Bush's War

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2538412
What is it with the pro war fanatics who think that if we pull out of Iraq, we're going to have some mass invasion of terrorists? You honestly think a Republican president can keep that from happening? You think just because our soldiers are being used as target practice on a daily basis over there, that'll pacify the terrorists enough so they won't attack us again on our own soil? If you think that, you've been hanging around with Tattoo on Fantasy Island for too long. I'll clue you in - TERRORISTS ARE ALREADY HERE. It's not if they'll cause another 9/11, it's only a matter of when it will happen. They just caught three Afghans in Europe with official Mexican Passports and documentation. Not fakes, but actual legal documentation. You don't think they were trying them over there, so they can make sure they pass before coming into the US with them? The only reason they got caught was because the Customs agent realized they couldn't speak Spanish. For the right money, coyotes will bring them across the river in droves. Another attack is inevitable. The Republicans are just hoping Hillary or Obama are in office at the time so they can say "I told you the Democrats can't protect this country".
Rudedog, we've chronicled the multiple attacks Al Qaeda launched against the USA during the 90's. Since we went into Afghanistan and later Iraq, they have not successfully hit us.
What are they waiting for? Do they no longer hate us? Do we no longer offend them? Another attack is inevitable, no question there. I contend, however, the more of them we kill overseas, the more of their resources we burn up over there, the fewer they will have over here.
 

crashbandicoot

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2538614
Rudedog, we've chronicled the multiple attacks Al Qaeda launched against the USA during the 90's. Since we went into Afghanistan and later Iraq, they have not successfully hit us.
What are they waiting for? Do they no longer hate us? Do we no longer offend them? Another attack is inevitable, no question there. I contend, however, the more of them we kill overseas, the more of their resources we burn up over there, the fewer they will have over here.
If I may answer this question .
Its because this administration has been PROACTIVE not reactive to terrorism and hostilities of other nations . We have gone on the offensive and drasticly slowed the radical fundamentalist at their core . Making them fight the war in their own yard so to speek .
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot
http:///forum/post/2538716
If I may answer this question .
Its because this administration has been PROACTIVE not reactive to terrorism and hostilities of other nations . We have gone on the offensive and drasticly slowed the radical fundamentalist at their core . Making them fight the war in their own yard so to speek .

That's my take on it as well.

Al Qaeda has a finite amount of troops, finances and experienced leaders. If they want to go toe to toe with the greatest military in the world I just can't understand why that is a bad thing?
They are going to attack us. I just don't understand the mentality of waiting for them to come over here and do it. We have lost 4,000 brave soldiers in 5 years over there. We lost 3,000 men, women and children in less than 2 hours over here.
 

crashbandicoot

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2538741
That's my take on it as well.

Al Qaeda has a finite amount of troops, finances and experienced leaders. If they want to go toe to toe with the greatest military in the world I just can't understand why that is a bad thing?
They are going to attack us. I just don't understand the mentality of waiting for them to come over here and do it. We have lost 4,000 brave soldiers in 5 years over there. We lost 3,000 men, women and children in less than2 hours over here.
Couldn't agree more .
Didnt exactly trigger the jihad they where hoping for .
If you sit around with your head in the sand long enough some body will come up and kick you in the backside .
 

rudedog40

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2538741
That's my take on it as well.

