Bush's War

1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536293
im not saying that PBS doesnt have filters for one, im just suggesting this is a good source from what i have seen and heard, two i whole heartedly disagree that we wanted WAR as a method of frying these guys, acutally the american public was shocked that we waged war, forgive me if i am wrong but Bush didnt know go to the public for this war, instead he was given constitutional rights as president to make this descision to start the war... soo no the PUBLIC didnt choose to go to WAR the president did, we did however i agree want those people removed...
Please read the Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq passed overwhelmingly by both Houses of Congress....
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0021002-2.html
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2536411
What I find interesting is how many other places in the world have these same human right violations.
Ahh, but which of those countries specifically surrendered to the USA after losing a war and signing a peace treaty they began to almost immediately violate? Which of these other countries governments' funded interational teroorist groups? Which of these countries have had 17 UN Resolutions pased against them? Which of these countries repeatedly kicked out UN inspectors?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536430
...we dont even have a plan to implement a government there in iraq right now its totally a mess..
Really? I was fairly certain we established an interim government in Iraq, who then wrote an Iraqi Constitution, which has lead to multiple National and Local Elections...



 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2536449
.... just like we did in Vietnam right, cuz those people are THRIVING now,
You realize we lost Vietnam when we withdrew, right? Really can't blame us today for the outcome of their country as a result of the Communists taking over...
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2536784
I wonder how many terrorists are created when they see their family members killed in this mess....
Rest easy. According to Al Qaeda leaders in Iraq, apparently not enough.
"Al-Qaeda in Iraq faces an “extraordinary crisis”. Last year's mass defection of ordinary Sunnis from al-Qaeda to the US military “created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight”. The terrorist group's security structure suffered “total collapse”.
These are the words not of al-Qaeda's enemies but of one of its own leaders in Anbar province — once the group's stronghold. They were set down last summer in a 39-page letter seized during a US raid on an al-Qaeda base near Samarra in November...."
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2536990
suzy direct question for you.
When we pulled out of Vietnam the direct result was 2 million cambodian and south vietnamese slaughtered by pol pot. A hidden war occurred between vietnam and Cambodia up until 1989.
So with that said, if we pull out now and Iran invades. Takes over Iraq that has essentially no defense and starts killing kurds and sunnis because Iran is shiate, what then, we let it happen? Even though it is our fault for putting those people in that situation?

And, follow up question, If I may tag along Darth;
What was the result of us pulling out of Afghanistan in 1989 after the Russians were defeated?
 
rudedog40

rudedog40

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2536990
suzy direct question for you.
When we pulled out of Vietnam the direct result was 2 million cambodian and south vietnamese slaughtered by pol pot. A hidden war occurred between vietnam and Cambodia up until 1989.
So with that said, if we pull out now and Iran invades. Takes over Iraq that has essentially no defense and starts killing kurds and sunnis because Iran is shiate, what then, we let it happen? Even though it is our fault for putting those people in that situation?
And your problem with this is....? Let Iran take care of the insurgents. Why should more American soldier lives have to be taken when it's inevitable this 'war' will never end? Iraq has no defense? Read the news. The new Iraqi army has finally gotten some cahones and is giving the militants in Basra 72 hours to cease fire and leave or "they will die". The best thing that could happen is to just let them kill each other off. Problem solved.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
http:///forum/post/2537177
And your problem with this is....? Let Iran take care of the insurgents. Why should more American soldier lives have to be taken when it's inevitable this 'war' will never end? Iraq has no defense? Read the news. The new Iraqi army has finally gotten some cahones and is giving the militants in Basra 72 hours to cease fire and leave or "they will die". The best thing that could happen is to just let them kill each other off. Problem solved.

