Bush's War

darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536229
Now tell me where the WMD's are cuz clearly you know were Saddam hid them.... so enlighten me where is the yellow cake, where is the mobile biowarfare trucks where are they mr. Reefraff i dont see them i have yet to hear a SINGLE account of those being found, however i have found evidence that we have destroyed waterlines please address this....
havent found any WMD
must be giving you and you neo con buddies a headache the UN could found nothing just like our military did...

Read, it is long but READ!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926630/posts
 
crimzy

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2536211
You obviously dont have the slightest clue what you are talking about.
Not sure which part of your ramble shows that the OP doesn't know what she is talking about. She asked the question for someone to show proof of the WMD's. You replied with a story, that most of us already know, about how the "yellowcake" sale was a farce. What did you prove aside from showing that our "intelligence" was compromised and inaccurate?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536229
Now tell me where the WMD's are cuz clearly you know were Saddam hid them.... so enlighten me where is the yellow cake, where is the mobile biowarfare trucks where are they mr. Reefraff i dont see them i have yet to hear a SINGLE account of those being found, however i have found evidence that we have destroyed waterlines please address this....
havent found any WMD
must be giving you and you neo con buddies a headache the UN could found nothing just like our military did...
Lets stay on subject here. You are passing along the Plamegate crap as fact. You didn't even know what the whole affair was about until I educated you. You said you had documents supporting Armitage's and Wilsons assertions that WMD's were non existant in Iraq. Got link?
 
V

veeraj87

Guest

Yesterday's report said that whether Iraq sought to buy lightly enriched "yellowcake" uranium from Niger is one of the few bits of prewar intelligence that remains an open question. Much of the rest of the intelligence suggesting a buildup of weapons of mass destruction was unfounded
they didnt find anything, they were still unsure, they could have done so much more to research this rather than going to war, regardless of his assessment the United States of America could have chosen other methods of finding whether or not Iraq bought Uranium, and again one was letting hte UN do their job, secondly Rumsfeld had control of the Pentagon which had their own investigation rendering at the time, why did he not come up with his own version of the data, why did he no send his own men from the pentagon, he was given control of this war plan and war, please tell me, this article only states that the investigation by wilson MIGHT have been skewed however it is not certain that yellow cake was even bought ... or any other WMD's existed this does NOT constitute war, as our president told the country and the world "we have confirmed steel tubes, that are full of uranium, our intelligence has sufficient information that Iraq has WMD" - WRONG and FALSE allegations.
 
crimzy

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2536239
Ok I will say it again I guess.
We are in Iraq, now what.
I find it amazing at the number of people that sit and comment about the civilian casuaties incurred in this war and in the next breath state we should pull out. How is this going to stop the civilian casualties? How is this going to make their lives easier if we don't stay and help finish the rebuilding and help set up security forces?
Someone please answer these specific questions for me.
As I see it Iran is just waiting for us to pull out so they can go in and gain the territory they have wanted for the last 40 years. They have repeatedly attacked iraq in history trying to gain control of that region. If we pull out what is to stop them from doing this and causing far more civilian casualties?
When we pulled out of vietnam the subsequent result was the murder and genocide of almost 2 million people, women, children, and men. This went on up until 1989. a hidden war between cambodia and Vietnam was started as campodia suppoorted the U.S. and aided us.
250,000 muslims were massacred. They were specificaslly targeted. Buddhism was suppressed and monks killed out right.
Now fast forward......Iraq today. as I stated Iran has wanted this region under it's control for a long time. If we pull out what stops Iran from attacking and killing many more civilains. What stops Syria from joining in the free for all and getting it's own piece of the pie?
No, we have a RESPONSIBILITY to stay. We helped create this mess. We should pick it up. Everyone complains about the up and coming generations not having enough responsibilty......why is that I wonder when the current and previous generation hold no responsibilty themselves.
Regardless if the reasons were wrong or unjust the bottomline is 80% of the population in this country agreed to it. we gave our stamp of approval. Congress overwhelming ly gave their approval. NOW we changed our mind and

