Building sump/refugium out of two 10 Gallon Tanks
- Thread starter richamc01
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acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/20#post_3471421
The water coming from the fuge and dumping into the return pump section will cause microbubbles. You should have it drop into the skimmer section instead, just before your baffles to your return pump.
The water coming from the fuge back to the return section if done correctly won't cause micro bubbles.....We designed Flowers that way and I ran way overkill on pump testing and was perfect.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/20#post_3471419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richamc01 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/20#post_3471394
alright. I think I may have gotten it right this time...I fell like im practically stealing your design and I hope that isnt an issue...
So i think that this is going to work. Also i plan to use the sc150 skimmer from scaquariums. They also have the 65 gallon model. Do you think that the 65 gallon model would be stong enough for my 55 gallon tank after adding the additional 20 gallon sump? I plan to have a pretty heavy load in my tank and i dont want to short myself on the skimmer.
Also im not sure about which overflow or return pump to use. do you have any recommendations?
You are in very good hands already. But I thought I would chime in.
I really don't see a need for the third baffle in between the skimmer section and the return pump section. The first two should do the job. This will give you more space in the return section which will mean more water volume to evaporate before you need to top off.
Also, the reason Shawn was asking about your skimmer, and return pump choice, is that it will effect the sections you want to keep them in. You can do a search online on the skimmer choice you made and find the optimum operating level (for example it might run best in 10" of water or 8"). If you go with a baffle that is too high you can always use something to boost up the skimmer (egg crate), but if you make them too small you can't do anything. For your return pump the section needs to be big enough to house the pump and have a large enough total volume so you are not topping off water twice a day (unless that is your objective). 10g is not that big and your first designs with multiple baffles would make your return section about 1.5-2g
The ball valve on the fuge section is good. As said, it will allow you to dial the flow into the fuge and anything dialed back will just go into the other tank with the skimmer.
Not that it is the right way but I have a ball valve on my drain line just off the bulk head from the DT. But I have the drain line running about 8-10 feet going into a fish room. I like being able to totally shut off the drain and stop any flow going into the sump for maintenance. I also have a ball valve going from the return pump to the DT. This is so I can stop the back siphon before the air hole in the return does. Not needed but I like the control. There are lots of different ways to do it. For example I do not have any three baffle bubble traps in my 67g sump. It just has three sections, sectioned off by a single glass baffle. And I have never had any issues with micro bubbles. There is a guy on here that has a sump with no baffles at all just one big sump tank, the water is all at the same level.
Have you checked into a true union ball valve?? Or unions?? I used unions in my setup just in case something needs to be changed out. Then I can remove the section using the union and redo it.
What kind of overflow are you using?? Is it a U tube siphon type or is your tank drilled?
Huh......Once the pumps are turned off and the water level drop to a certain level in the overflow box you won't get any water flow through the plumbing anyways to the sump......
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/20#post_3471421
The water coming from the fuge and dumping into the return pump section will cause microbubbles. You should have it drop into the skimmer section instead, just before your baffles to your return pump.
The water coming from the fuge back to the return section if done correctly won't cause micro bubbles.....We designed Flowers that way and I ran way overkill on pump testing and was perfect.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/20#post_3471419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richamc01 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/20#post_3471394
alright. I think I may have gotten it right this time...I fell like im practically stealing your design and I hope that isnt an issue...
So i think that this is going to work. Also i plan to use the sc150 skimmer from scaquariums. They also have the 65 gallon model. Do you think that the 65 gallon model would be stong enough for my 55 gallon tank after adding the additional 20 gallon sump? I plan to have a pretty heavy load in my tank and i dont want to short myself on the skimmer.
Also im not sure about which overflow or return pump to use. do you have any recommendations?
You are in very good hands already. But I thought I would chime in.
I really don't see a need for the third baffle in between the skimmer section and the return pump section. The first two should do the job. This will give you more space in the return section which will mean more water volume to evaporate before you need to top off.
Also, the reason Shawn was asking about your skimmer, and return pump choice, is that it will effect the sections you want to keep them in. You can do a search online on the skimmer choice you made and find the optimum operating level (for example it might run best in 10" of water or 8"). If you go with a baffle that is too high you can always use something to boost up the skimmer (egg crate), but if you make them too small you can't do anything. For your return pump the section needs to be big enough to house the pump and have a large enough total volume so you are not topping off water twice a day (unless that is your objective). 10g is not that big and your first designs with multiple baffles would make your return section about 1.5-2g
The ball valve on the fuge section is good. As said, it will allow you to dial the flow into the fuge and anything dialed back will just go into the other tank with the skimmer.
