Bush's War

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2539057
"To me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain"
I never said or thought it was going to be safe or easy Rudedog. Only that it was going to be a worthy cause.
If I die in the service of my country, great. We're all dying Rudedog. Every day, every minute you march closer to the end of your life here on Earth. If I die doing my part to bring freedom and "hope" to 27 million people so be it.

What purpose will your death serve?
I don't plan on dying, by any means. That said, however, posting a link showing Iranian back renegades from Al-Sadyr's army firing mortars into the Green Zone really isn't news to me.

The martyr has spoken. Worthy cause for who? Is this your 'mission' in life? To try and convince people who believe in a totally different religion that 'Jesus Christ Our Savior' is who they need to follow? What does your personal religious quest have to do with serving your country? You said we were over there to save the US from getting attacked again by the almighty Al Qaeda. Now it's the mission of the military to convert 27 million people over to Christianity? Religious fanatics like yourself lead very sheltered lives. You think your faith will protect you from the evils of the world. You want to go over to Baghdad and walk the streets like Jesus spreading the good word, thinking that will help their suffering. Sorry, it ain't gonna happen. While you're over there, why don't you open up a Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts franchise? "Free AK-47 with the purchase of every Venti-sized Double Chocolate Chip Frappachino. Buy a dozen Dunkin Holes, receive a free pipe bomb!"

You're right. We're all gonna die someday. Some sooner than others. I missed my chance to use my death as a testament of my loyalty to this country when I was over in Nam. But it's sad if you think you need to die while performing some cause for your country for your life to mean anything. That's the same thinking and mentality of these terrorist fanatics who would use their own bodies as walking bombs to prove their faith to Allah and their cause.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2539068
Journey, It's not a moot point, I stumbled on it a few weeks ago. I just can't find it right now. There are plenty of House and Senate responses to the Bush long term budget cut plan (shortage) which includes Veterans. However, you may not accept those. So I am still looking for the specific one I saw.
I respect your posts and agree with some, just not all. I have found some other interesting information of times past, I will post those in the other huge thread.... Again, as soon as I find it, I'll post it, Let me know if you want to see the House and Senate responses, I'll post those too.
No, no. the moot point is whether someone trusts my judgment or not; Not the info you posted.
I'm very interested in the cuts to the Veteran's healthcare. I would suggest compling the info and starting a new thread. I think that is a worthy cause we can discuss much more civally than much of the topics in this thread.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2539084

The martyr has spoken. Worthy cause for who? Is this your 'mission' in life? To try and convince people who believe in a totally different religion that 'Jesus Christ Our Savior' is who they need to follow? What does your personal religious quest have to do with serving your country? You said we were over there to save the US from getting attacked again by the almighty Al Qaeda. Now it's the mission of the military to convert 27 million people over to Christianity? Religious fanatics like yourself lead very sheltered lives. You think your faith will protect you from the evils of the world. You want to go over to Baghdad and walk the streets like Jesus spreading the good word, thinking that will help their suffering. Sorry, it ain't gonna happen. While you're over there, why don't you open up a Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts franchise? "Free AK-47 with the purchase of every Venti-sized Double Chocolate Chip Frappachino. Buy a dozen Dunkin Holes, receive a free pipe bomb!"

You're right. We're all gonna die someday. Some sooner than others. I missed my chance to use my death as a testament of my loyalty to this country when I was over in Nam. But it's sad if you think you need to die while performing some cause for your country for your life to mean anything. That's the same thinking and mentality of these terrorist fanatics who would use their own bodies as walking bombs to prove their faith to Allah and their cause.
Huh?
I'm not going to Iraq to share my faith... Never said that. At all. Didn't even imply that.(unless you somehow equate freedom and hope as purely Christian themes). How the heck did you come to that conclusion?
I'm going to serve my Country, not my church. In fact, I've turned down jobs in the minstry field to pursue this career.

It's clear from your previous posts you weren't over in Viet Nam to prove your loyalty; You were there because you were drafted. Plenty of good men and women went to "Nam" as volunteers. My father is one of them.
I don't think I have to die for my life to mean anything Rudedog. Again, where did you get that? I'm proud of what I have accomplished thus far in life. I'm just willing to serve where dying is possible and certainly believe since we only get to die once it might as well be for a good cause.
One more time, since clearly you didn't get this the first time, I'm going to Iraq to serve my country, not my church.

