Can I Report Bad/Illegal LFS?

nina&noah

nina&noah

Member
Today I had someone come to do a water change on my aquarium. I don't reach the bottom, so I need someone to help me. Anyways, he found a bristleworm in my live rock that was 11 inches long. We measured him, he was huge. Before that, I had a huge nitrate problem (it was coming out of the rock, long story on how we proved that). Before that, I had a huge mantis shrimp. Long story short, the guy who helps me with the maintenance on my tank is 100% sure that my live rock was obtained illegally from Biscayne Bay here in Miami. He said the area that they are collecting the rock from his heavily polluted because it isn't far from a waste treatment plant.
He said he can tell by the "presents" my sewer rock came with and by the types of corals and such that are on the rock. The more I think about it, the madder I get at my previous LFS. Is there someone that this can be reported to?
 
phelpz

phelpz

Member
If its illegal I would imagine to the police, or whoever patrols the waters there.
How would the prove the rock came from there though?
I would be pretty upset if someone sold me ---- rock.
 
groupergenius

groupergenius

Active Member
Originally Posted by nina&noah
http:///forum/post/2495984
Today I had someone come to do a water change on my aquarium. I don't reach the bottom, so I need someone to help me. Anyways, he found a bristleworm in my live rock that was 11 inches long. We measured him, he was huge. Before that, I had a huge nitrate problem (it was coming out of the rock, long story on how we proved that). Before that, I had a huge mantis shrimp. Long story short, the guy who helps me with the maintenance on my tank is 100% sure that my live rock was obtained illegally from Biscayne Bay here in Miami. He said the area that they are collecting the rock from his heavily polluted because it isn't far from a waste treatment plant.
He said he can tell by the "presents" my sewer rock came with and by the types of corals and such that are on the rock. The more I think about it, the madder I get at my previous LFS. Is there someone that this can be reported to?
The Mantis should tell the tale on where the rock came from. As far as regions anyway.
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
I think that it is unlikely to find a species that is soooooooooooo restricted that it tells you exactly where it came from. I think you would have no legal ground whatsoever, personally. There is nothing whatsoever abnormal about bristleworms, mantis shrimp, etc, and a WHOLE bunch of reasons you may have nitrate problems.
I don't think you would get far, but you could certainly try calling your local fish and game type folks.
 
groupergenius

groupergenius

Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/2496037
I think that it is unlikely to find a species that is soooooooooooo restricted that it tells you exactly where it came from. I think you would have no legal ground whatsoever, personally. There is nothing whatsoever abnormal about bristleworms, mantis shrimp, etc, and a WHOLE bunch of reasons you may have nitrate problems.
I don't think you would get far, but you could certainly try calling your local fish and game type folks.
Wow. Did I PO you or something?? I'm not talking street address. But general oceans should give some kind of clue. Atlantic, Pacific, Indian Ocean....etc.
 
hammerhed7

hammerhed7

Active Member
I would find it hard to believe your rock is terribly polluted, if the were high levels of toxins in the water where the rock came from, and you imported them into your tank the effects would be more pronounced, and nothing would survive in your tank (think about introducing a rock from a tank treated with copper).
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
A) it's entirely possible the LFS didn't know where the rock came from. Should they have known? Maybe.
B) if your tank has been established with the rock, then I wouldn't be so concerned about it. If you want to take action, that's fine, but if you've gone a while with no ill effects (it sounds like you were suprised to find out about the rock, so you obviously didn't see any outward signs of trouble), then I wouldn't worry too much.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Either your maintenance guy is incredibly knowledgable, or else he's blowing smoke.
Ask him the specific Genus species name of the Bristle Worm and Mantis. If he doesn't know, then he's blowing smoke.
Maricultered Florida Live Rock (which is the rock that is legally harvested in Florida) is notorious for Mantis Shrimp; and all quality live rock should have Bristle Worms.
As Ophiura pointed out, it would be pretty rare to be able to narrow down such a precise area based on the specific species of shrimp and worm. See if he really knows what he is talking about...
 
lexluethar

lexluethar

Active Member
I agree with journey here, bristle worms are normal and so are mantis shrimp.
Me personally, I think it is an easy way out for your maintenance guy, there are a few scenarios here:
1. - "oh ya you have high nitrates because of the rocks, not because of my shotty workmanship"
2. - maybe he doesn't know why the nitrates are going up, he can't get them under control so he blames it on something else.
3. - worse yet, maybe they aren't that bad (do you know the exact numbers and have seen him test, test yourself?) and he's selling you product to reduce your 'high nitrates'. Just some things to think about.
Me personally, i would have just been straight with you and said "you have abnormally high nitrates, water changes should take care of them, if not we will test other routes like testing for ammonia or nitrites to see if there is something dying, or possibly overstocks / lack of filtration." I wouldn't give you the bs of its because the rocks are from a bad area. Some people would kill to get the hitch hickers you got.
Just my 2 cents...
 