Al Qaeda has a finite amount of troops, finances and experienced leaders. If they want to go toe to toe with the greatest military in the world I just can't understand why that is a bad thing?
They are going to attack us. I just don't understand the mentality of waiting for them to come over here and do it. We have lost 4,000 brave soldiers in 5 years over there. We lost 3,000 men, women and children in less than 2 hours over here.
I see you're still on the island waiting for the next group of tourists to land. One of Bin Laden's top hinchman just announced the other day another attack is coming. You keep saying the same things -- "I just don't understand the mentality of waiting for them to come over here and do it. ". DUDE! THEY'RE ALREADY HERE. You think they're going to announce their presence? How many years was the 9/11 group living in the US before they hijacked planes? Jesus, we even taught them how to fly the planes. Terrorists are like cockroaches. It's impossible to kill everyone of them. Al Qaeda has a finite amount of troops?
Just last month they showed video of them training 10 year olds how to shoot an AK-47. We may have "the greatest military in the world", but fighting them in Iraq isn't going to stop them from walking across the Mexico and Canadian borders. Get your head out of the sand and face reality.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2537709
That's the point... You say more terrorists are being created, yet Al Qaeda says they are losing members. Got to say, based in an educated guess as to who knows better, them or you, I'm gonna have to suspect they are more accurate.
Never heard this, last I heard a week or two ago, they are as strong now, as they were pre-911
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2538614
Rudedog, we've chronicled the multiple attacks Al Qaeda launched against the USA during the 90's. Since we went into Afghanistan and later Iraq, they have not successfully hit us.
What are they waiting for? Do they no longer hate us? Do we no longer offend them? Another attack is inevitable, no question there. I contend, however, the more of them we kill overseas, the more of their resources we burn up over there, the fewer they will have over here.
Because we are rigth in their backyard... our soilders are being attacked... IMO Americans are probably less safe..
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2538914
I see you're still on the island waiting for the next group of tourists to land. One of Bin Laden's top hinchman just announced the other day another attack is coming. You keep saying the same things -- "I just don't understand the mentality of waiting for them to come over here and do it. ". DUDE! THEY'RE ALREADY HERE. You think they're going to announce their presence? How many years was the 9/11 group living in the US before they hijacked planes? Jesus, we even taught them how to fly the planes. Terrorists are like cockroaches. It's impossible to kill everyone of them. Al Qaeda has a finite amount of troops?
Just last month they showed video of them training 10 year olds how to shoot an AK-47. We may have "the greatest military in the world", but fighting them in Iraq isn't going to stop them from walking across the Mexico and Canadian borders. Get your head out of the sand and face reality.
which is why a fundemental change in Foreign Policy needs to occur... I don't think McCain is the proper one to handle.. and Clinton either... I think Obama is better suited to handle such a situation... I can understand why some Americans don't like him... however, given his background and so called "ties" I feel he could accomplish more... What people don't realize is that these terrorist and foreign govt's are watching the presidential election just as intensely as we are, if not more.
 

rylan1

Active Member
One last point... the "Surge".... is going to proove undoubtibably unsuccessful very soon... I think most GOP'ers don't take into account the cease fire that has been in place, which has stopped much of the violence... There are many militia type groups in Iraq... and the police there are essentially local militias w/ uniforms... Well the cease fire has ended and you will see the violence rise...and most likely will be civil war very soon... This is a messed up situation because there is no military solution... there are terrorists there... yes... but the greatest risk or issue is going to be the fight for power by local Iraq groups... This is going to happen regardless if we stay or not...We made this country and region even more unstable..., and what is troubling is that we didn't have a good enough reason to justify this war.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2538943
... however, given his background and so called "ties" I feel he could accomplish more... .
could you expand on this in detail what exactly you mean? I am serious and curious how his limited experience will be over shadowed by his background and ties.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2539001
could you expand on this in detail what exactly you mean? I am serious and curious how his limited experience will be over shadowed by his background and ties.
I think he would be better suited, better recieved, and more respected by the international community... If a poll was taken to what candidate the world would vote for, I bet it would be Obama... We are living in difficult times, and having a respected "man of the world" would put us in a better situation to solve problems both internationally and abroad... They all have experience, but in terms of presidency... no one has it... We've seen misstatments by McCain... we've seen the lies by Hilary..Experience is terms of time is relative...Its not the best indicator of worthiness..We've seen many bad decisions by men with a tremendous amount of experience
What would you think of a Obama/Bloomberg presidency..
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2538914
I see you're still on the island waiting for the next group of tourists to land. One of Bin Laden's top hinchman just announced the other day another attack is coming. You keep saying the same things -- "I just don't understand the mentality of waiting for them to come over here and do it. ". DUDE! THEY'RE ALREADY HERE. You think they're going to announce their presence? How many years was the 9/11 group living in the US before they hijacked planes? Jesus, we even taught them how to fly the planes. Terrorists are like cockroaches. It's impossible to kill everyone of them. Al Qaeda has a finite amount of troops?
Just last month they showed video of them training 10 year olds how to shoot an AK-47. We may have "the greatest military in the world", but fighting them in Iraq isn't going to stop them from walking across the Mexico and Canadian borders. Get your head out of the sand and face reality.
Then why haven't they attacked? How long did it take for them to prepare for 9-11? A couple of years... USS Cole? Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania? Saudi Arabia? etc.
You can keep saying "they are here". I'm not arguing that. I'm saying, operationally, they don't have the resources to fight on multiple fronts when they are being hammered in Iraq. Intel we are getting from prisoners and captured memos and computers in Iraq is helping prevent attacks here (according to Tenet and other high level DHS officials).
We've killed thousands of Al Qaeda in Iraq. I've posted, on this thread in fact, the captured memo from an Al Qaeda commander in Iraq complaining of manpower shortages. Bin Laden said another attack is coming? Gee, he hasn't been saying that for 8 years...
 

