Bullying

[crimzy]

In recent years bullying has become a hot-button issue in society. The rash of teen suicides and mass shootings have caused this country to take a closer look at the issue of bullying, and most states have enacted anti-bullying statutes and regulations for schools to follow. I just took on a new client who has been subjected to bullying at his high school so it has gotten me thinking.
Back in my day (I hate that phrase), and probably for as long as schools have been in existence, bullying has been a part of youth socialization. Growing up, it was just something that kids had to deal with... almost a rite of passage. People used to think that getting through those kinds of childhood issues built character.
Nowadays we are much more concerned about protecting children from pretty much everything. This may be a shift in the mindset of parents but I also think that it's in response to the trend of violence by both bullies and their victims. Mass murderers don't seem to be the John Wayne Gacy's or Ted Bundy's of the world, they are now kids bringing guns to school and shooting as many people as they can. Unfortunately, so many parents (not mentioning any names), think it's a great idea to give weapons to kids and teach them how to use them.
There are so many problems involved in the bullying issue, however. How can the school enforce anti-bullying laws? Is simple teasing going to be basis for disciplinary action in every situation? I foresee a major problem in the school trying to interpret the cause of kids fighting also... ie. is the kid punching the other kid in the face the bully or the victim of bullying finally fighting back? Granted, there are egregious situations where the bullying is clear, however I think that for most instances, the situation is extremely difficult for the school to analyze properly.
What should be done, if anything? Is the trend of anti-bullying regulations going in the right direction, or do you subscribe to the traditional view of letting kids bear their own burdens in the process of growing up?
What do y'all think?

 

[darthtang aw]

Unfortunately, so many parents (not mentioning any names), think it's a great idea to give weapons to kids and teach them how to use them. 
What does this have to do with bullying? Just because I bought a rifle for my children does not mean it is sitting in their room nor accessible to them. There are lots of things people buy for their children. It doesn't mean they can access and use them without supervision or permission. Trust funds in childrens names come to mind......

 

[crimzy]

Because issues like Columbine and Newtown allegedly involve the victims of bullying...

 

[flower]

Hi Crimsy,
There is the NORMAL teasing kids do...then there is bullying. I for one grew up in Chicago, I was literally beat up almost every single day that I went to school from 1st, through the 7th grade...then we moved.
Every time I lifted my head some kid was looking at me and pounding their fist into their other hand with an evil smile (girls mind you)...thus telling me they were the one that would be beating me up that day. They pulled my hair leaving bald spots as I tried to walk through the hall to class, and they pushed me down the stairs. Many times a pack of girls would follow me home from school pushing, shoving me and taunting me all the way, it was the longest three blocks home you can imagine. I was terrified. My crime was that I wasn't Puerto Rican.
I still cry when I even think about those days and I failed every class...straight Fs. Now, what do you think would have happened if I could have gotten my hands on a gun back then? I for one am very happy with zero tolerance for bullies. My son Nick in 8th grade got picked on...I told him to ignore the idiots and walk away. 7 months...7 MONTHS, he did just that, and then one day he snapped and punched the head bully so hard three times in the same spot on his mouth...and sent the little $#!% to the hospital. The kid needed plastic surgery to fix his upper pallet and later fit him with an entire row of upper teeth. Nick was found not guilty in court because of the harassment he endured from the kid...we had to pay 0 restitution. I tell you, I would have gone to jail before I would have paid that creep a cent anyway.
When there was FINALLY a school inquiry about the incident... It came out that the Coach and School principle was on my sons side to get him reinstated back in school. They told the board that they had seen Nick walk away from a fight from these bullies many times over the 7 months they harassed him. I held my tongue because they were after all trying to help...but in my heart I couldn't help but ask why, if they had seen the little devils for 7 months bullying my child, that they stood there and did absolutely nothing...until somebody landed in the hospital.
Did the little monster learn anything? NO, he never bothered Nick again, but being leader of the pack, they found another kid to harass and torture...even with his face all wired up and slurping his food through a straw, he still was a bully to other kids. His father was a police officer...what was dear old dad teaching his idiot son at home for crying out loud??????