Problem is what occurs in this region will affect us eventually. several situations will arise, Iran would gain control of more oil in the region after they invade and conquer Iraq after we pull out as the could conquer that country in a matter of days. Greatly affecting our abilities to operate as a country or strong arm us into allowing their nuclear program to go through over oil. This would also possibly force us to go in again to reliberate the country (with U.N. approval as the did with sadaam) but place our troops in an even more volatile situation as Iran's military would have the country and we would have to wrest control back and once again try to root out insurgents and such.
The kurds have been staunche supporters of the U.S. since 1991, we would be leaving a large group of people that support us to die at the hands of genocidal killers from Iran.
and finally (but not as serious an issue) say hello to 10 dollar a gallon gasoline.
 
crashbandicoot

crashbandicoot

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2536793
The topic is about a documentary on the war. It is about the Bush administrations tie to the war. This post is spot on.
Buyt, since you bring up helping the Iraqis, we do have an all volunteer militia, not counting stop loss. Your avatar looks like you might be just one of the few, the proud, the Marines. How about leaving your family for the next decade or so and helping out?
Sorry to pop your bubble there sweety but I served my country already . So please dont atempt to lecture me on the PRICE of war that our troops and their families pay . I know full well the cost of FREEDOM .

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2536797
Really? Recruiters are in the phone book, at your local high school and at the mall. Can I help you find them?

So are pyschiatrists and mental counciling you might want to look one of those up while you got your phone book out . I understand your not real quick on the take but if you look at my profile it points out that I am 33 years old . I dont think I will be catching the recruter when he stops by the school. Maybe when I am at a football game of my brother inlaws I'll get lucky and can talk to the ROTC ? Would that make you happy ?
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2536806
I believe all the armed forces are recruiting. The Marines might have a stronger dress code, but they can spruce you up, Crash.
Again I did my time and yes the Marines do a good job of Sprucing up people . Something I strongly recomend to a lot of kids . The next generation could use some morals installed into them . The military offers more than just help paying for tuitition.
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2536893
You really shouldn't talk about Crash like that. Really, that is uncalled for.
In all honesty you dont know me you dont know a thing about my life or my experiances . Your personal attacks only show that you are doing nothing more than lashing out at anybody you can , I just happen to be a convienent target for you today. You really need to seek some profesional help . I am sure there are many programs in your area that you could involve your self in . You seam to suffer from multiple disorders . You really should try to spend a little less time being hostile and do some self reflection on ways to improve your life as a whole . If you feel the need to continue your ranting and raving then I wish you well . I my self have better things to do than to argue with you and the like minded . I wish you all the well with your anger managment .
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2536990
suzy direct question for you.
When we pulled out of Vietnam the direct result was 2 million cambodian and south vietnamese slaughtered by pol pot. A hidden war occurred between vietnam and Cambodia up until 1989.
So with that said, if we pull out now and Iran invades. Takes over Iraq that has essentially no defense and starts killing kurds and sunnis because Iran is shiate, what then, we let it happen? Even though it is our fault for putting those people in that situation?
What happened in Vietnam had to happen. We left, a civil war broke out, the people who lived there fought it out to become what they are now.
When (not if) we leave Iraq, they will have to find a way to live together or get another dictator or be ruled by religious leaders/ fanatics. Our meddling again comes back to bite us in the ass.
The problem I see with McCain saying he will stay for "as long as it takes" ( a lie to get elected) is that we cannot keep up this level of support for "as long as it takes". How can we afford to keep giving them money, and keep the "surge" going? How can we afford to keep losing our sons and daughters for this foreign policy blunder? Eventually, we have to leave and then the people who live there will have to work it out. We gave them "democracy", if they want it, they will have it. If not, they will have something else.
Now, direct question for you: How did our meddling in Iran, when we put in the Shaw, work for us? How did our giving weapons to Saddam to fight Iran work for us?
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2537077
Ahh, but which of those countries specifically surrendered to the USA after losing a war and signing a peace treaty they began to almost immediately violate? Which of these other countries governments' funded interational teroorist groups? Which of these countries have had 17 UN Resolutions pased against them? Which of these countries repeatedly kicked out UN inspectors?