Not that it is the right way but I have a ball valve on my drain line just off the bulk head from the DT. But I have the drain line running about 8-10 feet going into a fish room. I like being able to totally shut off the drain and stop any flow going into the sump for maintenance. I also have a ball valve going from the return pump to the DT. This is so I can stop the back siphon before the air hole in the return does. Not needed but I like the control. There are lots of different ways to do it. For example I do not have any three baffle bubble traps in my 67g sump. It just has three sections, sectioned off by a single glass baffle. And I have never had any issues with micro bubbles. There is a guy on here that has a sump with no baffles at all just one big sump tank, the water is all at the same level.
Have you checked into a true union ball valve?? Or unions?? I used unions in my setup just in case something needs to be changed out. Then I can remove the section using the union and redo it.
What kind of overflow are you using?? Is it a U tube siphon type or is your tank drilled?
Huh......Once the pumps are turned off and the water level drop to a certain level in the overflow box you won't get any water flow through the plumbing anyways to the sump......
acrylic51
Active Member
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2quills
Well-Known Member
What do you guys think about this?
Drawn with the SC-150 and a Mag 3 pump in mind..
Skimmer & DSB (fuge) section are each 12" wide or 24" combined.
Sump/Return section 8" wide for each tank or combined total of 16" between the two tanks.
This would allow a little more forgiveness when it comes to doing top off.
The Mag 3 (or equivalent) would leave you with roughly 210-270 gph at 4-5 ft of head pressure on the pump.
Drawn with the SC-150 and a Mag 3 pump in mind..
Skimmer & DSB (fuge) section are each 12" wide or 24" combined.
Sump/Return section 8" wide for each tank or combined total of 16" between the two tanks.
This would allow a little more forgiveness when it comes to doing top off.
The Mag 3 (or equivalent) would leave you with roughly 210-270 gph at 4-5 ft of head pressure on the pump.
acrylic51
Active Member
Corey I like the layout, but 2 things really concern me......(1) Possible micro bubbles from the skimmer.....and the baffle setup....Might not really be an issue, but seems possible for the bubbles to not really rise in the rubble rock area and be sucked across and right into the pump volute......My only thought......The other is I still see no real reason for 2 baffles in the fuge area......The edge on the glass should be so smooth the water would glide over top and shouldn't create any disturbance.....
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471571
Corey I like the layout, but 2 things really concern me......(1) Possible micro bubbles from the skimmer.....and the baffle setup....Might not really be an issue, but seems possible for the bubbles to not really rise in the rubble rock area and be sucked across and right into the pump volute......My only thought......The other is I still see no real reason for 2 baffles in the fuge area......The edge on the glass should be so smooth the water would glide over top and shouldn't create any disturbance.....
Micro bubbles have to rise to the top of the first baffle no matter what so I'm thinking that unless the current of flow is too strong then it shouldn't be an issue any more so than a 3 baffle trap. But that's another reason for a larger return area. The drain is at the bottom of the tank so unless there's a huge suction than those bubbles really shouldn't make it that far, plus the rock work could help break that up as well if were an issue.
The reason why I would add the extra baffle in the fuge tank is to help direct the flow out of the fuge (hopefully with some pods) discharges right next to the pump for easy ride to the tank. Plus it doesn't hurt anything IMO as it's not really taking any volume away from the return chamber itself.
Just a thought. Although I'm still curious to see how this is all gonna fit under a 55g. And I think the SC-65 skimmer would be the more appropriate skimmer size unless they make one in the middle ground somewhere between it and the SC-150.
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471571
Corey I like the layout, but 2 things really concern me......(1) Possible micro bubbles from the skimmer.....and the baffle setup....Might not really be an issue, but seems possible for the bubbles to not really rise in the rubble rock area and be sucked across and right into the pump volute......My only thought......The other is I still see no real reason for 2 baffles in the fuge area......The edge on the glass should be so smooth the water would glide over top and shouldn't create any disturbance.....
Micro bubbles have to rise to the top of the first baffle no matter what so I'm thinking that unless the current of flow is too strong then it shouldn't be an issue any more so than a 3 baffle trap. But that's another reason for a larger return area. The drain is at the bottom of the tank so unless there's a huge suction than those bubbles really shouldn't make it that far, plus the rock work could help break that up as well if were an issue.