 

[darthtang aw]

Because issues like Columbine and Newtown allegedly involve the victims of bullying...
Columbine, yes, Newtown...no......so you have one incident in how many instances of bullying in this country? Guns aren't the issue with bullying. The issue is lack parenting, be it time not spent with their kids due to work, or an apathetic attitude. All of us were bullied when younger at one point or another in our lives. why didn't we fly off the handle? I owned a gun as a child (bought and secured by my parents). There were guns in my home growing up. In sixth grade there was a two week period where everyday I got jumped and beat up by 3 guys. I didnt take a gun to school....My dad used to walk home from school. a kid 4 years older than him would put pins in his shoe and kick my dad in his rear the whole walk home...my dad didnt go shoot up anyone. He eventually stood up to the bully and it stopped. Why did he stand up to him...why did I stand up to three kids beating on me? We were taught to. Bullies want easy targets....that is why they are bullies. if a bully is stood up to...they 90% of the time back down.

 

[meowzer]

I really don't remember kids being mean when I was young....NOT like today......I do think there is a BIG change in parenting...AND look at the violence on T.V......I DO NOT blames guns, knives, bats....etc......the world is very different today......people are just meaner IMO
AND YES.....I do see a problem in schools....BECAUSE....where will they draw the line......

 

[reefraff]

You've always had and always will have bullies. People need to make their kids stand up for themselves. I was a big kid who didn't like to fight. Because of that I got pushed around in school. The first real fight I ever got in at school was started by a kid in middle school that was literally about half my size. After knocking him about 10 feet into the lunch benches I walked away. The kid came back for more about 15 minutes later and I popped him in the mouth. He had braces and it left a bloody mess. I tried to pick him up to go to the nurses office and the lil turd was still swinging at me. I felt so bad it really left me in a bad place once I got to high school. Walking away from a fight is well and fine but at some point you gotta stand up for yourself and fight back. I got through high school without fighting but got picked on a bit because of it. Looking back on it now I should have thumped a couple people, it would have saved me a lot of misery. One of the guys later asked me why I didn't hit him back. He knew he obviously wasn't hurting me because I never even took my hands out of my pockets. He said "You could have killed me" and I said that was why I didn't hit him back. Ended up being friends.

 

[darthtang aw]

Thecreation of the internet allows for the mean spiteful side of people to come out more. people feel secure in the "anonomy" and therefore are able to say things far meaner than they would in public. Kids arejust as mean as they were then. the difference is there are far more outlets for bullying to occur now days. Before, kids could go home and get away from the bullying and hang with their group of friends and family. but since they now have to deal with it at home via internet or text from their phone, it is harder to escape and the mind dwells on it.

 

[crimzy]

So the question remains... with the internet and change in parenting... is there a solution? What would you do about this?
Maybe it's for attorneys to take on more of these claims and sue under the anti-bullying statutes for the teachers and school officials to get off their butts. In my client's situation, he wasn't physically assaulted, but was tormented continuously and had his property damaged. If the schools aren't taking action, and the police are hesitant to charge these crimes, then maybe I just need to hit the schools and parents up for as much money as I can. Maybe then a couple people will get fired and the parents may get their kids under control...

 

[reefraff]

I Dunno. It's a slippery slope I guess we have to go down as far as using lawsuits to solve all our problems. If this has gone so far that the kid's property is being vandalized at school and they aren't doing anything about it I'd sue too. Better parenting isn't going to solve all problems but it will solve a lot of them
But we have a case here in Colorado right now where a 6 year old boy's parents are suing the school district because they wont let him use the girls bathroom. You see when this boy was 4 years old his parents decided he was transgendered and are raising him as a girl.... I have some opinions on that but it isn't the point. All these parents care about is their kid who was offered the use of the nurses or staff bathrooms but nooooooooo, he has to use the girls bathroom despite what 5 and 6 year olds might think about a boy being in the bathroom with them. You have some parents who don't care but you have others who are blind to anything but their little darling and don't think the bullying or other issues are a serious thing.

