Bush's War

reefraff

Active Member
Saw the Iran story earlier. Not sure what to think of that. Iran has the potential to be the kind of country we would consider good in the region once the younger generation takes political control. Problem is that guy in charge now. If he really believes half the crap he says he is a huge threat. Maybe he is just a shrewd politician that is playing to his base. Hard to say. If there is anyway we can avoid an armed conflict with them we should do it. That country can be turned without firing a shot.
 

zman1

Active Member
It's an attempt to embarrass GWBush in the region, again. Also, they are having another election in April this year for their legislative branch. They actually have elections, so does Lebanon. However, they don't always elect who we want though.
Not that Wikipedia is always accurate , but they do list this for 2004
20 February and 7 May 2004 Majlis of Iran election results Orientiation of candidates Votes % Seats % of Seats
Conservatives 156 54%

Reformists 39 13%
Independents 31 11%
Elected in second round 59 20%
 

stdreb27

Active Member

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2543697
It's an attempt to embarrass GWBush in the region, again. Also, they are having another election in April this year for their legislative branch. They actually have elections, so does Lebanon. However, they don't always elect who we want though.
Not that Wikipedia is always accurate , but they do list this for 2004
20 February and 7 May 2004 Majlis of Iran election results Orientiation of candidates Votes % Seats % of Seats
Conservatives 156 54%

Reformists 39 13%
Independents 31 11%
Elected in second round 59 20%
As if it carries the same meaning.
This is just like a liberal, Insinuating that the radical leader of Iran is a republican. Who is attempting to mis-inform people in an effort to promote their own agenda. Just like the misnomer "McCainBush."
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2543634
You guys are worried about Iran, but it appears they helped with the cease fire:...
Yes and no:
"Al-Sadr's order was announced Sunday after lawmakers Hadi al-Amri and Ali al-Adeeb reportedly asked Iranian authorities to stop the flow of weapons to al-Sadr's Mahdi Army as well as groups closely allied with the Americans. Tehran denies that it backs Iraqi militias.
The lawmakers _ both of whom have close ties to Iran _ also asked the Iranians to pressure al-Sadr to come up with a face-saving initiative, according to Iraqi officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject." http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Mar...0,Iraq,00.html
Iran is harboring Al-Sadr and suppying his army with weapons... So their involvement in asking for a cease fire is suspect unless they are beginning to hear the droning of American warplanes overhead.
 

zman1

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2543703
As if it carries the same meaning.
This is just like a liberal, Insinuating that the radical leader of Iran is a republican. Who is attempting to mis-inform people in an effort to promote their own agenda. Just like the misnomer "McCainBush."
That would be the religious right of the parties.. Some what of a connection
...
Democracy is a funny thing... We prefer it when a dictator isn't aligned with us. Otherwise, we don't have a major issue with it, so long as they (the dictator) don't turn on us. I am not saying anything bad about it, it's just the truth. They may elect people to the government that are totay against us. This is the real issue of democracy that we could have in the region.
Hezbollah - now holds seats in Lebanon's government.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2543724
That would be the religious right of the parties.. Some what of a connection
...
Democracy is a funny thing... We prefer it when a dictator isn't aligned with us. Otherwise, we don't have a major issue with it, so long as they don't turn on us. I am not saying anything bad about it, it's just the truth. They may elect people to the government that are totay against us. This is the real issue of democracy that we could have in the region.
Hezbollah - now holds seats in Lebanon's government.
Agreed. Also the danger of a Democracy in Pakistan.
At least, with a Democracy, the people share the blame when their Government does something really stupid. Lebanon is a great example of this.
 

