Concealed Carry

deltablack22

Active Member
Anyone on here carry concealed? I've been doing a little bit of shopping around lately and fell in love with Springfields XD-9 subcompact. Personally it fits the bill perfectly for what I'm looking for... I'm mainly looking for something my wife can have while I'm gone, but versitile for a concealed carry as well. I think my alternate is Sig's single stack .45 but I dont want too much gun if my wife is going to be using it as well.
Any thoughts?
 

thirty5

Member
First have to ask what state you are in? I am in NJ and unless you are in some sort of lawenforcement you will almost NEVER get a carry permit.
I personally have the Sig P239 in a 40 cal. There is no reason for a 45 cal. Way too much gun, and in a compact the kick is big.
I personally feel then wen buying an auto there is no comparison to a Sig. Top of the line IMO.
Just remember the smaller the gun the harder it is too shoot. I have a 5 shot S&W airlite, bullets weigh almost as much as the gun does, but wow what a powerful recoil, but then again shootin 38 cal +p's.
Don't take this the wrong way. But I am totally against carry permits, ESPECIALLY CONCEALED. Bad enough people can drive deadly weapons, for people to be able to carry one concealed is troublesome for me. Just cause you can shoot a gun does not mean you should be able to carry one. I personally go through a lot of training on how to handle a weapon and when to use and when not to use. It is a huge responsibility to carry a gun. God forbid you get into the situation where you "might" have to use it, and you decide to and you really should not have. Then what happens, huge lawsuit, possibly lose your house and everthing that you have. Even if you are right in shooting and then you miss and hit an innocent then wow....
 

jmick

Active Member
Why do you feel the need to carry a concealed weapon? Is you life in that much danger? I am not anti gun or against people having weapons but carring one on your person in public places is troublesome to me. Are you hoping for the situation where you are able to use it, is that the need to carry it with you? Or do you feel some sort of inadequacy?
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Maybe he lives in D.C or baltimore where the Musrder total is over 150 peeople killed so far this year. (I wonder how that stacks up against the American lives lost in Iraq this year now that I think about. Sorry, I am rambling.
 

jmick

Active Member
I've spent time in both cities and the majority of the violent crime is in certain areas where the average person should not be...unless they are searching for specific "urban goods."
 

mimzy

Active Member
DeltaBlack, my DH and I have also been searching for the perfect cc pieces - he is really in love w/ various things such as the 1911 - but he's torn atm between that and a revolver.
As for me, I have tiny hands, and the mag-releases on almost EVERY handgun is a huge reach for me and I'd need both hands to change mags. Not to mention the fact that most guns make it nearly impossible for people w/out man-hands to open the slide release. I've found the best gun for me as far as ergonomics goes is the LadySmith. It's a little pricey, but you can find plenty of them used, it fits my hands perfectly, and is tactically the best choice for me - and trust me, I've looked.
You might want to consider getting a piece for you and another piece for your wife - after all, men and women are not made the same, I don't think their means of self-defense should be either
 

thirty5

Member
I see that this thread if gets popular can definately get heated. I agree with some of the other statements. There is no reason that people should be carrying a gun. If you look at the stats, any murders or crimes with guns are not against someone just walking down the street. People are murdered usually for a reason.
And if you think that carrying a gun will really defend you then your head is in the clouds. If a crime is going to be committed against you then you most likely will not be able to get your weapon out before you are attacked. And if you think that you can just shoot someone cause they stold your purse you are MISTAKEN. The rule of thumb is that "You need to see deadly force to use deadly force". Or you have to be able to explain to a normal person that you felt that your life was in jepoardy.
I am going to try and find a video clip that shows how fast a person can cover 21 feet and be able to attack a police officer who is trained. And with a police officer the weapon is out in the open and easily accessible to the officer. This video make me cringe cause every officer gets touched before they get any shots off. I personally have the fastest draw in my department also using a triple threat holster (which means you have to do 3 different things to get the gun out) and i am still worried if i am able to get my gun out fast enough.
Sorry for the rant, it just makes me wonder why people would really want to carry a gun. One more thought and i will stop ranting.
You are carrying off concealed weapon..... For some reason you come across someone that scares you, say you are in a parking lot and you just get scared and you take the gun out.... Now i am walking in the lot OFFDUTY and carrying a weapon. Now i am the one that startled you by just being there, now you turn and point the gun at me. Do you know what is goin to happen next, BY INSTINCT! i am going to draw and fire without much though. GUN pointed at me is DEADLY FORCE, so i am going to return with DEADLY FORCE. Just meerly pointing a gun at someone is considered deadly force, even if it is unloaded.
I can go on and on and on about this, so i will stop now! Thanks for reading my RANT>
 

