Catholics vs. Abortion vs. Obama's mandate...

[darthtang aw]

The misconception of this argument is that this has nothing to do specifically with health care.  Contraceptives are purchased through the prescription plans that usually are part of an overall health plan.  Same as eye care and dental.  Is getting your teeth cleaned a disease?  No,it's a preventative measure to avoid getting gum disease or tooth decay.  People take allergy medicine to avoid getting sinus and respiratory problems.  Is an allergy to cat and dog hair a disease?  Birth control is a preventative measure to allow a women to avoid getting pregnant.  Pregnancy may not be a disease, buy it's defintely a health issue.
Drug companies were profitable WAY before Obamacare came to being.  Health insurance companies have small profit margins?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthCare/health-insurers-post-record-profits/story?id=9818699
In April, 2009, Aetna's stock closed at $22.01.  As of yesterday, their stock closed at $45.70.  More than doubled in just under 3 years.  Sounds like a pretty good profit margin to me considering their volumes.
Once again, a story that does not give the full picture.
"In the midst of a deep economic recession, America's health insurance companies increased their profits by 56 percent in 2009, a year that saw 2.7 million people lose their private coverage.
The nation's five largest for-profit insurers closed 2009 with a combined profit of $12.2 billion, according to a report by the advocacy group Health Care for American Now (HCAN). "
On average,This industry profits at a margin of about 10%. Most of this comes from stock as well. So your vaunted "56%" increase translates into a 15% profit margin. What is your business' profit margin? I know my own profit margin is greater than that.
If I had their customer base.....my total profit would be 40.0 billion. And I sell dog food...................

 

[ironeagle2006]

My freind that owns that Trucking company I was telling you about in the Other thread his 220 Company Units last year the Fleet Ran a Company Avarage of 110 thousand miles for each truck for a total of 24.2 Million Miles for the Year. His Salary is 2 Cents a Mile for all miles the trucks run for the Year COMPANY Units ONLY. So he Made Just over 480 Grand last year. Is he Hurting No he is not Are his Drivers no considering he has a Profit Sharing plan that causes him to have a WAITING LIST to get hired in. People do not leave his company for greener Pastures they Retire from his company into the Old Folks home. His normal OTR Driver last year brought home over 55K NET give you a clue what they pay there.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/40#post_3457704
The misconception of this argument is that this has nothing to do specifically with health care. Contraceptives are purchased through the prescription plans that usually are part of an overall health plan. Same as eye care and dental. Is getting your teeth cleaned a disease? No,it's a preventative measure to avoid getting gum disease or tooth decay. People take allergy medicine to avoid getting sinus and respiratory problems. Is an allergy to cat and dog hair a disease? Birth control is a preventative measure to allow a women to avoid getting pregnant. Pregnancy may not be a disease, buy it's defintely a health issue.
Drug companies were profitable WAY before Obamacare came to being. Health insurance companies have small profit margins?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthCare/health-insurers-post-record-profits/story?id=9818699
In April, 2009, Aetna's stock closed at $22.01. As of yesterday, their stock closed at $45.70. More than doubled in just under 3 years. Sounds like a pretty good profit margin to me considering their volumes.
LOL! My sister bought shares of a stock in 2009 for 1000.00. As of yesterday the stock is worth 27,000.00 and the COMPANY HAS NEVER EARNED A PROFIT. Stock prices value the assets of the company, not the profit. Aetna had a 5.88% profit margin. Pfizers was 14.85%. It don.t mater when they became profitable. They are now and you on the left dont say jack. It's like the oil companies. They make 10% or less and all you hear is GREED GREED GREED yet Apple and Microsoft are doing over 25%, in fact Microsoft is over 30% and not a word about therm. Its only bad to make a profit when the company isn't part of your agenda.
And contraceptives don't have to be purchased through a drug plan. I've bought them in a vending machine in a gas station

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3457754
Once again, a story that does not give the full picture.
"In the midst of a deep economic recession, America's health insurance companies increased their profits by 56 percent in 2009, a year that saw 2.7 million people lose their private coverage.
The nation's five largest for-profit insurers closed 2009 with a combined profit of $12.2 billion, according to a report by the advocacy group Health Care for American Now (HCAN). "
On average,This industry profits at a margin of about 10%. Most of this comes from stock as well. So your vaunted "56%" increase translates into a 15% profit margin. What is your business' profit margin? I know my own profit margin is greater than that.
If I had their customer base.....my total profit would be 40.0 billion. And I sell dog food...................
He also just happened to pick where their stock was at the depth of the crash. In December of 07 it was over 58 a share.