Which of these other countries had oil?
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2537086
Really? I was fairly certain we established an interim government in Iraq, who then wrote an Iraqi Constitution, which has lead to multiple National and Local Elections...
We helped put into power a corrupt and unstable government which has little support from the people. Strong work, again.
 
suzy

suzy

Member

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2537110
Rest easy. According to Al Qaeda leaders in Iraq, apparently not enough.
"Al-Qaeda in Iraq faces an “extraordinary crisis”. Last year's mass defection of ordinary Sunnis from al-Qaeda to the US military “created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight”. The terrorist group's security structure suffered “total collapse”.
These are the words not of al-Qaeda's enemies but of one of its own leaders in Anbar province — once the group's stronghold. They were set down last summer in a 39-page letter seized during a US raid on an al-Qaeda base near Samarra in November...."
One Bin Laden created is too many.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2537337
The kurds have been staunche supporters of the U.S. since 1991, we would be leaving a large group of people that support us to die at the hands of genocidal killers from Iran.
and finally (but not as serious an issue) say hello to 10 dollar a gallon gasoline.
We left them to die before, right? The mass genocide that keeps coming up as a reason to invade Iraq was the Kurds...Want to elaborate on the reason they were killed?
Say hello to new technology, say hello to brilliant Americans meeting the challenge of finding new energy sources.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by Crashbandicoot
http:///forum/post/2537399
. I understand your not real quick on the take but if you look at my profile it points out that I am 33 years old .
33 is not too old to return to active duty. Our country needs you to defend us. And, think of those poor Iraqis who need you to be their police.
You still have a good 30 years to practice what you preach.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2537485
What happened in Vietnam had to happen. We left, a civil war broke out, the people who lived there fought it out to become what they are now.
When (not if) we leave Iraq, they will have to find a way to live together or get another dictator or be ruled by religious leaders/ fanatics. Our meddling again comes back to bite us in the ass.
The problem I see with McCain saying he will stay for "as long as it takes" ( a lie to get elected) is that we cannot keep up this level of support for "as long as it takes". How can we afford to keep giving them money, and keep the "surge" going? How can we afford to keep losing our sons and daughters for this foreign policy blunder? Eventually, we have to leave and then the people who live there will have to work it out. We gave them "democracy", if they want it, they will have it. If not, they will have something else.
Now, direct question for you: How did our meddling in Iran, when we put in the Shaw, work for us? How did our giving weapons to Saddam to fight Iran work for us?
You cannot rewrite history, no matter how much you wish too to try to strengthen your opinions...
Vietnam was about as much of a "Civil War" as WW1. Vietnam was a war against communist China and Russia, which used the North Vietnamese like pawns (much as we used the Afghani's in the 80's against the Soviets). What happened there (I like how you justify 2+ million civilian deaths by saying "it had to happen") absolutely did not have to happen. Had we not retreated it wouldn't have happened. Numerous reports and interviews since Vietnam have shown the entire purpose of the Tet Offensive was to win the battle of propaganda in the media back home, not on the battlefield (sound familiar?)
Our "meddling"? Did we "meddle" when we went to war against Hitler? How about WW1? We've fought 2 World Wars against Germany, yet aside from a few merchant ships and a luxury liner (that may or may not have been carrying war supplies) I can't recall Germany ever attacking the USA before we declared war on them. Isolationism worked great in the 1800's. It's not a viable Foreign Policy in the 21st Century.
McCain never said we would have to keep us this level of military activity forever. He pointed out we still have troops in Japan, Germany and Korea...
The people of Iraq have shown they want Democracy more than we do over here. (They vote in higher percentages than we do, at the risk of being shot by snipers and blown apart by roadside bombs. There "police" force suffers casualty rates several times higher than our own yet still get volunteers daily) Our casulaties, while tragic, are tactically a resounding success. Good Heavens, look at the casualty rates of the first day at Normany, the Battle of Peleliu, etc.
We've tragically lost 4,000 heroic men and women, in 5 years, liberating 27 million. In the past 5 years, there have been over 82,000 murders in the USA.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2537487
Please remember the cherry picked evidence presented while you read.
Ahh, let's not forget who "picked" that evidence. Was it not president Clinton and the leading Democrats who said Saddam was working on chemical, biological and nuclear weapons in 1998?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2537488
Which of these other countries had oil?
Umm, well, as my question leads to an anwer of only 1 country (Iraq) I'd say 100% to your question.
That said, had you asked: "which of these countries had camels, sand, date palms, and ended in the letter Q" I'd also have to say 100%...
Dang it, you figured it out! The vast Right Wing Conspiracy is to occupy every country whose name ends in a "Q".
 
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