Bush's War

[veeraj87]

Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot
http:///forum/post/2536299
You want to cry spilled milk about an administration that has done a lot to clean up the world mess in the middle east . You want to point blame about the 500000 dead . Point it at the shekes in the region that are among the wealthest people in the world but yet they are more worried about building oil refineries and pumping stations , Harbours to float in the barges for their presious oil. Why are these same people not Rebuilding the area ? Why did they not oust the Dictartorship of sadam ?
haha what did we do to clean up the middle east kill 500000 people by not giving them the basic needs of water... HAHAHA wow yea you want to point it on everyone but our country own up to what we have done its shameful indeed that is why this war was simply unjust and wrong..... your saying we dont care about our saudi friends that were potentially threatened by the republican gaurd???? and that we dont care about our share of oil i tried avoiding this but man u just hd to mention oil... you dont think we want a cutt of the remaining oil... you dont thinkthat by doing the saudis a favor we wont get full access before anyone else to the oil wells???

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536288
how can you say that when we are the ones who dileberatly distroyed the water supply?... you cant be seriously trying to justify that this isnt as bad, as what saddam did, that is sad, thats when you know we are at an ALL TIME LOW... when you say hey were not as bad as saddam... thats a big WOW....

to you and your thinking process, its unjust to have 500000 innocent people die in any context, and in this context its the MODEL country doing it, and that is why its wrong and unjust, we should have had a better plan instead of rushing ... so please dont beat around the "BUSH", the fact is were killing people by not giving them clean water, and we are killing people mainly because we rushed the war, this is why it is UNJUST period. i dont give a crap if its a DEMO or REPUB, bill clinton has done plenty of wrongs, im only talking about this administration because its the one that waged the war... so please dont say this war isnt unjust, killing innocent people is always UNJUST and WRONG dont try to justify the killing of these innocent people with the wrongs of Saddam thats just LOW...

What innocent people have we TARGETED? I have a kid over there now and I know for a fact that our rules of engagement place him at greater risk because we do everything in our power to avoid civilian deaths. Civilians die in war, sad fact of life. What seperates us from them (Terrorists) is we try to avoid civilian casulties,thats their main target.
By the way, We have already spent Billions on their water supply.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AWhttp:///forum/post/2536074
Ok a few things.
As I see it Iran is just waiting for us to pull out so they can go in and gain the territory they have wanted for the last 40 years. They have repeatedly attacked iraq in history trying to gain control of that region. If we pull out what is to stop them from doing this and causing far more civilian casualties?
Let Iran have it. Maybe they can keep OPEC in check and manage the oil better. Better yet, maybe they'll do us a favor by killing each other off!!!
When we pulled out of vietnam the subsequent result was the murder and genocide of almost 2 million people, women, children, and men. This went on up until 1989. a hidden war between cambodia and Vietnam was started as campodia suppoorted the U.S. and aided us.
Who cares? I was in that useless war. Yet another country they can completely do away with.
250,000 muslims were massacred. They were specificaslly targeted. Buddhism was suppressed and monks killed out right.
Only 250,000? Let Iran go in and finish the rest of them off.
Now fast forward......Iraq today. as I stated Iran has wanted this region under it's control for a long time. If we pull out what stops Iran from attacking and killing many more civilains. What stops Syria from joining in the free for all and getting it's own piece of the pie?
It's a Middle East problem. As stated above, let them finish each other off.
No, we have a RESPONSIBILITY to stay. We helped create this mess. We should pick it up. Everyone complains about the up and coming generations not having enough responsibilty......why is that I wonder when the current and previous generation hold no responsibilty themselves.
Why is it the US's responsibility to save the world's mankind from oppression? You're right on one front. We did create this mess. The problem is, the mess should've never been created. The only responsibility we have now is to protect our own. We're at 5,000 deaths and rising. No American life is worth saving any of those people that live over there.
Regardless if the reasons were wrong or unjust the bottomline is 80% of the population in this country agreed to it. we gave our stamp of approval. Congress overwhelming ly gave their approval. NOW we changed our mind and

[hr]
the people left behind to suffer our decision.....we don't care.
The only way you could even justify 80% approval is right after 9-11. We were bamboozled into thinking we were going over there to get the SOB's that violated our country. Now 5 years later, we're just over there being targets for a bunch of religious factions to shoot at.