 

[darthtang aw]

He also just happened to pick where their stock was at the depth of the crash. In December of 07 it was over 58 a share.
 
You know, the little details...they don't matter.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006 http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3457763
My freind that owns that Trucking company I was telling you about in the Other thread his 220 Company Units last year the Fleet Ran a Company Avarage of 110 thousand miles for each truck for a total of 24.2 Million Miles for the Year. His Salary is 2 Cents a Mile for all miles the trucks run for the Year COMPANY Units ONLY. So he Made Just over 480 Grand last year. Is he Hurting No he is not Are his Drivers no considering he has a Profit Sharing plan that causes him to have a WAITING LIST to get hired in. People do not leave his company for greener Pastures they Retire from his company into the Old Folks home. His normal OTR Driver last year brought home over 55K NET give you a clue what they pay there.
Curious are his drivers home every night.........

 

[ironeagle2006]

Nope Normally home on weekends but max time out is one weekend outthen guarunteed home 3 days the next weekend

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3457765
LOL! My sister bought shares of a stock in 2009 for 1000.00. As of yesterday the stock is worth 27,000.00 and the COMPANY HAS NEVER EARNED A PROFIT. Stock prices value the assets of the company, not the profit. Aetna had a 5.88% profit margin. Pfizers was 14.85%. It don.t mater when they became profitable. They are now and you on the left dont say jack. It's like the oil companies. They make 10% or less and all you hear is GREED GREED GREED yet Apple and Microsoft are doing over 25%, in fact Microsoft is over 30% and not a word about therm. Its only bad to make a profit when the company isn't part of your agenda.
And contraceptives don't have to be purchased through a drug plan. I've bought them in a vending machine in a gas station
People don't need computers to stay healthy or get around in their daily lives. Microsoft and Apple don't gouge ther customers to make a profit. When'e the last time you saw Apple increase the price of an IPad or IPhone over 20% in just 2 years? Did you pay more for your Windows 7 than you did for your Windows XP? Healthcare and oil are commdoties that Americans can't do without for survival. Yea, you can say let them walk or buy a horse, let them go holistic for medical treatment. But could you survive without these two necessities?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3457754
Once again, a story that does not give the full picture.
"In the midst of a deep economic recession, America's health insurance companies increased their profits by 56 percent in 2009, a year that saw 2.7 million people lose their private coverage.
The nation's five largest for-profit insurers closed 2009 with a combined profit of $12.2 billion, according to a report by the advocacy group Health Care for American Now (HCAN). "
On average,This industry profits at a margin of about 10%. Most of this comes from stock as well. So your vaunted "56%" increase translates into a 15% profit margin. What is your business' profit margin? I know my own profit margin is greater than that.
If I had their customer base.....my total profit would be 40.0 billion. And I sell dog food...................
Right Darth. And you said the same thing about "What, no stories to back up your claims?" when I stated that you could by firearms in the classified. The facts are out there that refute your arguments. Like I told you, try Google. It's a wonderful fact-finding tool.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3457924
Right Darth. And you said the same thing about "What, no stories to back up your claims?" when I stated that you could by firearms in the classified. The facts are out there that refute your arguments. Like I told you, try Google. It's a wonderful fact-finding tool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3457922
People don't need computers to stay healthy or get around in their daily lives. Microsoft and Apple don't gouge ther customers to make a profit. When'e the last time you saw Apple increase the price of an IPad or IPhone over 20% in just 2 years? Did you pay more for your Windows 7 than you did for your Windows XP? Healthcare and oil are commdoties that Americans can't do without for survival. Yea, you can say let them walk or buy a horse, let them go holistic for medical treatment. But could you survive without these two necessities?
LOL! If they aren't gouging how do they make a 25 to 30% profit while the evil gouging oil and insurance companies make less than 10%
That don't don't hunt. Milk and other food products have gone up more than gas. You libs going after Archer Daniels?