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2538928
Never heard this, last I heard a week or two ago, they are as strong now, as they were pre-911
Not my fault. I've repeatedly used this link when I say that:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3346386.ece
February 11, 2008
Al-Qaeda leaders admit: 'We are in crisis. There is panic and fear'
Al-Qaeda in Iraq faces an “extraordinary crisis”. Last year's mass defection of ordinary Sunnis from al-Qaeda to the US military “created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight”. The terrorist group's security structure suffered “total collapse”.
These are the words not of al-Qaeda's enemies but of one of its own leaders in Anbar province — once the group's stronghold. They were set down last summer in a 39-page letter seized during a US raid on an al-Qaeda base near Samarra in November...."
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2538937
Because we are rigth in their backyard... our soilders are being attacked... IMO Americans are probably less safe..
LOL, that is EXACTLY MY POINT! We are in their backyard. Where would you rather fight them? Their yard or ours?
Less safe? In 5 years they killed 4,000 soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. In less than 2 hours they killed 3,000 men women and children over here. Explain to me how those numbers prove we are less safe?
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2538943
which is why a fundemental change in Foreign Policy needs to occur... I don't think McCain is the proper one to handle.. and Clinton either... I think Obama is better suited to handle such a situation... I can understand why some Americans don't like him... however, given his background and so called "ties" I feel he could accomplish more... What people don't realize is that these terrorist and foreign govt's are watching the presidential election just as intensely as we are, if not more.
And they don't want McCain to win.... what does that tell you?
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2539006
Here ya go journey. You have yourself a real safe trip...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
"To me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain"
I never said or thought it was going to be safe or easy Rudedog. Only that it was going to be a worthy cause.
If I die in the service of my country, great. We're all dying Rudedog. Every day, every minute you march closer to the end of your life here on Earth. If I die doing my part to bring freedom and "hope" to 27 million people so be it.
What purpose will your death serve?
I don't plan on dying, by any means. That said, however, posting a link showing Iranian back renegades from Al-Sadyr's army firing mortars into the Green Zone really isn't news to me.
 
C

clark5

Guest
I think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But what we have to remember that the most important thing is our men and women who are over there in harms way every sec. of every day. I have a brother over there for the second time. I pray for this to end but if you ask our soldiers most of them say we are needed and are making a difference. WMD or not they needed our help. How would we all feel if we were living how they were? He was another Hitler killing mass numbers of people for no good reason. After 9/11 Bush said we were in a war on terror. Well you can't get much worse than the people we are fighting over there. They put guns in the hands of children & strap bombs to their women. ( sounds like Vietnam to me ) Don't you think that the people who want or help deserve it?
 

zman1

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2537772
As I said to Rylan on another thread, that's a mute point. I assume you are going to question my judgment.
Journey, It's not a moot point, I stumbled on it a few weeks ago. I just can't find it right now. There are plenty of House and Senate responses to the Bush long term budget cut plan (shortage) which includes Veterans. However, you may not accept those. So I am still looking for the specific one I saw.
I respect your posts and agree with some, just not all. I have found some other interesting information of times past, I will post those in the other huge thread.... Again, as soon as I find it, I'll post it, Let me know if you want to see the House and Senate responses, I'll post those too.
 
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