The reason why I would add the extra baffle in the fuge tank is to help direct the flow out of the fuge (hopefully with some pods) discharges right next to the pump for easy ride to the tank. Plus it doesn't hurt anything IMO as it's not really taking any volume away from the return chamber itself.
Just a thought. Although I'm still curious to see how this is all gonna fit under a 55g. And I think the SC-65 skimmer would be the more appropriate skimmer size unless they make one in the middle ground somewhere between it and the SC-150.
richamc01
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471561
What do you guys think about this?
Drawn with the SC-150 and a Mag 3 pump in mind..
Skimmer & DSB (fuge) section are each 12" wide or 24" combined.
Sump/Return section 8" wide for each tank or combined total of 16" between the two tanks.
This would allow a little more forgiveness when it comes to doing top off.
The Mag 3 (or equivalent) would leave you with roughly 210-270 gph at 4-5 ft of head pressure on the pump.
Cory...I appreciate you taking the time to draw this up. I do like the layout. I was looking forward to using one of my 10 gallons only as the fuge...it may not work as i havent really had the time to do the measurements. I was going to do this tonight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471572
That SC 150 is rated for what......From what I recall from Seth it's rather large and overkill for a 55
the only reason I was going with the 150 is because the only other model they offer is the 65. the 150 is rated at 150 gallons and then 65 is rated at 65 gallons. I currently have a 55 gallon. Dont i need to take into consideration the other 20 gallons that will be added to my system? granted they will not be totally full but i would rather have a skimmer that is too big than too small. Is my thinking correct here?
Im going to take some measurements tonight and get the skimmer footprint and draw it up with all of the measurements on it. hopefully it all fits...
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471561
What do you guys think about this?
Drawn with the SC-150 and a Mag 3 pump in mind..
Skimmer & DSB (fuge) section are each 12" wide or 24" combined.
Sump/Return section 8" wide for each tank or combined total of 16" between the two tanks.
This would allow a little more forgiveness when it comes to doing top off.
The Mag 3 (or equivalent) would leave you with roughly 210-270 gph at 4-5 ft of head pressure on the pump.
Cory...I appreciate you taking the time to draw this up. I do like the layout. I was looking forward to using one of my 10 gallons only as the fuge...it may not work as i havent really had the time to do the measurements. I was going to do this tonight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471572
That SC 150 is rated for what......From what I recall from Seth it's rather large and overkill for a 55
the only reason I was going with the 150 is because the only other model they offer is the 65. the 150 is rated at 150 gallons and then 65 is rated at 65 gallons. I currently have a 55 gallon. Dont i need to take into consideration the other 20 gallons that will be added to my system? granted they will not be totally full but i would rather have a skimmer that is too big than too small. Is my thinking correct here?
Im going to take some measurements tonight and get the skimmer footprint and draw it up with all of the measurements on it. hopefully it all fits...
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471574
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471571
Corey I like the layout, but 2 things really concern me......(1) Possible micro bubbles from the skimmer.....and the baffle setup....Might not really be an issue, but seems possible for the bubbles to not really rise in the rubble rock area and be sucked across and right into the pump volute......My only thought......The other is I still see no real reason for 2 baffles in the fuge area......The edge on the glass should be so smooth the water would glide over top and shouldn't create any disturbance.....
Micro bubbles have to rise to the top of the first baffle no matter what so I'm thinking that unless the current of flow is too strong then it shouldn't be an issue any more so than a 3 baffle trap. But that's another reason for a larger return area. The drain is at the bottom of the tank so unless there's a huge suction than those bubbles really shouldn't make it that far, plus the rock work could help break that up as well if were an issue.
The reason why I would add the extra baffle in the fuge tank is to help direct the flow out of the fuge (hopefully with some pods) discharges right next to the pump for easy ride to the tank. Plus it doesn't hurt anything IMO as it's not really taking any volume away from the return chamber itself.
Just a thought. Although I'm still curious to see how this is all gonna fit under a 55g. And I think the SC-65 skimmer would be the more appropriate skimmer size unless they make one in the middle ground somewhere between it and the SC-150.
That was my concern if the pull was to strong.....It shouldn't be theoretically, but who knows......
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471574
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471571
Corey I like the layout, but 2 things really concern me......(1) Possible micro bubbles from the skimmer.....and the baffle setup....Might not really be an issue, but seems possible for the bubbles to not really rise in the rubble rock area and be sucked across and right into the pump volute......My only thought......The other is I still see no real reason for 2 baffles in the fuge area......The edge on the glass should be so smooth the water would glide over top and shouldn't create any disturbance.....