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3457922
People don't need computers to stay healthy or get around in their daily lives. Microsoft and Apple don't gouge ther customers to make a profit. When'e the last time you saw Apple increase the price of an IPad or IPhone over 20% in just 2 years? Did you pay more for your Windows 7 than you did for your Windows XP? Healthcare and oil are commdoties that Americans can't do without for survival. Yea, you can say let them walk or buy a horse, let them go holistic for medical treatment. But could you survive without these two necessities?
This is the most either ignorant or most blatant load of bull you've EVER said. ESPECIALLY with Apple.
For others who don't know, Apple is probably the only electronics company who actually has the competitive advantage over the retailers. For instance, when the original iphone came out. They didn't offer any discount on the phone. They charged 500 bucks for it. And you paid it and signed a 2 year contract... Every other cell phone company releases a phone you sign a 2 year contract, and get the phone at a significant discount.
Their computers iPads, (at the time) iPods etc. are sold under a very different profit model than anyone else. Apple makes the profit, the retailer does not. When I worked at radiocrap, their profit on a 300 dollar iPod was 5 bucks. Literally. We bought them at 295 and sold em for 299.99. We are talking 2-3% profit margins. Apple makes them for much much less and reports a 35-40% gross margin on a regular basis. To compare that to say tell, which runs a 17--20% margin. Every other piece of electronics there is a small margin for the manufacturer as well as the retailer...
So while I have no issue with Apple making money, that is what they're there for. To imply that apple somehow is an ethical company while oil companies are not. Because Apple doesn't make the money that oil companies make, is well a blatant load of bull.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3457965
LOL! If they aren't gouging how do they make a 25 to 30% profit while the evil gouging oil and insurance companies make less than 10%
That don't don't hunt. Milk and other food products have gone up more than gas. You libs going after Archer Daniels?
Where do you get 10%?
http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/28/news/companies/exxon_mobil_earnings/index.htm
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/31/business/la-fi-chevron-20100731
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2012/02/02/417410/shell-produces-less-oil-but-2011-profits-soar-31-billion/
I love how the NeoCons love to support excess capitalism. I guess you enjoy $3.30 - $4.00 a gallon for gas. I mean, we don't want those poor little oil companies to suffer and only make a 10% profit. Let them charge as much as they want. Don't come crying when you have to decide whether you want to fill up your gas guzzler, or buy that $5.00 gallon of milk. Who cares you have to mortgage your home when a family member has a tragic accident, or contracts a terminal disease like some form of cancer. I just had a co-worker recently die at the ripe old age of 38 due to Hodgkin's Lymphoma. He fought it for two years, and I spoke with his brother afterwards who told me his radiation and chemo treatments, hospice care, in-patient and out-patient hospital care cost came close to $550K after it was all said and done. Naw, insurance and medical industries don't make a profit...

 

[darthtang aw]

Right Darth.  And you said the same thing about "What, no stories to back up your claims?" when I stated that you could by firearms in the classified.  The facts are out there that refute your arguments.  Like I told you, try Google.  It's a wonderful fact-finding tool.
 
I didn't say no stories to back up your claims. I asked for links to these classifieds. Most of what you gave me were off a known gun sales site. Which is tracked and monitored by the fed. . The other links, were a classified, one was an antique replica gun, the other a standard hunting rifle, and the other was a bad link. Ok, YOU gave me 3 classified links. Your initial claim was craigslist, which was wrong. The story you linked, in know way offered any info as to specific sites. That was my main complaint.
I googled, average average heath insurance profit. For 2008 it came up with 10.6% profit margin, which most of which came from stocks. As reported by forbes top 1000.
Gas prices have never bothered me. But here you are screaming excess capitalism......It costs me more to smoke, than it does to drive. And the direct cost of both is due to over taxation and over reaching of our government, in its vain attempts to save us from ourselves. The government makes 4-5 dollars per pack profit on cigarettes. And they do nothing to earn that. But I don't complain about that profit gouging. Oh yeah, you are going to say that is my choice. Just like it is your choice to drive. Just like it is your choice to have sex....which is what the original point of this discussion was.
Bottomline....it is your choice for most of this that is being discussed. Last I checked, no one died from not having sex. birth control is not heathcare. It is an excuse for poor judgement. Planned parenthood gives out condoms for free...That I support...because it actually reduces disease spread...unlike birth control.