 

[darthtang aw]

So the question remains... with the internet and change in parenting... is there a solution?  What would you do about this?
Maybe it's for attorneys to take on more of these claims and sue under the anti-bullying statutes for the teachers and school officials to get off their butts.  In my client's situation, he wasn't physically assaulted, but was tormented  continuously and had his property damaged.  If the schools aren't taking action, and the police are hesitant to charge these crimes, then maybe I just need to hit the schools and parents up for as much money as I can.  Maybe then a couple people will get fired and the parents may get their kids under control...
You want teachers and administrators to step in during these situations? There is an easy solution. The same argument for allowing kids to go to any school they wish or their parents wish based off educational merit can apply to this case as well. You see far more "violent" bullying in inner city schools than rural/suburb schools. I have lived and gone to both. You want schools to be more responsible for the actions going on in their schools, then let the parents decide if their sion or daughter will attend district 369 school....or 213 instead. But nooooooooo....this would possibly cost horrible schools those teachers jobs.....or the administration's funding due to lack of attending pupils.
My kids go to a charter for this very reason.
Bullying was growing into a huge problem in my middle school aged daughters school. A little directed towards her, but mainly to other kids. Couple that with a poor standing in the school rating system and last years administrator was let go. This year we got a new one. She has expelled more students for repeated behavior problems than I saw in the four years previous combined, to the point that state and fed funding for the charter has decreased significantly....the school has rallied and done fund raisers to compensate till new enrollment happens and the student numbers get back up. But you knopw what...bullying is barely an issue and the testing scores are significantly higher..............Make the bad eggs change schools and get expelled a few times and the parents will eventually get tired of it, or go up on charges for their children not attending school.....or just home school them....either way, the bullying in the school is handled. This administrator isn't by any means perfect. I have butted heads with her on a few occasions...but over all, her approach has improved things significantly....

