Catholics vs. Abortion vs. Obama's mandate...

beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I don't think the Church has issued any statements saying to its followers that it is ok for the women to get contraceptives on their own dime. They are saying that the use of contraception goes against their belief system so they should not be forced to offer it in health care plans or be forced to offer contraceptive services in their medical facilities.
There are plenty of non-Catholic federal, state, and local health care facilities that can provide contraceptives, including Planned Parenthood. That should address the needs of any woman who can not afford this type of service.
I'd like to know why you think the federal government should force non-government entities to even offer health care plans? Health care plans are a part of a benefit package offered to employees by their employer. No one forces anyone to work for someone who has a health plan that they don't like. If you don't like it, work some place else.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457186
I don't think the Church has issued any statements saying to its followers that it is ok for the women to get contraceptives on their own dime. They are saying that the use of contraception goes against their belief system so they should not be forced to offer it in health care plans or be forced to offer contraceptive services in their medical facilities.
There are plenty of non-Catholic federal, state, and local health care facilities that can provide contraceptives, including Planned Parenthood. That should address the needs of any woman who can not afford this type of service.
I'd like to know why you think the federal government should force non-government entities to even offer health care plans? Health care plans are a part of a benefit package offered to employees by their employer. No one forces anyone to work for someone who has a health plan that they don't like. If you don't like it, work some place else.
It's part of the new Obamacare Health Plan. Making it so that every working American has an opportunity to purchase affordable health insurance. If businesses don't offer it, and employees can't afford to buy insurance on their own, where do you think they go to get medical care when they are sick? The county or state-run healthcare facilities where you the taxpayer has to pay for their medical care. Wouldn't you rather see these people pay something for their health insurance, as opposed to getting those same services for free on YOUR nickel?
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
how is birth control healthcare? since when is pregnancy a disease?
i could give a better argument for condoms being covered by heathcare. they actually prevent the spread of a disease and sickness that no other medication on the market can. birth control to correct hormones can be done with other medications.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457213
It's part of the new Obamacare Health Plan. Making it so that every working American has an opportunity to purchase affordable health insurance. If businesses don't offer it, and employees can't afford to buy insurance on their own, where do you think they go to get medical care when they are sick? The county or state-run healthcare facilities where you the taxpayer has to pay for their medical care. Wouldn't you rather see these people pay something for their health insurance, as opposed to getting those same services for free on YOUR nickel?
Obama care has spiked health insurance costs and it will get worse before it gets better. Obama care completely ignored the root cause of the problem, the price.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457229
how is birth control healthcare? since when is pregnancy a disease?
i could give a better argument for condoms being covered by heathcare. they actually prevent the spread of a disease and sickness that no other medication on the market can. birth control to correct hormones can be done with other medications.
Women who have no desire to have children may consider getting pregnant a disease. Ergo, why they get an abortion. Pro Lifers despise this practice, as do the Catholics. Seems to me it makes since to allow a women the opportunity to take a pill to prevent the alternative. Kind of ironic if you ask me. Let them take the pill, it goes against their beliefs. Don't let them take the pill, get pregnant, have an abortion, and it goes against their beliefs.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457230
Obama care has spiked health insurance costs and it will get worse before it gets better. Obama care completely ignored the root cause of the problem, the price.
It hasn't been fully implemented yet. Once they start offering insurance pools where small businesses can collaborate and get lower cost plans similar to large corporations, those costs will begin coming down.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457258
It hasn't been fully implemented yet. Once they start offering insurance pools where small businesses can collaborate and get lower cost plans similar to large corporations, those costs will begin coming down.
You are increasing mandated coverages and services to more people. I think the decade they estimate before supposed improved health conditions start bringing down costs is a pipe dream. I'd say a generation at least.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457312
You are increasing mandated coverages and services to more people. I think the decade they estimate before supposed improved health conditions start bringing down costs is a pipe dream. I'd say a generation at least.
At least it would go down. My wife's premiums for our insurance have gone up 40% in the last 5 years or so. They went up 5% this year alone. Insurers and medical providers have no intentions of lowering their costs if someone or something doesn't pressure them to do it.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457331
At least it would go down. My wife's premiums for our insurance have gone up 40% in the last 5 years or so. They went up 5% this year alone. Insurers and medical providers have no intentions of lowering their costs if someone or something doesn't pressure them to do it.
Did you see your boy blunder's latest idea. Now insurance companies will have to offer the contraceptive services with no charges or co pays. I GUESS THAT WONT RAISE PREMIUMS EITHER

The best way to lower premiums is to increase competition which means letting folks buy insurance across state lines. Tort and HIPPA reform are part of the solution too but that isn't what 0bama wants. He's trying to move us toward socialized medicine pure and simple
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457386
Did you see your boy blunder's latest idea. Now insurance companies will have to offer the contraceptive services with no charges or co pays. I GUESS THAT WONT RAISE PREMIUMS EITHER

The best way to lower premiums is to increase competition which means letting folks buy insurance across state lines. Tort and HIPPA reform are part of the solution too but that isn't what 0bama wants. He's trying to move us toward socialized medicine pure and simple
At least the Catholics are happy now. Don't go tickin' off the Pope.
In some states you already have socialized medicine. Peopl who don't have insurance in Texas can simply walk into any county hospital, and get free services on the taxpayer's nickel. Doctors can't refuse care regadless if the patient can pay or not.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