zman1

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2543718
... Iran is harboring Al-Sadr and suppying his army with weapons... So their involvement in asking for a cease fire is suspect unless they are beginning to hear the droning of American warplanes overhead.
They will come around sooner or later and realize they can have greater control by embracing democracy. Getting their people elected and fight that way. We will lose our puppets then, they are becoming more self animated now... Ahmadinejad was just visiting last month or was it the month before. This was another attempt to embarrass GWBush in the region - The second component of the trifecta "axis of evil". Just two left, Iran and North Korea
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2543724
That would be the religious right of the parties.. Some what of a connection
...
Democracy is a funny thing... We prefer it when a dictator isn't aligned with us. Otherwise, we don't have a major issue with it, so long as they (the dictator) don't turn on us. I am not saying anything bad about it, it's just the truth. They may elect people to the government that are totay against us. This is the real issue of democracy that we could have in the region.
Hezbollah - now holds seats in Lebanon's government.
I'm not sure I follow you, would you care to throw out a dictator who is aligned with up. Maybe the dude from Pakistan, but he was elected someone freely I believe.
As your fear that they elect a nutcase. I would take that risk. Considering the countries that we have "rebuild" germany, Japan, South Korea, as well as countries who has "freely" elected leaders most of them are pretty friendly to our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness idealogy (though they don't all agree on the right way of doing things) Minus a few nutcases, hilter, Chavez, Putin (maybe). there hasn't been a whole lot of non-rule of law governments emerging from countries who do hold free elections. So although not perfect democracy has a pretty decent track record when it comes to stability. I mean the possibility does exist, but we have a good track record of doing a good job setting up countries.
Originally Posted by zman1

http:///forum/post/2543763
They will come around sooner or later and realize they can have greater control by embracing democracy. Getting their people elected and fight that way. We will lose our puppets then, they are becoming more self animated now... Ahmadinejad was just visiting last month or was it the month before. This was another attempt to embarrass GWBush in the region - The second component of the trifecta "axis of evil". Just two left, Iran and North Korea

The idea is to take off the strings. Oh a side note, if it is ok for the UN to have Ahmadinejad here, why not in iraq?
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2543634
You guys are worried about Iran, but it appears they helped with the cease fire:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Iran was integral in persuading Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr to halt attacks by his militia on Iraqi security forces, an Iraqi lawmaker said Monday.
1 of 3 Haidar al-Abadi, who is with Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's Dawa Party, said Iraqi Shiite lawmakers traveled Friday to Iran to meet with al-Sadr. They returned Sunday, the day al-Sadr told his Mehdi Army fighters to stand down.
News of Iran's involvement in the cease-fire talks came as an al-Maliki spokesman said operations targeting "outlaws" in the Shiite stronghold of Basra would end when the mission's goals were achieved. Earlier, al-Maliki spokesman Sami al-Askari said the operation would be over by week's end, but he later recanted on the timetable.
The lawmakers who traveled to Iran to broker the cease-fire were from five Shiite parties, including the Sadrist movement. Al-Abadi would not say where in Iran the meeting was held.
The lawmakers hoped to convince Iran to cut off aid to Shiite militias and to persuade al-Sadr to end the fighting. Negotiations were difficult, but the delegation achieved its aims, al-Abadi said. Watch how the cease-fire affects Shiite vs. Shiite fights »
News of the delegation's role comes a day after Iraqi government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh firmly denied there had been any direct or indirect talks between the government and al-Sadr's representatives in Najaf, where al-Sadr's headquarters is located.
Al-Dabbagh made no mention of the Iran meeting but said the government welcomes efforts by politicians to end the bloodshed in Iraq.
Iran's exact involvement in the negotiations is unclear, but two sources concur that the Islamic republic played a key role.
While al-Abadi said Iranian officials participated in the discussions, another source close to the talks said the Iranians pressured al-Sadr to craft an agreement.
Al-Sadr and some Shiite parties have close ties to Iran, a Shiite-dominated country. The talks were the latest reflection of the influence Iran wields in Iraq, where about 60 percent of the population is Shiite.
As for the operations targeting outlaws in Basra, Maj. Gen. Abdul Aziz Mohammed, commander of operations for Iraq's Ministry of Defense, told reporters at a news conference that he hoped the mission would be brief and limited. He provided no timetable.
The mood Monday on the streets in Basra was quiet, said al-Askari, the prime minister's spokesman. Shops opened in the morning, and the movement of people was almost back to normal in the center of town.
Troops and police, whom the U.S. and Britain have backed, are in control of much of Basra, and local security forces are going house-to-house in some districts to confiscate weapons and chase "the outlaws and the criminal and smuggling gangs," the spokesman said.
The Shiite militia members that were in the streets have withdrawn, al-Askari said.
There had been an all-day curfew in Basra during the operation. It was lifted Saturday, and the normal curfew of 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. is in place.
The fighting in Basra spread to other southern cities, such as Kut, Karbala and Diwaniya, and it raged in Shiite regions of Baghdad.
Authorities in Baghdad also reported a quieter situation in the capital, where there have been no reports of clashes, an Iraqi ******** Ministry official said.
Authorities in Baghdad eased a stiff, citywide curfew on Monday, but a vehicle ban remained in place in Sadr City, Shula and Kadhimiya -- three neighborhoods seen as al-Sadr strongholds. The usual 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. curfew is in place citywide.
Mohammed, the Iraqi commander, also said the situation was quiet in other southern cities where fighting had been reported.
In issuing his call to end fighting, al-Sadr demanded that the Iraqi government provide amnesty to his followers and release any supporters who were being held.
Al-Sadr suspended the operations of the Mehdi Army in August, and the cease-fire is credited with helping decrease the violence in Iraq over the last few months.
U.S. and Iraqi troops have continued to target Shiite militants who ignored the cease-fire, and the al-Sadr movement had complained before this upsurge in fighting that it was being unfairly targeted.
U.S. and British forces have supported Iraqi troops with airstrikes and shelling in Basra as well as reconnaissance and intelligence, military officials with the U.S.-led coalition have said. U.S. troops also have conducted raids and engaged in gunbattles with militia fighters alongside Iraqi troops. E-mail to a friend

