Bush's War

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2539137
No way! We already have New York locked up! I think he should pick Powell. Who has learned more the last 8 years than him? Plus, think of all the right wing defectors we could get?
Did you see Powells interview on 60 minutes? I forgive him...I think most would.
Powell would be a great choice because Obama has no foriegn policy experience. Fortunatly Powell is a middle of the road kinda of guy who would not serve with someone with Obama's left wing philosophy.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2539232
That means they are mercenaires too? They are not an actual police force..
But you do have to attribute a good % of the Surge's reduction in violence to the cease fire.... It is now over... Look at the news... we are back to square one...
Curfews... shooting..bombs... rockets.. etc
Why do you suppose they called the cease fire? Now we'll see what happens. This is a historic moment in the war. It will turn one way or the other on how the Iraqis handle the militias.
Gotta tell you several of your posts makes it seem like you are rooting against the effort. Take this one for instance. Square one? Read something besides the left wing blogs. A sudden spike in violence is hardly square one.

 

[crashbandicoot]

I found the perfect running mate for either clinton or obama

Hes perfect . He has the high self image of a democrat and the ability to point the finger and go Ha HA even when he doesnt have a clue whats going on .

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot
http:///forum/post/2539230
What is your deal ? Are you so far left that your wishing death on your fellow americans , Your fellow humans ? Are you so blinded by anger and in your attacks of journeyman that you have to attack his religious beliefs too?
Try shutting down the hate and READ his posts . He is going over there to do a job . He has faith in his religion has nothing to do with the job he is going to do . He is only stating that he believes what he is doing is the right thing to do for the people he is going to help . He is also stating that he feels he has led a just christian life and that if he should die (I pray he doesnt) that he will not fear it because he will be on his way to god and will have served his pourpose on earth .

Suzy is right. You do need anger management classes. I hope nothing happens to journey on his life changing quest. If he thinks that's his mission in life, so be it. Not sure exactly what the 'job' is that he's doing over there, but it doesn't sound like he enlisted in the military. Sorry, I never did buy that 'one person can make a difference' line people like to use. Being an atheist, I don't get the religious beliefs and how they factor in the scheme of life. THE CYCLE OF LIFE --- You're born, you get laid, you die, then the worms eat you...

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2539399
Suzy is right. You do need anger management classes. I hope nothing happens to journey on his life changing quest. If he thinks that's his mission in life, so be it. Not sure exactly what the 'job' is that he's doing over there, but it doesn't sound like he enlisted in the military. Sorry, I never did buy that 'one person can make a difference' line people like to use. Being an atheist, I don't get the religious beliefs and how they factor in the scheme of life. THE CYCLE OF LIFE --- You're born, you get laid, you die, then the worms eat you...

Hey I'm not the one thats wishing death on people . So no anger issues here .

But thanks for keeping the idea alive .

We wouldn't want this thread to not have somebody making personal attacks on others would we ?
Just because you don't understand his relious point of veiw is certinaly not a reason to use it as ammo to attack the guy with . Because your scope of reasoning does not incompass religion does not mean he can not feel his life has a larger point then to feed the worms .

 

[suzy]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2539341
Powell would be a great choice because Obama has no foriegn policy experience. Fortunatly Powell is a middle of the road kinda of guy who would not serve with someone with Obama's left wing philosophy.
That's not what he said on Meet the Press a few weeks ago......
Dream ticket: One charasmatic leader who can inspire the country, another with the best foreign policy experience a General can have.....
The swift boaters would be up a shetcreek....

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot
http:///forum/post/2539420
Hey I'm not the one thats wishing death on people . So no anger issues here .

But thanks for keeping the idea alive .

We wouldn't want this thread to not have somebody making personal attacks on others would we ?
Just because you don't understand his relious point of veiw is certinaly not a reason to use it as ammo to attack the guy with . Because your scope of reasoning does not incompass religion does not mean he can not feel his life has a larger point then to feed the worms .
When did I wish a death threat on the guy? Just because I think anyone that goes over there right now is in line to an early grave? I know military personnel that don't want to be over there right now. As far as I can tell, Journey is a civilian volunteer jumping at the chance to go over there to help out. I see it as a potential death mission. Based on journey's faith, views, and personal tenacity, he doesn't. Good luck to him. He's gonna need it. It's definitely no Club Med vacation. Watch out for the Camel Spiders!

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2539460
That's not what he said on Meet the Press a few weeks ago......
Dream ticket: One charasmatic leader who can inspire the country, another with the best foreign policy experience a General can have.....
The swift boaters would be up a shetcreek....

you got a link to go along with this interview or story?

 

[suzy]

Nope. I watch the Sunday morning talk shows pretty religiously, TIVO them if one is on at the same time as another or if I have to work. My favorite soap operas! You can take my word for it, or not. No big either way.
I really liked his interview on 60 Minutes a while back. He teared up, I almost cried. I have never voted for a Republican in my life, but I would consider voting for him. Of course, if he ran with Obama, he would be running as a Democrat.
It's all sixes to me. Neither party actually lives up to their party platform after the election.....

