Blue Hippo Tang with ick

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
squirreloso you're wasting your breath. I'm having the same argument with sep, journeyman, and others on another thread about ich. They essential think anything except hypo or copper treatment for ich is a waste of time. But therein lies the problem. Sep says "Come over to the D&T forum and read about all the ich cases". OK, where is all this ich coming from? I just got reading another ich post from someone he adamately told her to do hypo, and she did it for six weeks. She still has ich, and has already lost one of her tangs. Now after stressing out all her fish for six weeks, he wants her to do copper to try and rid the rest of her fish of ich. Sep is telling her the ich came back in her QT tank simply because she let her water get up to 1.010 for two days. You're telling me ich can survive and spread like it did to her fish just because of a .001 difference in salinity? I have a good refractometer, and I don't even know if I could get my water to stay that accurate for 3 weeks. I'll ask anyone in this thread -- how do you confirm you do or don't have ich in your tank? Is there some test you can perform to find out? Can you see ich in a microscope? The claim is ich will be out of your tank if you run it fishless for a minimum of 6 weeks. How do you confirm this?
Yes Rudedog, that is EXACTLY why the person that you mentioned had a failed hypo. She did not perform hyposalinity treatment correctly and she is well aware of that. If you perform a copper treatment and do not maintain your levels then the copper level becomes unsafe as well, it is a treatment that needs to be done the propper way or it will NOT work. I do not appreciate being slammed by you all of the time RD. I have had many people tell me all about their "new" way to treat ich and they come back and ask for help. We don't make this stuff up as we go along. It is time tested and works everytime as long as it is done correctly as with any other treatment. Please, any of you, if you have used alternative methods to treat ich and have never seen ich in your tank again after one year then tell us all about it. Maybe there is something that we are all missing here.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Cooqie
im so confused i dont know what to think no more
I am so terribly sorry that everyone picked your thread to have a debate on. It is not usualy like this on SWF. Please don't get discouraged. This happens to be a hot topic at the moment. If you want direct help, post in Disease and Treatment. You can also PM any of us if you want.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
Yes Rudedog, that is EXACTLY why the person that you mentioned had a failed hypo. She did not perform hyposalinity treatment correctly and she is well aware of that. If you perform a copper treatment and do not maintain your levels then the copper level becomes unsafe as well, it is a treatment that needs to be done the propper way or it will NOT work. I do not appreciate being slammed by you all of the time RD. I have had many people tell me all about their "new" way to treat ich and they come back and ask for help. We don't make this stuff up as we go along. It is time tested and works everytime as long as it is done correctly as with any other treatment. Please, any of you, if you have used alternative methods to treat ich and have never seen ich in your tank again after one year then tell us all about it. Maybe there is something that we are all missing here.

LOL. Every post I read on ich, you're the first one that pops up with the same exact questions - "What are you water parameters? You say they are perfect, but we need to SEE what they are." "Go to the Disease forum and read the ich post. Get all your fish in a QT immediately and start hypo."
If someone says all their chemical levels are normal, 99% of the time they understand that means that their ammonia, nitrate, and nitrites are at zero. You treat some of the posters on this board as if they were children and don't understand how to do a simple chemical test.
You are the leader of the 'pro hypo' crusade. You encourage every single person who posts about an ich problem to start hypo immediately. However, I can recall reading numerous posts on people who did hypo, and they come back three or four weeks later saying "My fish still have ich." You place blame on them for not doing the hypo procedure properly, then either have them try it again, or lead them to copper treatment, which seems to be a risky procedure from what I've read about copper. Sorry, but doing hypo and copper may be the defacto procedure for curing ich, but it seems that unless you follow the procedure to a tee, it's just as useless as trying to treat the ich with meds. You all scoff, and say it's nothing to keep the salinity at 1.009 for 3 weeks. Well with the number of failed hypos I've read in the last couple of months, apparently it's not as easy for some people as it is for you. And copper? Don't follow that treatment exactly, and your fish are dead.
Right now, it's been over two months since I treated my blue hippo for ich with Ich Attack and garlic. He's growing every day, and is the first to come to the front of the tank when I show up with food. I've added three other fish since he had ich, and not one of them has had any ich symptoms. If I'm still in this hobby 10 months from now, you'll be the first to know whether I've had any other ich breakouts.

 

[stevechouinard]

Heres what I did and it worked
Bump up your tanks temp to about 82 if your Fish only (theroy behind this is because the fish are cold blooded the tempature controls there bodys function and for me my fish are more active with the temp higher which means there immune systems are more active) once you no longer show the signs of ich drop it back down. I used extreme Garlic which is a very strong extract to soak food in and also added some to the water from time to time. Reduce your lighting time again if your fish only, because rest is good for the fish to become stress free. Feed really good food and make sure nothing is picking on that fish I did all of this because I have a starfish so hypo is not an option and I have no QT. I did this for a month and my fish is ich free I understand its still in my system but hes doing great and showing no signs of it... Hypo may work but sometimes its not an option I also slowly increased my salinity from 1.023 to 1.025 by adding salt water for top offs which I believe is the safest way i never realized i need the higher salinity for my starfish untill this forum so some of it is useful information but everyone has different methods and this is what worked for me.... I am no expert but this all worked wonders for me and my fish are happy

Also putting copper in your tank pretty much means that you might never be able to keep corals healthy... Try these simple steps before you do anything crazy and end up killing all of your fish

 

[1journeyman]

Steve, your salinity was low. Stars especially do not do well in low salinity. reef/invert tanks should be kept at natural seawater sg which is 1.026.
Glad to hear your fish is healthy.

 

[stevechouinard]

Yea i never knew that, although my star did well for over a year at 1.023 but i think by next week i should be at 1.026 and everything should be thriveing and not just surviveing

 

[1journeyman]

Sweet.