[hr]
the people left behind to suffer our decision.....we don't care.
I hear so much about the plight of the people in this region from many, yet you care not one whit about their plight. This has become the feel good nation of lies. We lie to ourselves that we care and in reality we care not for the people of the world just how we, ourselves, are affected.
Just once, I want to hear one person that was against this war from the beginning understand responsibility and how it is now our responsibilty to better the lives of that region and stick it our until it is better or we are ASKED to leave.
Darth, you completely miss the point of the original poster. I have not read anywhere that the OP wants to remove all soldiers immediately yet you seem to claim that this is the argument. The argument being made, if I understand it, is that Bush fouled up and the war was wrong from the beginning. If you are conceding this point then we actually agree on something.
And for you suggesting that 80% of us wanted this war and gave our stamp of approval, this is ridiculous. But it does support my earlier assertion that statistics can be made to support any argument. Tell me where you took your poll from?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2536243
Not sure which part of your ramble shows that the OP doesn't know what she is talking about. She asked the question for someone to show proof of the WMD's. You replied with a story, that most of us already know, about how the "yellowcake" sale was a farce. What did you prove aside from showing that our "intelligence" was compromised and inaccurate?
I was asked to back up the fact the Plamegate story was bunk, which I did.
Other than the 500 or so Sarin and mustard gas shells that have been found there is no WMD there. Our intellegence as well as most other country's as well as the United Nations believed they were there.
The controversy over Yellowcake was caused by Bushes assertion that British Intellegence has discovered Iraq sought to buy Yellowcake. It appears that is true
http://www.factcheck.org/article222.html
 
V

veeraj87

Guest
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2536241
Read, it is long but READ!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926630/posts
this coming from someone that thought 2737 people was a significant poll... please respond to my question of how wrong is it to kill 500000 people by not giving them clean water, as for Vietnam i dont even want to get started there.... ur link btw i havent read it but if it proves that we have WMD's dont you think our media or at least Fox news woulda went crazy and told the world that we found something? ...darthtang im not argueing that we should pull out .....im argueing this is a wrong war and we should have never been the public needs to know that its sad that you cant address my points
 
V

veeraj87

Guest
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2536255
I was asked to back up the fact the Plamegate story was bunk, which I did.
Other than the 500 or so Sarin and mustard gas shells that have been found there is no WMD there. Our intellegence as well as most other country's as well as the United Nations believed they were there.
The controversy over Yellowcake was caused by Bushes assertion that British Intellegence has discovered Iraq sought to buy Yellowcake. It appears that is true
http://www.factcheck.org/article222.html
None of your links proves that these sales existed they just suggest that they were eminent possiblilties we did give enough time to allow UN inspections and proper removal of saddam, he was willing to let the inspectors in to investigate, this was a premature war on IRAQ, its simple you urself can not provide sufficent evidence that states they had something, and after the fact you cnat find a source that says they acutally did have something... so please move on to another point you clearly have no argument in that we were impatient and didnt want to follow the basic steps.
 
V

veeraj87

Guest
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2536256
So post up the part about Wilson and Armitage saying there were no WMD's before we invaded
your more then welcome to watch the parts of their interviews, or you can just watch the whole program
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Hey, it is a valid point to say we should have waited longer to invade. By the same token it is just as valid to say Bill Clinton should have invaded in 98 after the inspectors were kicked out instead of the limited missile stikes he chose instead. War is an imperfect endevor. Fact is the intellegnce was screwed up. In the 90's a decision was made to rely more on technology than human intellegence and it bit us in the butt.
You want to talk about unjust? How many people were starved out under Saddam and the UN's corrupt oil for food program? How about the mass graves of Hussiens victims?
This war isn't Bush's fault, it's the UN's. Had they actually enforced oil for food as planned Hussien would have been forced to comply with all the cease fire requirements and the inspectors would have been able to see the rest of the WMD's were destroyed if that is what actually happend to them.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536258
this coming from someone that thought 2737 people was a significant poll... please respond to my question of how wrong is it to kill 500000 people by not giving them clean water, as for Vietnam i dont even want to get started there.... ur link btw i havent read it but if it proves that we have WMD's dont you think our media or at least Fox news woulda went crazy and told the world that we found something? ...darthtang im not argueing that we should pull out .....im argueing this is a wrong war and we should have never been the public needs to know that its sad that you cant address my points