digitydash

Active Member
I feel it is your rite to bare arms.Not everyone with a concealed permit just points guns at people that why you go to a class befor geting it so you know the law.I had one befor I got in trouble and when I am done with my probation in a year I will have one again.If you were walking up fast on me I wouldnt pull it out till u invaded my space but I would have my hand on it.It would be your fault you didn't say who you where befor it came to that point.I mainly carry mine traveling in a car when I would go out of town o vacation,or I am out at night time.I don't go out looking to shoot anyone haven't had to nor do I hope I ever have to but if it my life or his I am choosing his
 

tangman99

Active Member
It's a debate that people carry to extremes each way. I carried a Concealed weapon when I was in law enforcement and for a few years after I got out because I had some real threats based on some of the work I did. I have not carried a CW in over 10 years now. I'm not for or against it, I just don't feel the need any longer and I have other ways of defending myself.
In Florida, getting a concealed weapons permit is super easy. It has been for over 15 years now. I was in law enforcement when it became and option and we went through all the situation of how were things going to change when anyone could carry a weapon. All the trigger happy scenerios never happened. It never really changed a thing.
Thirty5, I am very familiar with the videos you are referring to. Those are law enforcement training videos with the guy wearing the ninja garb that shows how fast someone with a knife can come in and stab you before you can draw a holstered weapon or unholstered. It is scary.
One other statistic to keep in mind is that most criminals that carry a weapon have no idea or skill in how to use it. It's not like in the movies where they come in with a .45 in each hand and are dropping a person with every shot. If I remember correctly, over 75% of all shots fired by a criminal never even come close to hitting their target.
If you do carry a concealed weapon, I will give you one piece of good advice that I always offered people who wanted to carry concealed weapons when I taught other self defense courses. "If you are walking across a parking lot and someone jumps out and points a gun at you (or even a knife) and asks for you wallet, slowly reach around behind your back where your handgun is in your pancake holster in your waist band, let your hand slide down it to your back pocket, removed your wallet and hand it to him."
The decision to carry a concealed weapon is a personal one. With this decision comes a lot of responsibility. If you are going to carry, make sure you are absolutely committed to two things.
1. That you have had qualified training in how to operate and use your weapon. You would be surprised how hard it is to function in a high stress situation when you feel your life is in danger. If you train, it becomes an automated process. When under extreme stress or fear, you will revert to your training. If you didn't train, you will freeze.
2. Never (and I mean never) pull a gun unless you are committed to using it. That sound simple in itself, but it's not an easy decision to make. Go through some shoot, don't shoot drills and you will see what I mean. And that is from a law enforcement perspective where you have full authority behind you. Being a citizen makes every situation unique.
Good luck and make the decision that is right for you. I'm getting off my soapbox now.
 

nietzsche

Active Member

Originally Posted by digitydash
I feel it is your rite to bare arms.Not everyone with a concealed permit just points guns at people that why you go to a class befor geting it so you know the law.I had one befor I got in trouble and when I am done with my probation in a year I will have one again.If you were walking up fast on me I wouldnt pull it out till u invaded my space but I would have my hand on it.It would be your fault you didn't say who you where befor it came to that point
.I mainly carry mine traveling in a car when I would go out of town o vacation,or I am out at night time.I don't go out looking to shoot anyone haven't had to nor do I hope I ever have to but if it my life or his I am choosing his
what if someone had a condition in which they acted differently when they missed their medication, and in a confused state they ran up to you without telling you anything and tried to grab you for help. i think theres a lot of situations in which you're not going to really know what to do and might panic and kill someone. like other people said, if someone already planned on attacking you there's little chance youre going to be able to pull your weapon to defend yourself
 

thirty5

Member
I can sorta understand that people want to protect themselves. But to just carry a gun cause they want to is the problem. And again have to know when to shoot and when you can't shoot. And you say that people goto classes, well that is a bunch of bull. And also qualifying people at a local gun shop is also ridiculous.
You can say i am against concealed carry unless you have the training and knowledge to do so properly and more importantly "SAFELY!".
 