I hear so much about the plight of the people in this region from many, yet you care not one whit about their plight. This has become the feel good nation of lies. We lie to ourselves that we care and in reality we care not for the people of the world just how we, ourselves, are affected.
YOU BETCHA BABY!! WELCOME TO THE 21ST CENTURY.
Just once, I want to hear one person that was against this war from the beginning understand responsibility and how it is now our responsibilty to better the lives of that region and stick it our until it is better or we are ASKED to leave.
Dude, you'll NEVER hear that from me. You want to waste your time and breath saving the plight of the world, go join the Peace Corps. Bush and his cronies have spent over 1 TRILLION dollars on this useless charade. What have you got to show for it? A majority of people over there still despise us, and could care less if we stay or go. Sure they'll keep praising the US soldiers and our government, because we keep giving them money. Meanwhile, US businesses are dropping left and right, the housing market is down the toilet, we're at the start of a Recession, cities like Detroit are turning into ghost towns, gas costs almost as much as a gallon of milk, and unemployment is beginning to skyrocket. But hey! You want to save a bunch of $#

$# who would just as easily stick a knife in your back while they're holding their hand out for more freebies. Sorry, I have no problem getting out of there NOW. Life is too short to worry about someone on the other side of the world and their problems. I have to worry about keeping my own head afloat. You'd rather see thousands of Americans living under bridges due to losing their homes and jobs because "It's our responsibility to better the lives of that region."

 

[veeraj87]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2536304
What innocent people have we TARGETED? I have a kid over there now and I know for a fact that our rules of engagement place him at greater risk because we do everything in our power to avoid civilian deaths. Civilians die in war, sad fact of life. What seperates us from them (Terrorists) is we try to avoid civilian casulties,thats their main target.
By the way, We have already spent Billions on their water supply.
How did we avoid killing civilians?? how did we avoid killing them by not giving them water.. YOU explain to me the reasoning for deliberately destroying the water supply to Iraqs biggest city and KNOWING FULL well the consequences of those actions THAT IS DELIBERATE that is not avoiding ... sir that is WRONG i dont know how many times i have to repeat that

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536293
im not saying that PBS doesnt have filters for one, im just suggesting this is a good source from what i have seen and heard, two i whole heartedly disagree that we wanted WAR as a method of frying these guys, acutally the american public was shocked that we waged war, forgive me if i am wrong but Bush didnt know go to the public for this war, instead he was given constitutional rights as president to make this descision to start the war... soo no the PUBLIC didnt choose to go to WAR the president did, we did however i agree want those people removed...

So did you just live in a cave the rest of late 2001 early 2002 ? Because everybody I know of wanted revenge against terrorism . Your right the president did choose to go to war against terrorism and any country harbouring terrorists . Iraq has in the past been linked to terrorists . Iraq has offered safe passage to terrorists . Sadam himself terrorized his OWN country. He repediatly taunted the UN and the rest of the nations involved pre and post 9-11. WMD or not he was a threat to the stablity of the region and to the world . Al Queda was in Iraq and is still in Iraq . The Insurgence of al queda and sympathetic radical Islamic fundamentalists in Iraq has be on the decline . DO you think The Common iraqi would have a better life with dictator ship or terrorist cells operating in their country ? Sorry but when you bake a cake you have to crack a few eggs and make a mess . Had the IRAQIs handeled their own baking years ago then they wouldnt be in the position they are now . Had they spent more time building a democratic infastructure they would be better off . But again why build your infastructure when you can just live in the dark ages under some PSYCHO's dictatorship ?

 

[darthtang aw]

I was wrong on the percentage of americans that supported going into Iraq....it was 65%.
the U.S. congress vote was over 80%

 

[veeraj87]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2536304
What innocent people have we TARGETED? I have a kid over there now and I know for a fact that our rules of engagement place him at greater risk because we do everything in our power to avoid civilian deaths. Civilians die in war, sad fact of life. What seperates us from them (Terrorists) is we try to avoid civilian casulties,thats their main target.
By the way, We have already spent Billions on their water supply.
I smell BULLSheyat
BTW i dont give a crap about whos admin did this wheather it was bill or bush, i dont care, but that were in a war now and that we full blown knew that it would kill people, further makes the war wrong, instead of making it better we made it worse by adding the war
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0808-07.htm
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassd...04rept_91.html

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2536306
Dude, you'll NEVER hear that from me. You want to waste your time and breath saving the plight of the world, go join the Peace Corps. Bush and his cronies have spent over 1 TRILLION dollars on this useless charade. What have you got to show for it? A majority of people over there still despise us, and could care less if we stay or go. Sure they'll keep praising the US soldiers and our government, because we keep giving them money. Meanwhile, US businesses are dropping left and right, the housing market is down the toilet, we're at the start of a Recession, cities like Detroit are turning into ghost towns, gas costs almost as much as a gallon of milk, and unemployment is beginning to skyrocket. But hey! You want to save a bunch of $#