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2539460
That's not what he said on Meet the Press a few weeks ago......
Dream ticket: One charasmatic leader who can inspire the country, another with the best foreign policy experience a General can have.....
The swift boaters would be up a shetcreek....
Obama as far as I know has never been in the military and would have been too young to have served in Nam so the swiftboat veterans for truth would have no reason to get involved. They were all about exposing Kerry for the lies he told in the early 70's about them and everyone else who served.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2539520
you got a link to go along with this interview or story?
If you do a search for Colin Powell on meet the press his last appearance was in june last year. Is that you Hillary

 

[crashbandicoot]

Just an iteresting note . I was just reading in the paper and it said that the bonuses the army reserve paid out in 2007 came out to 314.7 million dollars . 2006 recrute and reenlistment bonuses were only 216 million dollars . The army meet its goal of enlistments in the 2007 year but missed by 5% the year before . The army reserves recruited 229 more soliders than its goal of 35,505. The navy air force and maines had goals ranging from 6,800 to 10,600.For the soliders wanting out so bad and the war being frowned upon it seams as though they are signing up in numbers to stay and to go in .

 

[hydrodamoper]

Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot
http:///forum/post/2540092
Just an iteresting note . I was just reading in the paper and it said that the bonuses the army reserve paid out in 2007 came out to 314.7 million dollars . 2006 recrute and reenlistment bonuses were only 216 million dollars . The army meet its goal of enlistments in the 2007 year but missed by 5% the year before . The army reserves recruited 229 more soliders than its goal of 35,505. The navy air force and maines had goals ranging from 6,800 to 10,600.For the soliders wanting out so bad and the war being frowned upon it seams as though they are signing up in numbers to stay and to go in .
Enlistment/Re-Enlistment numbers can be (and are) manipulated VERY easily. At least in the Army. Enlistment requirements and standards have dropped to such a level that it is easy to meet the monthly/quarterly goals set by DOD. Re-enlistment numbers and goals are even easier to manipulate based on quarterly goal adjustment. Enlistment/Re-Enlistment bonuses are nice, but unless you are in a specific MOS (job), deployed to a combat zone or 1st term soldier, you will not see a bonus.

 

[stdreb27]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080325...e_080325170637
yeah we should have let sadaam continue torturing his own people. The Iraq war was unjust. And water boarding is cruel. and Iraq was a better place under Sadaam.
If only you libs would get this worked up about real torture.
Among the most horrific objects retrieved by Badawi and his team from the notorious torture rooms of the mukhabarat, and now included in the museum, is a wooden table covered in a worn strip of leather and with a domestic iron placed at one end.
"This is an electrocution table," Badawi said.
"The

[hr]
prisoner was bound to the table with a steel bar strapped to his shoulder" to ensure maximum immobility as his torturers electrocuted him or used the iron to inflict burns, Badawi said.
Electric shocks were delivered via electrodes attached to a plastic syringe, the needle of which "was inserted into the urethra of the victim's sexual organ," Badawi added. "The pain was atrocious."

 

[suzy]

Std, no one is saying Saddam was not evil. Living under his dictatorship was hell on earth, I am sure. But, we must consider their lives to discuss this. We, growing up living in America, know no other way. But, we are talking about a part of the world that has never had that. This part of the world has been ruled by tribal leaders, religious fanatics and dictators since it's conception. They have been killing each other for being in the wrong tribe or worshiping Mohammad the wrong way or just because the wanted each others land forever. The "leaders" had to be brutal to keep them from killing each other. By removing Saddam without a plan for peace, we have unleashed a few decades of scores that need to be settled, and now a struggle for who will be the next religious fanatic dictator.
The people do not trust us. We put in the Shah in one country, who brutalized his people. We encouraged the Kurds to rise up and overthrown Saddam, then we left them to their own defenses. In their eyes, we give billions to a country that bulldozes their homes. Now, they view us as occupiers of the their country, while millions of refugees have fled to Syria and neighboring countries. They cannot return to their homes because an opposing tribe has now overtaken their neighborhoods.
Is it really so much better for them?
Right now, on The Today Show, they are showing the Tibetian uprising. The police are clubbing them with baseball bats and dragging them off to jail. The estimates are that 3000 monks were killed a few weeks ago, because they staged a peaceful protest. Here is a country begging the world for help, because they want to be a democracy like us. But, our resources are so stretched and our economy is in turmoil that we cannot even threaten a boycott of the opening ceremonies of the Olympics.
How can we continue to say we invaded Iraq to help them form a democracy? We wanted to help the people who really didn't want our help?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2541576
Std, no one is saying Saddam was not evil. Living under his dictatorship was hell on earth, I am sure. But, we must consider their lives to discuss this. We, growing up living in America, know no other way. But, we are talking about a part of the world that has never had that. This part of the world has been ruled by tribal leaders, religious fanatics and dictators since it's conception. They have been killing each other for being in the wrong tribe or worshiping Mohammad the wrong way or just because the wanted each others land forever. The "leaders" had to be brutal to keep them from killing each other. By removing Saddam without a plan for peace, we have unleashed a few decades of scores that need to be settled, and now a struggle for who will be the next religious fanatic dictator.
The people do not trust us. We put in the Shah in one country, who brutalized his people. We encouraged the Kurds to rise up and overthrown Saddam, then we left them to their own defenses. In their eyes, we give billions to a country that bulldozes their homes. Now, they view us as occupiers of the their country, while millions of refugees have fled to Syria and neighboring countries. They cannot return to their homes because an opposing tribe has now overtaken their neighborhoods.
Is it really so much better for them?
Right now, on The Today Show, they are showing the Tibetian uprising. The police are clubbing them with baseball bats and dragging them off to jail. The estimates are that 3000 monks were killed a few weeks ago, because they staged a peaceful protest. Here is a country begging the world for help, because they want to be a democracy like us. But, our resources are so stretched and our economy is in turmoil that we cannot even threaten a boycott of the opening ceremonies of the Olympics.
How can we continue to say we invaded Iraq to help them form a democracy? We wanted to help the people who really didn't want our help?
huh, I'm not how you form your opinions but it simply isn't the case, if they don't trust us, how come you have whole Al Queda cells defecting? My cousins tell stories on how they are invited into nationals homes for dinner, and are thanked by the people.
If you buy the whole "not trust us" then you must ask, do they not trust us because they fear we will leave prematurely, and leave a vaccuum for a future despot to take our place. We have precident for this, look at ww1 germany.