 

[darthtang aw]

Where do you get 10%?
http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/28/news/companies/exxon_mobil_earnings/index.htm
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/31/business/la-fi-chevron-20100731
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2012/02/02/417410/shell-produces-less-oil-but-2011-profits-soar-31-billion/
I love how the NeoCons love to support excess capitalism.  I guess you enjoy $3.30 - $4.00 a gallon for gas.  I mean, we don't want those poor little oil companies to suffer and only make a 10% profit.  Let them charge as much as they want.  Don't come crying when you have to decide whether you want to fill up your gas guzzler, or buy that $5.00 gallon of milk.  Who cares you have to mortgage your home when a family member has a tragic accident, or contracts a terminal disease like some form of cancer.  I just had a co-worker recently die at the ripe old age of 38 due to Hodgkin's Lymphoma.  He fought it for two years, and I spoke with his brother afterwards who told me his radiation and chemo treatments, hospice care, in-patient and out-patient hospital care cost came close to $550K after it was all said and done.  Naw, insurance and medical industries don't make a profit...
None of those stories counter reef's point. Let me give the business man some basic math.
If you make a profit of 10%. and the following year your profits increase 50%. That means your profit margin is only 15% still. Get it yet. You read these stories, and they sensational the profit increase percentage, or the total dollar value. What you don't think about or see, because you are so agenda and anger driven about profit, is how much they had to spend to make that money. Spending 310 billion to make 31 billion....That is a crap margin.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3458038
Where do you get 10%?
http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/28/news/companies/exxon_mobil_earnings/index.htm
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/31/business/la-fi-chevron-20100731
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2012/02/02/417410/shell-produces-less-oil-but-2011-profits-soar-31-billion/
I love how the NeoCons love to support excess capitalism. I guess you enjoy $3.30 - $4.00 a gallon for gas. I mean, we don't want those poor little oil companies to suffer and only make a 10% profit. Let them charge as much as they want. Don't come crying when you have to decide whether you want to fill up your gas guzzler, or buy that $5.00 gallon of milk. Who cares you have to mortgage your home when a family member has a tragic accident, or contracts a terminal disease like some form of cancer. I just had a co-worker recently die at the ripe old age of 38 due to Hodgkin's Lymphoma. He fought it for two years, and I spoke with his brother afterwards who told me his radiation and chemo treatments, hospice care, in-patient and out-patient hospital care cost came close to $550K after it was all said and done. Naw, insurance and medical industries don't make a profit...
I love how you left wingers try to change the subject when you don't have a leg to stand on. So Exxon had their profit go up 41%. They are still only making 10% now. That is in no way out of line. This just reinforces my point that the left only opposes profit when it isn't going to fund their agenda.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3458096
None of those stories counter reef's point. Let me give the business man some basic math.
If you make a profit of 10%. and the following year your profits increase 50%. That means your profit margin is only 15% still. Get it yet. You read these stories, and they sensational the profit increase percentage, or the total dollar value. What you don't think about or see, because you are so agenda and anger driven about profit, is how much they had to spend to make that money. Spending 310 billion to make 31 billion....That is a crap margin.
You can't compare the margins of a multi-billion dollar company to some Mom and Pop store down the street. It also has to do with total revenues, and percentage of increase from previous years. Exxon made over $41 billion last year, a 35% increase from the previous year. "For the full year of 2010 ExxonMobil reported $30.5 billion in earnings (excluding special items), a dramatic increase of 57% from full year 2009 results." At the end of 2011, their total revenues were 452,926 billion. Their total gross profits were 118,894 billion. This was an increase of 26.9% in revenues earned in 2010. You need a degree in Economics to break down this supposed $310 billion in spending. Looking at their finanacial sheet, they had $302 biilion in liabilities AND equities.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=XOM:US&dataset=balanceSheet&period=A&currency=native