Women who have no desire to have children may consider getting pregnant a disease. 
Last I checked, pregnancy is not listed at the center for disease control.
And they consider it an inconvienance...not a disease. Big difference.
If we allow random people to label anything a disease...then where does it stop? Pregnancy does not fit the legal and medical definition of Disease. Therefore, I ask again, How is this classified as healthcare?
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
well, I"m not entirely convinced that he didn't plan this all along. Piss off the catholics, by randomly mandating something. Then back off and say ok ok, I'll make your insurance company, pay for it, that I am forcing you to buy, starting in 2 years... Moron republicans celebrate the "win" While he getsexactly what he wants policy wise who cares who pays for it...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457390
At least the Catholics are happy now. Don't go tickin' off the Pope.
In some states you already have socialized medicine. Peopl who don't have insurance in Texas can simply walk into any county hospital, and get free services on the taxpayer's nickel. Doctors can't refuse care regadless if the patient can pay or not.
People in any state can walk into a county hospital which is another law we need changed. Make them prove who they are so the hospital knows who to bill. Open statute so even if it's 10 years later they can be forced to pay if they get a job or come into money somehow.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457407
well, I"m not entirely convinced that he didn't plan this all along. Piss off the catholics, by randomly mandating something. Then back off and say ok ok, I'll make your insurance company, pay for it, that I am forcing you to buy, starting in 2 years... Moron republicans celebrate the "win" While he gets exactly what he wants policy wise who cares who pays for it...
No joke! LOL
It hasn't dawned on the Pope and company yet that they will be paying higher premiums for the free birth control services being offered their employees, even though those services aren't offered in their healthcare plans. No one really thinks that the ins. company is going to eat that cost, right? LOL
You got to give this one to Obama. He got exactly what he set out for and comes out making the Catholics happy, and looking like the reasonable president able to compromise and resolve issues as they come to him.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457446
No joke! LOL
It hasn't dawned on the Pope and company yet that they will be paying higher premiums for the free birth control services being offered their employees, even though those services aren't offered in their healthcare plans. No one really thinks that the ins. company is going to eat that cost, right? LOL
You got to give this one to Obama. He got exactly what he set out for and comes out making the Catholics happy, and looking like the reasonable president able to compromise and resolve issues as they come to him.
Contraceptives should've been allowed as part of allowable prescriptions a long time ago. INsurance comapnies have been paying for ****** for years. Menawhile women have to drop $30 - $50/month to avoid getting a "9 month disease" and 18 years of grief after that. Higher premiums? Please. Insurance companies raise premiums simply because they can. What's to stop them? Mine went up 5% this year. What's my option? Dropping coverage and trying to fins it cheaper than what a large corporation can offer? Simply go without and hope neither myself or my family gets sick? Hey, wait a minute. County hospital, here I come!
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457446
No joke! LOL
It hasn't dawned on the Pope and company yet that they will be paying higher premiums for the free birth control services being offered their employees, even though those services aren't offered in their healthcare plans. No one really thinks that the ins. company is going to eat that cost, right? LOL
You got to give this one to Obama. He got exactly what he set out for and comes out making the Catholics happy, and looking like the reasonable president able to compromise and resolve issues as they come to him.
Stay tuned. Not all the Catholics took the bait They have the weekend to chew on this one.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457495
Contraceptives should've been allowed as part of allowable prescriptions a long time ago. INsurance comapnies have been paying for ****** for years. Menawhile women have to drop $30 - $50/month to avoid getting a "9 month disease" and 18 years of grief after that. Higher premiums? Please. Insurance companies raise premiums simply because they can. What's to stop them? Mine went up 5% this year. What's my option? Dropping coverage and trying to fins it cheaper than what a large corporation can offer? Simply go without and hope neither myself or my family gets sick? Hey, wait a minute. County hospital, here I come!

Funny how the health insurance companies are evil in you liberals eyes even though their profit margin is less than half of the drug companies who helped push 0bama care through.
Health insurance shouldn't pay for ****** or birth control or reproductive services. Not being able to get pregnant, get wood or making a trip to the drug store for "balloons" isn't what health insurance is for.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457521
Funny how the health insurance companies are evil in you liberals eyes even though their profit margin is less than half of the drug companies who helped push 0bama care through.
Health insurance shouldn't pay for ****** or birth control or reproductive services. Not being able to get pregnant, get wood or making a trip to the drug store for "balloons" isn't what health insurance is for.
The misconception of this argument is that this has nothing to do specifically with health care. Contraceptives are purchased through the prescription plans that usually are part of an overall health plan. Same as eye care and dental. Is getting your teeth cleaned a disease? No,it's a preventative measure to avoid getting gum disease or tooth decay. People take allergy medicine to avoid getting sinus and respiratory problems. Is an allergy to cat and dog hair a disease? Birth control is a preventative measure to allow a women to avoid getting pregnant. Pregnancy may not be a disease, buy it's defintely a health issue.
Drug companies were profitable WAY before Obamacare came to being. Health insurance companies have small profit margins?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthCare/health-insurers-post-record-profits/story?id=9818699
In April, 2009, Aetna's stock closed at $22.01. As of yesterday, their stock closed at $45.70. More than doubled in just under 3 years. Sounds like a pretty good profit margin to me considering their volumes.
 
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