Ok let's address your points. You story about the water supply started in 1991. This means that if true the majority of the work and sanctions were done under Clinton's watch. So how is that the fault of teh current administration?
Second, you make comment that if there was something the media would have picked up on it and went with it, yet NOT ONE major media outlet has ever reported on this water supply contamination. Why is that then?
Third. what is the point about arguing the reasons for and leading up to the war? We are there, the choice was made. the public made the choice. so what do you gain by pointing all of this out and rehashing the reasons? No one ever complains that if we had entered WWII sooner, when asked repeatedly by other nations we could have avoided pearl harbor. NO, THAT GENERATION just did what needed to be done. Regardless of who's faulty policy caused for the mishap, they bucked up and did what needed to be done.
Now, we sit and point and complain at who is to blame for our current situation. Ok fine, so we find out who to blame...does it change the situation? Ok we find out we were wrong, does it change the situation?
as for believing the poll I read, not totally and I know it has room for error. But at this point it is the BEST guage we here state side have to go off of. since no other media outlet is polling.
 
crashbandicoot

crashbandicoot

Active Member

Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2536253
And for you suggesting that 80% of us wanted this war and gave our stamp of approval, this is ridiculous. But it does support my earlier assertion that statistics can be made to support any argument. Tell me where you took your poll from?

This is by far the most ognorant thing I have herd in theis thread . Post 9-11 The whold nation wanted blood and we wanted it now . There was a small VERY small portion of the people that were against war . But the majority wanted Bin laden , Husane , Kim jong, Hezbola, Al queda , You name a terorist group and we wanted to see them fry .
Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536168
First off let me start by saying it doesnt matter if its abc or fox news they both have media filters that are controlled by the government and a lot of things are censored,second so a grand total of 2787 people did this interview or survey leaving only about 500 per location they said they interviewed people out of a grand total of roughly in Baghdad... thats a LARGE pool of people rightttttttt
, i learned in school that this not significant when you have only interviewed hmmm less than a percent of the largest city in Iraq which is baghdad also these interviews came from controlled areas where the US military had secured, so yes it can be a little swayed and no, there is no way in Heck that 2787 people represent the country let alone just one city, this is not accurate at all, this is not a significant poll its for american viewers to support this war people like you that believe 2787 people is significant, imagine a poll in america this large it would be irrelevant and written off in a heart beat.

Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536263
your more then welcome to watch the parts of their interviews, or you can just watch the whole program


So ABC and FOX have these MEDIA filters and PBS doesn't ?
How conveinient for the truth to unfold from your source but debunk other sources .
 
V

veeraj87

Guest

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2536280
You want to talk about unjust? How many people were starved out under Saddam and the UN's corrupt oil for food program? How about the mass graves of Hussiens victims?
This war isn't Bush's fault, it's the UN's. Had they actually enforced oil for food as planned Hussien would have been forced to comply with all the cease fire requirements and the inspectors would have been able to see the rest of the WMD's were destroyed if that is what actually happend to them.
how can you say that when we are the ones who dileberatly distroyed the water supply?... you cant be seriously trying to justify that this isnt as bad, as what saddam did, that is sad, thats when you know we are at an ALL TIME LOW... when you say hey were not as bad as saddam... thats a big WOW....
to you and your thinking process, its unjust to have 500000 innocent people die in any context, and in this context its the MODEL country doing it, and that is why its wrong and unjust, we should have had a better plan instead of rushing ... so please dont beat around the "BUSH", the fact is were killing people by not giving them clean water, and we are killing people mainly because we rushed the war, this is why it is UNJUST period. i dont give a crap if its a DEMO or REPUB, bill clinton has done plenty of wrongs, im only talking about this administration because its the one that waged the war... so please dont say this war isnt unjust, killing innocent people is always UNJUST and WRONG dont try to justify the killing of these innocent people with the wrongs of Saddam thats just LOW...
 
crashbandicoot

crashbandicoot

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2536284
Third. what is the point about arguing the reasons for and leading up to the war? We are there, the choice was made. the public made the choice. so what do you gain by pointing all of this out and rehashing the reasons? No one ever complains that if we had entered WWII sooner, when asked repeatedly by other nations we could have avoided pearl harbor. NO, THAT GENERATION just did what needed to be done. Regardless of who's faulty policy caused for the mishap, they bucked up and did what needed to be done.
AMEN
 