Anything to make the US look bad.
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2545586
Yea, and it's appears our "enemies" in the Middle East will never end. They even have children's shows on their TV depicting a puppet of Bush getting stabbed by a child puppet...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23903128/from/ET/?GT1=43001
And you think the hated towards the US will stop simply because of a democracy or our presence over there?
Hamas has been doing children shows against the "Great Satan" for years.
The hatred won't stop but it will take some of them out of the equation... I've talked with guys over there. Not all of the Iraqi's hate us. Many are glad we are there; So it's definitely a start.
 

crashbandicoot

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2545586
Yea, and it's appears our "enemies" in the Middle East will never end. They even have children's shows on their TV depicting a puppet of Bush getting stabbed by a child puppet...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23903128/from/ET/?GT1=43001
And you think the hated towards the US will stop simply because of a democracy or our presence over there?

So because they are teaching their children to hate is a reason for us to give up on them . It only takes a few idiots to ruin it for the whole place ? How much hate do we pump in to our kids . Calling the muslims and middle eastern people racist names ? I personally have no tolerance for the degrading of other peoples cultures .
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot
http:///forum/post/2545652
So because they are teaching their children to hate is a reason for us to give up on them . It only takes a few idiots to ruin it for the whole place ? How much hate do we pump in to our kids . Calling the muslims and middle eastern people racist names ? I personally have no tolerance for the degrading of other peoples cultures .
Wow... good point. To take it a point further, all of those kids in Obama's church have heard our Government are terrorists and have introduced drugs and AIDS into their community to kill them...
so yes.. Hate is preached worldwide.
 

crashbandicoot

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2546127
Wow... good point. To take it a point further, all of those kids in Obama's church have heard our Government are terrorists and have introduced drugs and AIDS into their community to kill them...
so yes.. Hate is preached worldwide.

Its sad journey . I really do pray(and no not to aliens or cats but to GOD) that some day we will see less hatered in the world . We all have the ability to stop just a little hate in the world . If we all spent more time focused on the posative points rather than the negative . Sure we can call each other names we can preach hate .
 

suzy

Member
Of course. Profiting from this war and then coming here to romanticize about how great it is seems like a conflict of interest.
Average salary for a volunteer soldier is around 30 grand, 18 year olds get around 26 thousand a year. They are required to stay in Iraq for 15 months, newbies only have to stay for a year. You can leave when ever you want? And, our soldiers, making 26,ooo a year will be protecting you.
So, while you are in Iraq, in the air conditioned comfort of your office, and still being able to post on the www, there will be some who read your words and feel they are tainted.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2562172
Of course. Profiting from this war and then coming here to romanticize about how great it is seems like a conflict of interest.
Average salary for a volunteer soldier is around 30 grand, 18 year olds get around 26 thousand a year. They are required to stay in Iraq for 15 months, newbies only have to stay for a year. You can leave when ever you want? And, our soldiers, making 26,ooo a year will be protecting you.
So, while you are in Iraq, in the air conditioned comfort of your office, and still being able to post on the www, there will be some who read your words and feel they are tainted.

Can't speak for JM's situation but when my nephew went over he had to committ to 6 months, had to stay in CHU's and was provided security by Blackwater. My son has www access and a cell phone.
 
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