" sand which has None, they only "help" in "maintaining" calcium and alk levels and would not bring about an increase such as the one Jess 74 is asking about...unless the pH was below 7 at which point they would dissolve and an increase would be "measurable".
As Jess 74's pH is at a more "normal" level it is very unlikely that this is the case...
The main argument against CC is that the "coarser" grade tends to trap detritus (fish poop, rotting food) which if not "vacuumed" out on a regular basis can cause Ammonia,NitrIte,NitrAte levels to rise as it decomposes...
Sand being a finer grade will not trap and build up this excess of nutrients and is easier to "maintain" a clean system.

 

[jess74]

Squidd-
I'm fairly sure I'm doing the test right; When drawing the fluid the syringe is upside-down, so you would read the bottom edge of the black, which, when turned right side up it would be the top, right?
BTW- I forgot to mention in my last post, I don't have an RO unit, I buy my water from a place that only has RO. And I'm sure that it is really RO. I will test the RO for the Cal and Alk and see what I get.
spmnarciso-
After all I've read on the CC, I just don't want it anymore! Besides, from all my reading; I don't think that Calcium at almost 500 is good, I would much rather keep mine around 460 or so. I'm really not sure that it is the salt though, I've been using the same salt for over 2 months now, and my Calcium jump has just been within the last month. I think anyway, time goes so fast, I should double check on that.
Are you a CC fan?