V

veeraj87

Guest
Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot
http:///forum/post/2536287
This is by far the most ognorant thing I have herd in theis thread . Post 9-11 The whold nation wanted blood and we wanted it now . There was a small VERY small portion of the people that were against war . But the majority wanted Bin laden , Husane , Kim jong, Hezbola, Al queda , You name a terorist group and we wanted to see them fry .
So ABC and FOX have these MEDIA filters and PBS doesn't ?
How conveinient for the truth to unfold from your source but debunk other sources .

im not saying that PBS doesnt have filters for one, im just suggesting this is a good source from what i have seen and heard, two i whole heartedly disagree that we wanted WAR as a method of frying these guys, acutally the american public was shocked that we waged war, forgive me if i am wrong but Bush didnt know go to the public for this war, instead he was given constitutional rights as president to make this descision to start the war... soo no the PUBLIC didnt choose to go to WAR the president did, we did however i agree want those people removed...
 
V

veeraj87

Guest

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2536284
Third. what is the point about arguing the reasons for and leading up to the war? We are there, the choice was made. the public made the choice. so what do you gain by pointing all of this out and rehashing the reasons? No one ever complains that if we had entered WWII sooner, when asked repeatedly by other nations we could have avoided pearl harbor. NO, THAT GENERATION just did what needed to be done. Regardless of who's faulty policy caused for the mishap, they bucked up and did what needed to be done.
as for believing the poll I read, not totally and I know it has room for error. But at this point it is the BEST guage we here state side have to go off of. since no other media outlet is polling.
SO in essence your saying that killing innocent people is fine, i mean that wasnt our primary goal anyways right it was to find the WMD and remove saddam so that justifys our war and the killing of 500000 people (its seems that figure is easy to forget)..... hmmm sounds very familiar to a man named Hitler who wanted his people to rally behind him and wanted to blame somebody for their bad economics so what better then killing the jews right, i mean our primary objective was to "save the people of Iraq" we sure are saving them were just digging a 9 ft ditch and throwing their bodies in them... but who cares right its just a # and we wanted to fight this war so lets sit back and not challenge the fact that millions are dieing just like we sat back and pretended that nothing was going on in Germany during WWII ... thats wrong... this is WRONG ... we might not be gasing them but we sure are killing them through various other methods water being one of them
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536261
None of your links proves that these sales existed they just suggest that they were eminent possiblilties
Bush never said they did. He said British intelligence discovered Iraq had attempted to buy yellowcake. That was another piece of the puzzle in why everyone was so sure Iraq still had an active weapons program.
When you get the time read this http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3749494.shtml
It is about the FBI agent that did the long term interrogation on Hussein, According to the story Hussein tryed to make people believe he was still hiding his WMD programs. He also said he didn't believe the US would actually invade until it was too late to stop it
 
crashbandicoot

crashbandicoot

Active Member

Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536288
how can you say that when we are the ones who dileberatly distroyed the water supply?... you cant be seriously trying to justify that this isnt as bad, as what saddam did, that is sad, thats when you know we are at an ALL TIME LOW... when you say hey were not as bad as saddam... thats a big WOW....
to you and your thinking process, its unjust to have 500000 innocent people die in any context, and in this context its the MODEL country doing it, and that is why its wrong and unjust, we should have had a better plan instead of rushing ... so please dont beat around the "BUSH", the fact is were killing people by not giving them clean water, and we are killing people mainly because we rushed the war, this is why it is UNJUST period. i dont give a crap if its a DEMO or REPUB, bill clinton has done plenty of wrongs, im only talking about this administration because its the one that waged the war... so please dont say this war isnt unjust, killing innocent people is always UNJUST and WRONG dont try to justify the killing of these innocent people with the wrongs of Saddam thats just LOW...
Had the previous administration Done there part in the region . Had the UN enforced the sanctions and the terms of the original sease fire agrement . There would be a lot less dead in the over all prespective . But they didn't . You want to cry spilled milk about an administration that has done a lot to clean up the world mess in the middle east . You want to point blame about the 500000 dead . Point it at the shekes in the region that are among the wealthest people in the world but yet they are more worried about building oil refineries and pumping stations , Harbours to float in the barges for their presious oil. Why are these same people not Rebuilding the area ? Why did they not oust the Dictartorship of sadam ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top