 

[1journeyman]

Democracy in Iraq can and does work. That tired mantra of "they've never had it before and can't succeed" doesn't hold up to what is going on in many of the provinces throughout Iraq.
If the people don't trust us it is because we've sold them out before. That said, many of them do trust us.
Just look at the numbers. In the USA elections of 2000 and 2004 about half of the eligible voters participated. The last major Iraqi vote, even if you take the numbers posted by critics, were equal to or better than that... The Iraqis passed a budget quicker this year than our own Congress.
Tibet has called for autonomy, but I've never heard them call for Democracy. Following an ordained "Dalai Lama" is far from a Democracy as far as I can see. From my limited knowledge of Far East history I don't think Tibet has ever been a Democracy. Feel free to insert the Democratic talking point of "They've never had Democracy in that region before and it would never work" here.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2541576
Right now, on The Today Show, they are showing the Tibetian uprising. The police are clubbing them with baseball bats and dragging them off to jail. The estimates are that 3000 monks were killed a few weeks ago, because they staged a peaceful protest. Here is a country begging the world for help, because they want to be a democracy like us. But, our resources are so stretched and our economy is in turmoil that we cannot even threaten a boycott of the opening ceremonies of the Olympics.
How can we continue to say we invaded Iraq to help them form a democracy? We wanted to help the people who really didn't want our help?
Economic turmoil? now isn't that cute

You learned a new talking point buzz word. There are few countries in the world that wouldn't sell their souls for our economic turmoil

The reason we can't do anything about tibet is a little thing I like to call WW III. Do you honestly think China gives a north bound rat's southern end if we boycott the opening ceremonies? The only thing that is going to drive Chine out of tibet is the Chinese people and they are not there yet. They are moving in that direction but its going to take massive uprsings to sway the government.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2541758
Democracy in Iraq can and does work. That tired mantra of "they've never had it before and can't succeed" doesn't hold up to what is going on in many of the provinces throughout Iraq.
If the people don't trust us it is because we've sold them out before. That said, many of them do trust us.
Just look at the numbers. In the USA elections of 2000 and 2004 about half of the eligible voters participated. The last major Iraqi vote, even if you take the numbers posted by critics, were equal to or better than that... The Iraqis passed a budget quicker this year than our own Congress.
Tibet has called for autonomy, but I've never heard them call for Democracy. Following an ordained "Dalai Lama" is far from a Democracy as far as I can see. From my limited knowledge of Far East history I don't think Tibet has ever been a Democracy. Feel free to insert the Democratic talking point of "They've never had Democracy in that region before and it would never work" here.
You can't possibly compare voting numbers in the US to those in Iraq. We've been a democracy for what, over 200 years? People in the US don't vote because they either don't care about politics, or have seen that for decades the people who are elected are either corrupt or don't live up to their promises. Of course the Iraqis will come out in droves to vote. They've never had the opportunity to become involved with the political decisions of their nation. Unfortunately, their democratic system will become as corrupt, or even more, than ours.
What budget? You mean what to do with the TRILLION or more dollars the US has given them?

Wow, now that's a hard decision. When you've lived in depressed squaller for more than a century, never had a dime you could call your own, then get all the money you could ever spend in a lifetime handed to you, what would be hard about setting up a budget? Spend $2 billion to rebuild that temple. Who cares. We'll just suck more money out of the US when the Shiites, Kurds, Iranians, or whoever else lives in the region blows it up again....

 

[1journeyman]

So we compare their Democratic" failures" to our 200 year old Democracy, but can't compare their successes to our 200 year old Democracy?
Sounds about right...
The Iraqi budget passed was for 48 billion... Mainly oil revenue and how to distribute it. So, not exactly "how to spend a trillion USA dollars" as some have suggested.