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/394767/bullying#post_3513740
You've always had and always will have bullies. People need to make their kids stand up for themselves. I was a big kid who didn't like to fight. Because of that I got pushed around in school. The first real fight I ever got in at school was started by a kid in middle school that was literally about half my size. After knocking him about 10 feet into the lunch benches I walked away. The kid came back for more about 15 minutes later and I popped him in the mouth. He had braces and it left a bloody mess. I tried to pick him up to go to the nurses office and the lil turd was still swinging at me. I felt so bad it really left me in a bad place once I got to high school. Walking away from a fight is well and fine but at some point you gotta stand up for yourself and fight back. I got through high school without fighting but got picked on a bit because of it. Looking back on it now I should have thumped a couple people, it would have saved me a lot of misery. One of the guys later asked me why I didn't hit him back. He knew he obviously wasn't hurting me because I never even took my hands out of my pockets. He said "You could have killed me" and I said that was why I didn't hit him back. Ended up being friends.
Standing up to a bully does not always stop the bullying.
After reaching adulthood and had kids of my own ....I was sitting on my aunts front porch back in my old neighborhood...A woman who was a friend of my aunts and around my age, was telling the story of her youth. She said back when she went to school (H. B. Stowe), my school.... so then I was all ears. She said she belonged to the Latin queens (a gang) She said they had an initiation to get in...there was this little skinny girl they had to beat up to be able to join. She continued on and said it would take weeks to even catch up to this girl and she was all arms and legs in a fight and bites like a dog. Did I forget to mention I bit one girls finger off? I do believe I left that part out of the story of the many fights I had back then...anyway, she was the girl. 25 years later I finally knew why I was beat up all the time. I wish I had a camera phone to take a picture of her when I informed her I was that kid.
I did get an apology...some how it just wasn't enough to help me forget. I still don't like a crowd of people and avoid congested things like "Taste of chicago"...and even a crowded party, I just don't attend. I'm not afraid someone will hurt me... I just don't like being surrounded by people.
We do not need to have to teach our kids to stand up to the bullies. Folks need to teach the kids to not be a bully in the first place. I agree with Meowzer...the violence is much worse now, and kids are meaner and are bringing guns to school. 0 tolerance is the answer, if a bully picks on another kid...kick them out of school. No child should have to be afraid to go to school, and they 100% shouldn't have to learn to fight to be allowed to go there unmolested by bullies. Kids go to school to learn... and I don't think survival by fighting is one of those lessons.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/394767/bullying#post_3513785
Standing up to a bully does not always stop the bullying.
After reaching adulthood and had kids of my own ....I was sitting on my aunts front porch back in my old neighborhood...A woman who was a friend of my aunts and around my age, was telling the story of her youth. She said back when she went to school (H. B. Stowe), my school.... so then I was all ears. She said she belonged to the Latin queens (a gang) She said they had an initiation to get in...there was this little skinny girl they had to beat up to be able to join. She continued on and said it would take weeks to even catch up to this girl and she was all arms and legs in a fight and bites like a dog. Did I forget to mention I bit one girls finger off? I do believe I left that part out of the story of the many fights I had back then...anyway, she was the girl. 25 years later I finally knew why I was beat up all the time. I wish I had a camera phone to take a picture of her when I informed her I was that kid.
I did get an apology...some how it just wasn't enough to help me forget. I still don't like a crowd of people and avoid congested things like "Taste of chicago"...and even a crowded party, I just don't attend. I'm not afraid someone will hurt me... I just don't like being surrounded by people.
We do not need to have to teach our kids to stand up to the bullies. Folks need to teach the kids to not be a bully in the first place. I agree with Meowzer...the violence is much worse now, and kids are meaner and are bringing guns to school. 0 tolerance is the answer, if a bully picks on another kid...kick them out of school. No child should have to be afraid to go to school, and they 100% shouldn't have to learn to fight to be allowed to go there unmolested by bullies. Kids go to school to learn... and I don't think survival by fighting is one of those lessons.
Pie in the sky rose colored glasses nonsense! Kids absolutely need to be taught to stand up to bullies because there are always going to be people like that. Standing up to them doesn't always mean you fight but if that is what it takes do it. In most cases those doing the bullying will find a new target even if they win the fight. I agree with kicking the bullies out but that isn't going to happen either.
I had a friend who's dad came up with an interesting solution to his older brother getting jumped by a gang. He beat the hell out of 3 of the kids dads before the cops caught up with him. Actually 2 dads and a older brother now that I think of it. It worked. First year I was in High School one of the gangs made the mistake of jumping a football player. The TEAM caught up with them one by one and returned the favor. The so-called leader of the gang tried to call a truce and got his but kicked too.

 

[meowzer]

I have never taught my kids to "turn the other cheek" Don't get me wrong.......I have taught them (or tried to) to NOT be mean.....to not START things.....and HOPEFULLY to know when to walk away
NO...Bullies do not beat bullies.....BUT teaching our kids HOW to act in situations is a start......and teaching them morals.....My son is disabled....walked "different" HE NEVER got made fun of in 22 years.....and I attribute that to the personality he has....and (hopefully) some things that I taught him.......he NEVER acted like he was different....and was never treated that way