 

[reefraff]

Lets just hope the country isn't foolish enough to elect Obama. All his other faults aside he has zero foriegn policy experience.

 

[suzy]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2539023
What would you think of a Obama/Bloomberg presidency..
No way! We already have New York locked up! I think he should pick Powell. Who has learned more the last 8 years than him? Plus, think of all the right wing defectors we could get?
Did you see Powells interview on 60 minutes? I forgive him...I think most would.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2539023
I think he would be better suited, better recieved, and more respected by the international community...
What would you think of a Obama/Bloomberg presidency..

You keep telling me what you think. But not why you have reached these conclusions. why would he be better received? Why would he be better respected? and why is he better suited?
Obama/Bloomberg? Wouldn't happen they don't share similar views on Iraq. However for the most part I would find it appalling at Bloomberg changes parties like most people change underwear and would just show he is only after power.
What other reason is there to spend 75 million dollars of your own money to become mayor?

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2539001
could you expand on this in detail what exactly you mean? I am serious and curious how his limited experience will be over shadowed by his background and ties.

Let me answer this one since it doesn't seam to be getting an answer .
Obama will be a better choice because of his "ties" because as a member of a radical fundamental chuch he can identify with their cause . He will spend more time fixing health care than dealing with terrorism . He will allow the radicals to come in and wipe clean the nation of the evil white devils and then they can convert their faux christian church to islam and they will all live happy ever after .

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2538955
One last point... the "Surge".... is going to proove undoubtibably unsuccessful very soon... I think most GOP'ers don't take into account the cease fire that has been in place, which has stopped much of the violence... There are many militia type groups in Iraq... and the police there are essentially local militias w/ uniforms... Well the cease fire has ended and you will see the violence rise...and most likely will be civil war very soon... This is a messed up situation because there is no military solution... there are terrorists there... yes... but the greatest risk or issue is going to be the fight for power by local Iraq groups... This is going to happen regardless if we stay or not...We made this country and region even more unstable..., and what is troubling is that we didn't have a good enough reason to justify this war.
The "cease fire" that is in place is between one radical cleric and his "army" that is funded, backed, and supplied by Iran. This is not a civil war, it is a radical islamic cleric and his hired mercenaries.
The police force is hired by the Iraqi government and trained by the US military.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2539127
Lets just hope the country isn't foolish enough to elect Obama. All his other faults aside he has zero foriegn policy experience.
He does apparently have a "non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA" and a loyalty to his "native land"...

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2539115
Huh?
I'm not going to Iraq to share my faith... Never said that. At all. Didn't even imply that.(unless you somehow equate freedom and hope as purely Christian themes). How the heck did you come to that conclusion?
I'm going to serve my Country, not my church. In fact, I've turned down jobs in the minstry field to pursue this career.

It's clear from your previous posts you weren't over in Viet Nam to prove your loyalty; You were there because you were drafted. Plenty of good men and women went to "Nam" as volunteers. My father is one of them.
I don't think I have to die for my life to mean anything Rudedog. Again, where did you get that? I'm proud of what I have accomplished thus far in life. I'm just willing to serve where dying is possible and certainly believe since we only get to die once it might as well be for a good cause.
One more time, since clearly you didn't get this the first time, I'm going to Iraq to serve my country, not my church.
OK. So why did you preface your post with "To me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain"? Sounds like a religious trek to me.
"If I die doing my part to bring freedom and "hope" to 27 million people so be it. What purpose will your death serve?"
Sounds to me like you thinks it's better to die for a cause than to live your life to the fullest and the way YOU choose to live before you do finally die. Sorry, don't get it. So instead of trying to live out my natural life by staying out of dangerous situations to do it, I should go into risky situations that could shorten my time on earth, just so people will remember me? You have a month left before you leave. Hope that's enough time to get the statue of yourself made so they can place in your Town Square if you do by change get killed over there.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2539143
You keep telling me what you think. But not why you have reached these conclusions. why would he be better received? Why would he be better respected? and why is he better suited?
Obama/Bloomberg? Wouldn't happen they don't share similar views on Iraq. However for the most part I would find it appalling at Bloomberg changes parties like most people change underwear and would just show he is only after power.
What other reason is there to spend 75 million dollars of your own money to become mayor?
Isn't he an independent... Isn't the guy a billionaire... I don't see a problem if he is willing to spend his money, and not have public financing or fundrasiers...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2539216
He does apparently have a "non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA" and a loyalty to his "native land"...
What experience does Hillary have?
Why is McCain better suited if he contiues to follow Bush policy?
Did Bill Clinton or Regan have foreign policy experience?