nina&noah

nina&noah

Member
Originally Posted by LexLuethar
http:///forum/post/2496203
I agree with journey here, bristle worms are normal and so are mantis shrimp.
Me personally, I think it is an easy way out for your maintenance guy, there are a few scenarios here:
1. - "oh ya you have high nitrates because of the rocks, not because of my shotty workmanship"
2. - maybe he doesn't know why the nitrates are going up, he can't get them under control so he blames it on something else.
3. - worse yet, maybe they aren't that bad (do you know the exact numbers and have seen him test, test yourself?) and he's selling you product to reduce your 'high nitrates'. Just some things to think about.
Me personally, i would have just been straight with you and said "you have abnormally high nitrates, water changes should take care of them, if not we will test other routes like testing for ammonia or nitrites to see if there is something dying, or possibly overstocks / lack of filtration." I wouldn't give you the bs of its because the rocks are from a bad area. Some people would kill to get the hitch hickers you got.
Just my 2 cents...

I actually contacted him because of the high nitrates. I changed LFS around the time I was having the problem. He told me there wasn't really a product that worked to reduce nitrates, that I would just have to keep doing water changes. He said that the rock absorbs pollutants like nitrate and when placed in good water it releases into the water. You have to keep doing water changes to get it out.
He used to be a manager at my current LFS for a number of years. He said that he used to see the hitch hickers a lot when collecting Florida live rock was legal. He said the small fish stores, like the one I used to go to, often go to a particular spot to collect the live rock. He said that one of two things happened.
1. It was collected illegally
2. It is extremely old rock that has been in someone else's tank.
Given that it had a mantis shrimp, he was sure it was the first one.
I do see the point that I would never be able to prove that the LFS is the one that collected the rock. Even if I could prove it came from Biscayne Bay. Oh well, it just irritates me that I was such a fool. Live and learn I guess.
 
nina&noah

nina&noah

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2496189
Maricultered Florida Live Rock (which is the rock that is legally harvested in Florida) is notorious for Mantis Shrimp; and all quality live rock should have Bristle Worms.
Really? Why would you want bristle worms? He told me they are a huge pest and they eat coral. He also told me to be careful to not touch them because they were like fiberglass. I have a bunch of them! This is the only one that we caught because he was so huge. I see them all the time.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Tampa bay saltwater and Gulf-View live rock is legally harvested in the Gulf. I would have the same critters and corals that you are describing.
If it wasn't cycled correctly it would also be a source of Nitrates for a long time.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by nina&noah
http:///forum/post/2496321
Really? Why would you want bristle worms? He told me they are a huge pest and they eat coral. He also told me to be careful to not touch them because they were like fiberglass. I have a bunch of them! This is the only one that we caught because he was so huge. I see them all the time.
This guy is providing you with lots of misinformation.
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
http:///forum/post/2496062
Wow. Did I PO you or something?? I'm not talking street address. But general oceans should give some kind of clue. Atlantic, Pacific, Indian Ocean....etc.
I was just replying???!?!?!?!?!?!
Man I can't seem to say anything right on these boards these days.
 
lexluethar

lexluethar

Active Member
Well ophiura you are just really mean. Making people post useful information and being adults - it just isn't fair! J/k :)
As for the bristle worms, this yet again shows me that this guy isn't as educated in the hobby as he makes himself out to be. Although i am by no means an expert, so please don't get that idea. Bristle worms are scavengers and will eat dead things and uneaten food. There is only one type of worm that can sting you when you touch it, it is a fireworm - and these apparently are the bad ones that can eat corals. So you need to be sure which one you have in your tank, perhaps a picture or a possible color description would help a more seasoned hobbiest identify.
My point being all bristle worms aren't bad.
 
horsin1963

horsin1963

Member
I dont really think your going to be able to prove anything but if you really want to find out if your rock came from the sewer. I can give you links on testing places that will tell you what chemicals are in the rock that are in your tank.. its not cheap to have it tested but end result will be you know who is telling you a story.. Yes rock can be tested for polluntants.. United States Geological Survey Environmental Contaminants Research Facility is a place to start.. That was my 2cents.. good luck... Brian
 
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