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/394767/bullying#post_3513791
Pie in the sky rose colored glasses nonsense! Kids absolutely need to be taught to stand up to bullies because there are always going to be people like that. Standing up to them doesn't always mean you fight but if that is what it takes do it. In most cases those doing the bullying will find a new target even if they win the fight. I agree with kicking the bullies out but that isn't going to happen either.
I had a friend who's dad came up with an interesting solution to his older brother getting jumped by a gang. He beat the hell out of 3 of the kids dads before the cops caught up with him. Actually 2 dads and a older brother now that I think of it. It worked. First year I was in High School one of the gangs made the mistake of jumping a football player. The TEAM caught up with them one by one and returned the favor. The so-called leader of the gang tried to call a truce and got his but kicked too.
My Dear...from where I come from, that's called gang warfare...Your "solution" is to get a bigger gang. Just because the other gang is dumb enough to call themselves the "dumb tacos" does not mean that a gang of family or friends going after them to retaliate is not just another gang of thugs.
0 tolerance works...yes they most certainly do kick the little buggers out of school now. I don't have an iota of a problem standing up for myself in this world, I know what small claims court is for, I know how to call the police, and I also know not to try and "settle" things the street way, because I am an adult with working brain cells and my children know how to handle things as well. Both of my boys are capable of defending themselves if a bad guy breaks into the home...but they don't handle idiots by becoming a fellow idiot.
I had an interesting solution as well...my son when things got too bad did indeed protect himself, and he was not in trouble for doing so. It was called self defense. My husband taught them how to box, my brother had his kids in Karate class, they are now black belts and have never been in any fights at school. Nonetheless, it is ridiculous to actually expect a kid to have to defend themselves in school, and they should not have to. Nor does a kid have to snitch...the adults around the school should take note and report it, and then when little bully Jr is kicked out enough, the parents will either do something to teach their little bully at home, or because of constant problems at school....put by court order the little monster in anger management therapy at the parents cost, they are dangerous to everyone else in the school, and nobody should have to put up with them.

 

[crimzy]

I teach my kids to stand up for themselves if they were to get picked on. I think that facing or confronting those fears will actually build character and self esteem. I think it's the kid who gets tormented regularly and doesn't have the courage to stand up for himself that ends up with anti-social disorders or snaps some day and finds courage in the barrel of a gun.
JMO but this is how I (and my ex too) raise our kids.
And Darth, to respond to your question, yes I think it is the duty of the school to stop bullying. If they knowingly allow it to happen their a$$es should be fired. They are the ones responsible to protect our children when we entrust their safety to a school.

 

[crimzy]

No child should have to be afraid to go to school, and they 100% shouldn't have to learn to fight to be allowed to go there unmolested by bullies.
This is a great line.

 

[dragonzim]

Wait, can we just go back a second and reflect on the fact that Flower said she bit someone's finger off in a fight?
Ok, we now return to your regular programming....

 

[meowzer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/394767/bullying#post_3513812
Wait, can we just go back a second and reflect on the fact that Flower said she bit someone's finger off in a fight?
Ok, we now return to your regular programming....
EEK......I missed that

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/394767/bullying#post_3513794
My Dear...from where I come from, that's called gang warfare...Your "solution" is to get a bigger gang. Just because the other gang is dumb enough to call themselves the "dumb tacos" does not mean that a gang of family or friends going after them to retaliate is not just another gang of thugs.
0 tolerance works...yes they most certainly do kick the little buggers out of school now. I don't have an iota of a problem standing up for myself in this world, I know what small claims court is for, I know how to call the police, and I also know not to try and "settle" things the street way, because I am an adult with working brain cells and my children know how to handle things as well. Both of my boys are capable of defending themselves if a bad guy breaks into the home...but they don't handle idiots by becoming a fellow idiot.
I had an interesting solution as well...my son when things got too bad did indeed protect himself, and he was not in trouble for doing so. It was called self defense. My husband taught them how to box, my brother had his kids in Karate class, they are now black belts and have never been in any fights at school. Nonetheless, it is ridiculous to actually expect a kid to have to defend themselves in school, and they should not have to. Nor does a kid have to snitch...the adults around the school should take note and report it, and then when little bully Jr is kicked out enough, the parents will either do something to teach their little bully at home, or because of constant problems at school....put by court order the little monster in anger management therapy at the parents cost, they are dangerous to everyone else in the school, and nobody should have to put up with them.
The first line of defense against bullying is teaching kids to stand up for themselves. As I pointed out that doesn't mean you fight but you have to be prepared to if it comes to that. In a perfect world nobody would have to defend themselves in school, or deal with drugs or other crime there. But that isn't the world we live in and until the politicians decide it's OK to crack down on gangs. Unfortunately they wont because it will be labeled racist because of the high number of minorities in gangs
My solution for the gang issue was to make friends with one of the 3 "leaders" of the local gang first year of school. Fight smart, not hard LOL! I never had an issue with the gang punks.