$# who would just as easily stick a knife in your back while they're holding their hand out for more freebies. Sorry, I have no problem getting out of there NOW. Life is too short to worry about someone on the other side of the world and their problems. I have to worry about keeping my own head afloat. You'd rather see thousands of Americans living under bridges due to losing their homes and jobs because "It's our responsibility to better the lives of that region."
That point of view I can respect. Yet you are not one that has constantly commented on the civilian casualties in that reason.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536303
haha what did we do to clean up the middle east kill 500000 people by not giving them the basic needs of water... HAHAHA wow yea you want to point it on everyone but our country own up to what we have done its shameful indeed that is why this war was simply unjust and wrong..... your saying we dont care about our saudi friends that were potentially threatened by the republican gaurd???? and that we dont care about our share of oil i tried avoiding this but man u just hd to mention oil... you dont think we want a cutt of the remaining oil... you dont thinkthat by doing the saudis a favor we wont get full access before anyone else to the oil wells???

So we care about our saudi friends but not the Iraqis ? We love and take care of the sudis because their oil but not the iraqis for their oil ? Your arguing a double edge sword on this one .
Seriously pick a topic of the war in the middle east and stay on it . Stop jumping around to make it look like you have some idea of the turmoil in the region . If you want to be distraut by the number of dead then go for it . But stop trying to tie it all to everthing the bush administration has done . If you are so outraged go over to IRAQ and help them instead of the heroic keyboard warrior action from the comfort of California . Join the red cross and head on over and be part of the solution .

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536318
I smell BULLSheyat
BTW i dont give a crap about whos admin did this wheather it was bill or bush, i dont care, but that were in a war now and that we full blown knew that it would kill people, further makes the war wrong, instead of making it better we made it worse by adding the war
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0808-07.htm
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassd...04rept_91.html
So who are you voting for?
also where do you keep getting this 500,000 figure of civilians.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536318
I smell BULLSheyat
BTW i dont give a crap about whos admin did this wheather it was bill or bush, i dont care, but that were in a war now and that we full blown knew that it would kill people, further makes the war wrong, instead of making it better we made it worse by adding the war
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0808-07.htm
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassd...04rept_91.html

Sorry to break it to you but people die in wars some guilty some inocent . There will never be the peacful utopian socity that your dreaming about . Some one will always be at war on some scale .
Should the tables be reversed I would sure hope somebody was willing to fight for our country to free us from opression . I would be willing to give my life so that other might live in freedom . But thats just me .

 

[veeraj87]

i forget which link its in that 500000 died because of our sanctions on medicine and destruction of water, but its one this page DW... and i totally know what your talking about when im jumping around im just covering the basis of what your talkin about i dont want to act like im not addressing the other issues, and excuse me speak for yourself i am well aware of the situation in the Middle east, please dont tell me what i know and dont know, i am distraut by how many have died, its just wrong... and i am blaming this administration for a large part of the deaths, but Bill does deserve the same amount of blame. PERIOD. but the fact that this admin is in office and hasnt owned up to its share of mistakes is wrong.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2536284
We are there, the choice was made. the public made the choice. so what do you gain by pointing all of this out and rehashing the reasons?
I'm a little confused here... when was the "Do you want to go to war?" vote and why wasn't I invited? How did the public make the choice?
Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot
http:///forum/post/2536284
This is by far the most ognorant thing I have herd in theis thread . Post 9-11 The whold nation wanted blood and we wanted it now . There was a small VERY small portion of the people that were against war . But the majority wanted Bin laden , Husane , Kim jong, Hezbola, Al queda , You name a terorist group and we wanted to see them fry .

And Crash, you're 100% wrong (see I like statistics too). Most intelligent people wanted to go after the people that actually attacked us and not some unrelated arab nation. Bush disagreed.
On a separate note, this is the first time I've ever been called ognorant???