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2538914
I see you're still on the island waiting for the next group of tourists to land. One of Bin Laden's top hinchman just announced the other day another attack is coming. You keep saying the same things -- "I just don't understand the mentality of waiting for them to come over here and do it. ". DUDE! THEY'RE ALREADY HERE. You think they're going to announce their presence? How many years was the 9/11 group living in the US before they hijacked planes? Jesus, we even taught them how to fly the planes. Terrorists are like cockroaches. It's impossible to kill everyone of them. Al Qaeda has a finite amount of troops?

Just last month they showed video of them training 10 year olds how to shoot an AK-47. We may have "the greatest military in the world", but fighting them in Iraq isn't going to stop them from walking across the Mexico and Canadian borders. Get your head out of the sand and face reality.

Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2539006
Here ya go journey. You have yourself a real safe trip...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2539084

The martyr has spoken. Worthy cause for who? Is this your 'mission' in life? To try and convince people who believe in a totally different religion that 'Jesus Christ Our Savior' is who they need to follow? What does your personal religious quest have to do with serving your country? You said we were over there to save the US from getting attacked again by the almighty Al Qaeda. Now it's the mission of the military to convert 27 million people over to Christianity? Religious fanatics like yourself lead very sheltered lives. You think your faith will protect you from the evils of the world. You want to go over to Baghdad and walk the streets like Jesus spreading the good word, thinking that will help their suffering. Sorry, it ain't gonna happen. While you're over there, why don't you open up a Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts franchise? "Free AK-47 with the purchase of every Venti-sized Double Chocolate Chip Frappachino. Buy a dozen Dunkin Holes, receive a free pipe bomb!"s="inlineimg" />

You're right. We're all gonna die someday. Some sooner than others. I missed my chance to use my death as a testament of my loyalty to this country when I was over in Nam. But it's sad if you think you need to die while performing some cause for your country for your life to mean anything. That's the same thinking and mentality of these terrorist fanatics who would use their own bodies as walking bombs to prove their faith to Allah and their cause.

What is your deal ? Are you so far left that your wishing death on your fellow americans , Your fellow humans ? Are you so blinded by anger and in your attacks of journeyman that you have to attack his religious beliefs too?
Try shutting down the hate and READ his posts . He is going over there to do a job . He has faith in his religion has nothing to do with the job he is going to do . He is only stating that he believes what he is doing is the right thing to do for the people he is going to help . He is also stating that he feels he has led a just christian life and that if he should die (I pray he doesnt) that he will not fear it because he will be on his way to god and will have served his pourpose on earth .

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2539207
The "cease fire" that is in place is between one radical cleric and his "army" that is funded, backed, and supplied by Iran. This is not a civil war, it is a radical islamic cleric and his hired mercenaries.
The police force is hired by the Iraqi government and trained by the US military.
That means they are mercenaires too? They are not an actual police force..
But you do have to attribute a good % of the Surge's reduction in violence to the cease fire.... It is now over... Look at the news... we are back to square one...
Curfews... shooting..bombs... rockets.. etc