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3458092
I didn't say no stories to back up your claims. I asked for links to these classifieds. Most of what you gave me were off a known gun sales site. Which is tracked and monitored by the fed. . The other links, were a classified, one was an antique replica gun, the other a standard hunting rifle, and the other was a bad link. Ok, YOU gave me 3 classified links. Your initial claim was craigslist, which was wrong. The story you linked, in know way offered any info as to specific sites. That was my main complaint.
I googled, average average heath insurance profit. For 2008 it came up with 10.6% profit margin, which most of which came from stocks. As reported by forbes top 1000.
Gas prices have never bothered me. But here you are screaming excess capitalism......It costs me more to smoke, than it does to drive. And the direct cost of both is due to over taxation and over reaching of our government, in its vain attempts to save us from ourselves. The government makes 4-5 dollars per pack profit on cigarettes. And they do nothing to earn that. But I don't complain about that profit gouging. Oh yeah, you are going to say that is my choice. Just like it is your choice to drive. Just like it is your choice to have sex....which is what the original point of this discussion was.
Bottomline....it is your choice for most of this that is being discussed. Last I checked, no one died from not having sex. birth control is not heathcare. It is an excuse for poor judgement. Planned parenthood gives out condoms for free...That I support...because it actually reduces disease spread...unlike birth control.
The "bad link" was the sale of an AK-47. These were classifieds of ONE city in the State of Texas. I'm not going to do your research of the THOUSANDS of other towns and cities across the nation that have the same type of sales in their local papers. You don't have to believe it. Keep your beer-goggle glasses on and keep sucking those cancer sticks.
No ne ever said birth control is healthcare. It's PREVENTATIVE MEDICINE. Just like the other preventative medicines that people take every day that are paid by healthcare insurance plans as part of their prescription plans. Not to mention, contraceptives are used for more than just preventing pregnancy. Here's a short list of some alternative uses:
http://www.youngwomenshealth.org/med-uses-ocp.html
Do you consider any of those "healthcare"?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390368/catholics-vs-abortion-vs-obamas-mandate/60#post_3458341
You can't compare the margins of a multi-billion dollar company to some Mom and Pop store down the street. It also has to do with total revenues, and percentage of increase from previous years. Exxon made over $41 billion last year, a 35% increase from the previous year. "For the full year of 2010 ExxonMobil reported $30.5 billion in earnings (excluding special items), a dramatic increase of 57% from full year 2009 results." At the end of 2011, their total revenues were 452,926 billion. Their total gross profits were 118,894 billion. This was an increase of 26.9% in revenues earned in 2010. You need a degree in Economics to break down this supposed $310 billion in spending. Looking at their finanacial sheet, they had $302 biilion in liabilities AND equities.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=XOM:US&dataset=balanceSheet&period=A&currency=native
LOL! right. So someone who spends Billions to produce the goods they sell aren't entitled to a higher dollar profit than someone who spends Millions? How egalitarian of you

 

[darthtang aw]

LOL! right. So someone who spends Billions to produce the goods they sell aren't entitled to a higher dollar profit than someone who spends Millions? How egalitarian of you
and he runs a business..........i wonder if he realizes what happens with those profits.

 

[darthtang aw]

The "bad link" was the sale of an AK-47.  These were classifieds of ONE city in the State of Texas.  I'm not going to do your research of the THOUSANDS of other towns and cities across the nation that have the same type of sales in their local papers.  You don't have to believe it.  Keep your beer-goggle glasses on and keep sucking those cancer sticks.
No ne ever said birth control is healthcare.  It's PREVENTATIVE MEDICINE.  Just like the other preventative medicines that people take every day that are paid by healthcare insurance plans as part of their prescription plans.  Not to mention, contraceptives are used for more than just preventing pregnancy.  Here's a short list of some alternative uses:
http://www.youngwomenshealth.org/med-uses-ocp.html
Do you consider any of those "healthcare"?
are you telling me birth control pills are the only option for treating rhose medical issues?
birth control is preventative medicine? what legally defined disease does it prevent that no other preventative medicine can?