Micro bubbles have to rise to the top of the first baffle no matter what so I'm thinking that unless the current of flow is too strong then it shouldn't be an issue any more so than a 3 baffle trap. But that's another reason for a larger return area. The drain is at the bottom of the tank so unless there's a huge suction than those bubbles really shouldn't make it that far, plus the rock work could help break that up as well if were an issue.
The reason why I would add the extra baffle in the fuge tank is to help direct the flow out of the fuge (hopefully with some pods) discharges right next to the pump for easy ride to the tank. Plus it doesn't hurt anything IMO as it's not really taking any volume away from the return chamber itself.
Just a thought. Although I'm still curious to see how this is all gonna fit under a 55g. And I think the SC-65 skimmer would be the more appropriate skimmer size unless they make one in the middle ground somewhere between it and the SC-150.
That was my concern if the pull was to strong.....It shouldn't be theoretically, but who knows......
2quills
Well-Known Member
That was my concern if the pull was to strong.....It shouldn't be theoretically, but who knows......
Well if it is I think youd run into issue either way. But thats always workable. This is one case where id deffinitly opt for slower turnover rate for the sump fuge.
No prob on the sketch dude. Ive got lots of em. I dont know how practical it would be to acheive anyway under your stand. Room is always an issue. But im with Seth in the idea that these tanks are very short and is going to case you to be a slave to topping off your system unless you invest in an ATO. Pluss it left more room for backflow when the system gets shut down.
Did I miss a list of stand measuremens?
richamc01
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471613
Well if it is I think youd run into issue either way. But thats always workable. This is one case where id deffinitly opt for slower turnover rate for the sump fuge.
No prob on the sketch dude. Ive got lots of em. I dont know how practical it would be to acheive anyway under your stand. Room is always an issue. But im with Seth in the idea that these tanks are very short and is going to case you to be a slave to topping off your system unless you invest in an ATO. Pluss it left more room for backflow when the system gets shut down.
Did I miss a list of stand measuremens?
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471648
I don't think he ever really gave measurements.....I remember some pics and there's a funky center support, but it actually divides the bottom of the stand into 2 sections......
sorry guys its been a super busy day. I never did post the measurements of the stand. I should be able to post up some measurements of the stand and a drawing of the two tanks with all of the measurements on it tomorrow. i know that a 10g tank will fit on either side. it may be tight but they will fit. I plan to use this thread for my entire build and hopefully some help along the way. ill be posting pics as I go for anyone who may have to do the same thing I am.
I do appreciate all of the help you guys have provided....you too Flower...
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471613
Well if it is I think youd run into issue either way. But thats always workable. This is one case where id deffinitly opt for slower turnover rate for the sump fuge.
No prob on the sketch dude. Ive got lots of em. I dont know how practical it would be to acheive anyway under your stand. Room is always an issue. But im with Seth in the idea that these tanks are very short and is going to case you to be a slave to topping off your system unless you invest in an ATO. Pluss it left more room for backflow when the system gets shut down.
Did I miss a list of stand measuremens?
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471648
I don't think he ever really gave measurements.....I remember some pics and there's a funky center support, but it actually divides the bottom of the stand into 2 sections......
sorry guys its been a super busy day. I never did post the measurements of the stand. I should be able to post up some measurements of the stand and a drawing of the two tanks with all of the measurements on it tomorrow. i know that a 10g tank will fit on either side. it may be tight but they will fit. I plan to use this thread for my entire build and hopefully some help along the way. ill be posting pics as I go for anyone who may have to do the same thing I am.
I do appreciate all of the help you guys have provided....you too Flower...
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
The sc65 is plenty for a 55g tank. The sc150 would be overkill.
richamc01
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471805
The sc65 is plenty for a 55g tank. The sc150 would be overkill.
ill go with the sc65 then...It was a smaller footprint anyways
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/391426/building-sump-refugium-out-of-two-10-gallon-tanks/40#post_3471805
The sc65 is plenty for a 55g tank. The sc150 would be overkill.
ill go with the sc65 then...It was a smaller footprint anyways
richamc01
Member
so I think im going to make the bubble trap identical to the one on flowers build. I was planning to make it 3"X3" Is this big enough in your opinion?
Ive been reading through flowers build thread and man that literally reads like a book. Its awesome what everyone did for her. I've only gotten to page 65 and im blown away. I cant wait to read more on that thread!
Ive been reading through flowers build thread and man that literally reads like a book. Its awesome what everyone did for her. I've only gotten to page 65 and im blown away. I cant wait to read more on that thread!