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2539220
OK. So why did you preface your post with "To me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain"? Sounds like a religious trek to me.
"If I die doing my part to bring freedom and "hope" to 27 million people so be it. What purpose will your death serve?"
Sounds to me like you thinks it's better to die for a cause than to live your life to the fullest and the way YOU choose to live before you do finally die. Sorry, don't get it. So instead of trying to live out my natural life by staying out of dangerous situations to do it, I should go into risky situations that could shorten my time on earth, just so people will remember me? You have a month left before you leave. Hope that's enough time to get the statue of yourself made so they can place in your Town Square if you do by change get killed over there.
Not a religious trek at all. Simply pointing out I believe both the way we live and when we die both have value to me.
I'm not doing this for anyone to remember me Rudedog. In fact, I've mentioned twice, I believe, the fact that I'm heading over there. Once when you said to me "why don't you pack up and go" and on this thread when Suzy said similar. I'm doing it for my country and myself. I'm going over there to do my part to make the world better. I'm going becuase I want to look back in 10 years and say "ya, i tried to make a difference in a lot of lives".
To quote James: "Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes".
A meteor could come plummeting from the sky and land on me while I type this. I don't have any guarantee I'll be alive 2 minutes from now.
All I'm saying is that I'm going to do a job for a mission I believe in without being afraid of what "might" happen.
Rudedog, I don't think I ever tried to tell you how to live your life. I just told you how I was living mine.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2539225
What experience does Hillary have?
Why is McCain better suited if he contiues to follow Bush policy?
Did Bill Clinton or Regan have foreign policy experience?
Clinton has some experiance more than obama.
McCain staying the course of the nations best interests is fine by me .
Clinton and Regan didnt have ties to radical fudamental churchs .

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2539232
That means they are mercenaires too? They are not an actual police force..
But you do have to attribute a good % of the Surge's reduction in violence to the cease fire.... It is now over... Look at the news... we are back to square one...
Curfews... shooting..bombs... rockets.. etc

So let me understand this right .
You will call a police force trained to fight criminals and terrorist MERCENAIRES?
But you can't seam to make the ties between Obama and radical fudamentalism ?
Sounds a lot like you choose to acknowlage only that which you wish to be true .

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2539225
What experience does Hillary have?
Why is McCain better suited if he contiues to follow Bush policy?
Did Bill Clinton or Regan have foreign policy experience?
I won't argue for Hillary in this regard.
President Reagan was Governor of one of the largest border states for 8 years, served in the military for 8 years during WW2 (though poor eyesight restricted his traveling), ran for the Republican nominee for President 3 times, and was active in politics for almost 30 years before he became President.
As I am a big supporter of President Bush's foreign policy, which has brough about Democracy in Afghanistan, Iraq, brought a serious shift in nuclear proliferation from Pakistan and a closer alligning there, seen the withdrawal of Syria from Lebanon, seen Libya (the same Libya "Rev Wright" supported in the 80's when they were sponsoring terrorists) voluntarily surrender their nuclear program, seen NATO send forces into Afghanistan, seen more relief money than ever before being sent to Africa (you should appreciate that), seen multiple former Warsaw Pact nation's enter NATO, and seen a War on Terror exocuted globally, I'm all for McCain following that model.
President Clinton did not have any foreign policy experience; and that hurt us as a nation. That helps to explain the Korean debacle, the chinese military and weapons program expansion, the multiple attacks on US interests globally, and our botched policy in Somalia that lead to the deaths of almost 20 servicemen in a single battle before they were ordered to retreat and leave the country.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2539223
Isn't he an independent... Isn't the guy a billionaire... I don't see a problem if he is willing to spend his money, and not have public financing or fundrasiers...
Why is it so hard for people to answer a simple question instead of responding with a question?
Try this again.
why would Obama be better received? Why would Obama be better respected? and why is Obama better suited?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2539232
That means they are mercenaires too? They are not an actual police force..
But you do have to attribute a good % of the Surge's reduction in violence to the cease fire.... It is now over... Look at the news... we are back to square one...
Curfews... shooting..bombs... rockets.. etc
Rylan, a mercenary is a professional soldier hired to serve in a foreign army. (taken from dictionary.com) A police force, trained by soldiers, does not in any way fit the description. They are absolutely an actual police force. They are just serving in a war zone and therefore need to be trained adequately. Just as our SWAT teams in the USA are equipped and trained differently than our day to day patrol officers.
Square one was when Saddam was funding international terrorist groups and shooting at American and NATO pilots while stonewalling UN inspectors all the while ruling Iraq with an Iron and uncomprisingly sadistic fist. So no, we are not back to square one.
Please look at the news, Who is fighting? Do you see it is the Iraqi military and police force taking the lead? That's a huge accomplishment.