 

[veeraj87]

Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot
http:///forum/post/2536331
Sorry to break it to you but people die in wars some guilty some inocent . There will never be the peacful utopian socity that your dreaming about . Some one will always be at war on some scale .
Should the tables be reversed I would sure hope somebody was willing to fight for our country to free us from opression . I would be willing to give my life so that other might live in freedom . But thats just me .
"sorry to break it to you" but i can understand if a few hundred civilians died maybe even a couple thousand but over 500000+ people and 5000 a month... wow you got to be kidding

im not dreaming of a utopian society im saying that there is something seriously wrong with our war tactics if we have 500000 die in our war... soo SORRY TO BREAK IT TO YOU!!! you got to be an idiot not to see that is a LARGE figure and is not small ... thats a lot of civilians buddy

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536336
i forget which link its in that 500000 died because of our sanctions on medicine and destruction of water, but its one this page DW... and i totally know what your talking about when im jumping around im just covering the basis of what your talkin about i dont want to act like im not addressing the other issues, and excuse me speak for yourself i am well aware of the situation in the Middle east, please dont tell me what i know and dont know, i am distraut by how many have died, its just wrong... and i am blaming this administration for a large part of the deaths, but Bill does deserve the same amount of blame. PERIOD. but the fact that this admin is in office and hasnt owned up to its share of mistakes is wrong.
well why dont you face up to your part and go help out ? Oh thats right its so much easier to point fingers .

 

[darthtang aw]

Veeraj87, I don't understand your basic point or what you are trying to accomplish. You state you don't support pulling out of Iraq. You harp about the number dead due to sanctions placed by the UN (not the US) due to water problems...so what are you trying to get across? What is your end result that would make you happy?
May as well take up the native american genocide we caused as well.....but those things are in the past, what is the point about harping about the past? Move on and do something for the betterment of the future.
Crimzy there was not a national vote, but your representative that was elected by your area cast the vote for you...and again public opinion poll stated a majority wanted to go into Iraq. I can't believe you and I are down to discussing semantics....You and I must have run out of serious debates to have between each other...lol

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536342
"sorry to break it to you" but i can understand if a few hundred civilians died maybe even a couple thousand but over 500000+ people and 5000 a month... wow you got to be kidding

im not dreaming of a utopian society im saying that there is something seriously wrong with our war tactics if we have 500000 die in our war... soo SORRY TO BREAK IT TO YOU!!! you got to be an idiot not to see that is a LARGE figure and is not small ... thats a lot of civilians buddy

WE are not Killing them . Their own lazyness is killing them . Maybe instead of waiting for help they need to do it on their own . Maybe they should have over thrown sadam before we had to . But no instead they will wait for the infedels (thats the USA and any other western world country ) to come in and make it right . SO excuse me if I dont feel bad for them . If your in an abusive situation such as the iraqi people were then they should have changed it . THEY SHOULD HAVE CHANGED IT. As for your 500,000 number and trying to pin that on America . Because we took out their water supply ? If they would put a little effort into it they would have had it back in working order long before your magic number .
I will give you an A for effort on your use of the emontioncons and that last little dig about being an idiot . Too bad it all fell flat and you look much more silly . But again A for the effort .

 

[crashbandicoot]

Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2536340
I'm a little confused here... when was the "Do you want to go to war?" vote and why wasn't I invited? How did the public make the choice?
And Crash, you're 100% wrong (see I like statistics too). Most intelligent people wanted to go after the people that actually attacked us and not some unrelated arab nation. Bush disagreed.
On a separate note, this is the first time I've ever been called ognorant???

The nation was pretty PO'd and you can try and word it anyway you want we all know thats what lawyers are good at . But it none the less remains fact WE WANTED REVENGE and it was general consinsus that if your were a terrorist or suport terrorism you were looking down the barrel of the gun from now on . We would not be a nation of victims . That there was going to be a price to pay . SO you are 100% wrong . Maybe in your mind that wasnt the over all feeling of the nation . But thats your point of veiw not the nations .

 

[veeraj87]

Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot
http:///forum/post/2536357
WE are not Killing them . Their own lazyness is killing them . Maybe instead of waiting for help they need to do it on their own . Maybe they should have over thrown sadam before we had to . But no instead they will wait for the infedels (thats the USA and any other western world country ) to come in and make it right . SO excuse me if I dont feel bad for them . If your in an abusive situation such as the iraqi people were then they should have changed it . THEY SHOULD HAVE CHANGED IT. As for your 500,000 number and trying to pin that on America . Because we took out their water supply ? If they would put a little effort into it they would have had it back in working order long before your magic number .
I will give you an A for effort on your use of the emontioncons and that last little dig about being an idiot . Too bad it all fell flat and you look much more silly . But again A for the effort .
you my friend are ignorant of the facts that i have provided to you.... ignorant go back to school

 

[veeraj87]

you have no heart and now you have stooped to a new low by making the innocent people of iraq seem like the BAD GUYS... boy has someone put a spell on you... you are the most ignorant of them all.... to not feel bad for killing innocent people is a crime my friend you need some psychiatric help and please for our sake get it soon