 

[petjunkie]

I think the point should be made that if people would just properly qt in the first place there would be no need to fight over treatment or just letting your fish live with it. Problem with just letting it go is if your tank ever has a sudden change, (new fish, drastic temp change, etc) ich might blow up all over again, this I have seen happen. My personal approach is stocking suited to my tanks, small fish like gobies, grammas, etc that are extremely hardy and not disease prone and only buying from reputable places, I do qt new corals and fish just in case but have never had a problem except for brook which was treated in the qt the fish was in to begin with.

 

[1journeyman]

Good points Pet.

 

[rudedog40]

I've been reading up more on the cycle of ich. I fully understand the different stages. So this is the question of the day -- everyone who says to keep the tank fishless for six weeks to completely kill the ich state you do this because the ich parasite requires a host to live. They also state that you go with the six week timeframe because if the ich parasite has no host after this period of time, the cycle gets broken and they die off.
I have seen no indication of ich on any of my fish for over 8 weeks now. So I am past the six week life cycle of ich. So if that's the case, then I can assume that the ich in my tank has met it's cycle, all has died, and I no longer have ich in my tank. Now, the neysayers will state that the ich isn't dead, that it is still living on the inside tissue of my fish. However, I dispel this theory. Every scientific thread I've read on the life cycle of ich states that if you have the parasite, you will see it externally on your fish at some point of the cycle. If the parasite was living on the inside tissue of any of my fish, I would have seen some indication of that by now (fish stressing to breathe, not eating properly, swimming erratically, etc.). I am not seeing any type of changes in food habits or other signs of any of my fish being distressed. So if that's the case, I can now agree with all of you that say that ich is not always in your tank, and my DT is now ich free.

 

[1journeyman]

From what I've read Ich often attaches inside the gills of fish.

I hope you are free of it though. It is truely a scourge in our hobby.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
From what I've read Ich often attaches inside the gills of fish.

I hope you are free of it though. It is truely a scourge in our hobby.

Yes. And that's why I'm told I still have ich in my tank. But wouldn't you think that if a fish has ich attached to the inside of their gills, they would be exhibiting some type of stress or reaction? I would think they wouldn't be eating right, trying to do the rock scratching, something. I just don't see that on any of my fish, especially the tang who was the only fish that had it in the first place. Guess that's the most frustrating part of this parasite. The only sure indication that you have ich is if you see the little white spots. Otherwise, you're just guessing, and hoping that what they say about the ich life cycle is true.

 

[squirreloso]

i'm still for the "ich aint no big deal" theory

next halloween im going to go as an ICH parasite, though i still cant decide if i should go as a Theront or a Tomite?

im open to suggestions

 

[waterlogged]

If everyone took a glass of water from their DT to a lab would they all have ich?

 

[squirreloso]

Originally Posted by Waterlogged
If everyone took a glass of water from their DT to a lab would they all have ich?
it depends
i know my three year old reef would test for ich even though my fish are ich free because i dont QT anything
now someone who QT's everything and hasnt added anything new to their tank for a few years then yes there is a chance that their system is ich free
i for one believe that 98% of hobbyests tanks DO have ich even though their fish dont show any signs or are bothered by the parasite, regardless of the QT method
this is my opinion, and im sure others will disagree, well of course they will dont be rediculous

this is what i believe, and i stand by it

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Waterlogged
If everyone took a glass of water from their DT to a lab would they all have ich?
I would compare that to taking a picture of everyone's backyard to see if everyone has a pet llama. The answer is: Nope.
Ich is common in the hobby because it breeds well in captivity. I've never seen it on a fish in the wild however.

 

[squirreloso]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I would compare that to taking a picture of everyone's backyard to see if everyone has a pet llama. The answer is: Nope.
Ich is common in the hobby because it breeds well in captivity. I've never seen it on a fish in the wild however.
you've never seen it on a wild fish but of course the ocean is filled with ich and tons of other parasites.
our pet fish are loaded with parasites and worms. QT does nothing for whats living in their gut.
parasites are everywhere, sea and land. our dogs have it, our cats have it, sometimes even people have parasites in their stomache and dont even know it. bed bugs, lice, giardia, tape worms etc.
its called life
you act as if there is such a thing as a parasite free world..tanks included!
do you live in a bubble?
FALSE, parasites are everywhere

 

[1journeyman]

Hehe, I do have a degree in Biology

I know parasites are everywhere. I'm not sure what you read that made you think I was saying otherwise?
The point is, walk into several pet stores and you'll see ich. I worked for a Wholesaler (for 3 days... it was a "killing field" and I refused to be a part of it) and saw Ich everywhere.
That said, nature deals with parasitic infections far better than we do. The weak and infected often are preyed upon. While the ocean is full of parasites, it is also full of water. There is a vast amount of water out there to dilute problems. Not every fish in the ocean has ich (or any other parasite), by any stretch of the imagination.
That's all I was pointing out.

 

[waterlogged]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I would compare that to taking a picture of everyone's backyard to see if everyone has a pet llama. The answer is: Nope.
Ich is common in the hobby because it breeds well in captivity. I've never seen it on a fish in the wild however.
I can look in my backyard and be certain of no llama's. Can you look in your aquarium and be certain there is no ich.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Waterlogged
I can look in my backyard and be certain of no llama's. Can you look in your aquarium and be certain there is no ich.
I don't have to look in my aquarium to know that there is no Ich.

The free swimming phase is really a small phase overall of the parasite's life. You could very conceivably take a cup of water from a heavily infected tank,stain a slide, look under the microscope and not see the parasite.
That's all i'm saying. Ich is a known parasite with a known and documented life cycle.