thirty5

Member
Originally Posted by TangMan99
It's a debate that people carry to extremes each way. I carried a Concealed weapon when I was in law enforcement and for a few years after I got out because I had some real threats based on some of the work I did. I have not carried a CW in over 10 years now. I'm not for or against it, I just don't feel the need any longer and I have other ways of defending myself.
In Florida, getting a concealed weapons permit is super easy. It has been for over 15 years now. I was in law enforcement when it became and option and we went through all the situation of how were things going to change when anyone could carry a weapon. All the trigger happy scenerios never happened. It never really changed a thing.
Thirty5, I am very familiar with the videos you are referring to. Those are law enforcement training videos with the guy wearing the ninja garb that shows how fast someone with a knife can come in and stab you before you can draw a holstered weapon or unholstered. It is scary.
One other statistic to keep in mind is that most criminals that carry a weapon have no idea or skill in how to use it. It's not like in the movies where they come in with a .45 in each hand and are dropping a person with every shot. If I remember correctly, over 75% of all shots fired by a criminal never even come close to hitting their target.
If you do carry a concealed weapon, I will give you one piece of good advice that I always offered people who wanted to carry concealed weapons when I taught other self defense courses. "If you are walking across a parking lot and someone jumps out and points a gun at you (or even a knife) and asks for you wallet, slowly reach around behind your back where your handgun is in your pancake holster in your waist band, let your hand slide down it to your back pocket, removed your wallet and hand it to him."
The decision to carry a concealed weapon is a personal one. With this decision comes a lot of responsibility. If you are going to carry, make sure you are absolutely committed to two things.
1. That you have had qualified training in how to operate and use your weapon. You would be surprised how hard it is to function in a high stress situation when you feel your life is in danger. If you train, it becomes an automated process. When under extreme stress or fear, you will revert to your training. If you didn't train, you will freeze.
2. Never (and I mean never) pull a gun unless you are committed to using it. That sound simple in itself, but it's not an easy decision to make. Go through some shoot, don't shoot drills and you will see what I mean. And that is from a law enforcement perspective where you have full authority behind you. Being a citizen makes every situation unique.
Good luck and make the decision that is right for you. I'm getting off my soapbox now.
We basically have the same thoughts. And yes that is the video that i am talking about. Guns are not the answer most of the time. I totally agree that if you were going to be mugged just give it up. Even worse, if you are with your family and you pull a gun to defend yourself and then your family gets hurt. I tell my family all the time and i have taught my kids this one thing. "Yes daddy is a police officer, but you dont need to tell anyone" The reason for that is that "most" kids like the cops and children of cops like to tell people. But in the danger situation it does not help. I personally do carry off duty ALL THE TIME. But again i am trained to carry a weapon. I am in the detective buruea so i carry my gun on duty the same way as off duty, so it is a norm for me.
So I know that people want to protect themselves and their families, but you having a gun can actually make it worse. I would never even think of shooting my weapon with my family near (unless not other choice). Have also told my wife many times, that if it hits the fan and I HAVE TO ACT then she should take the kids and run and let me do my job.
 

mimzy

Active Member
ohmigawd, you guys - he asked for information about good handguns, not dissertations on why he should or should not carry them.
 

tangman99

Active Member
Originally Posted by thirty5
I can sorta understand that people want to protect themselves. But to just carry a gun cause they want to is the problem. And again have to know when to shoot and when you can't shoot. And you say that people goto classes, well that is a bunch of bull. And also qualifying people at a local gun shop is also ridiculous.
You can say i am against concealed carry unless you have the training a knowledge to do so properly.
You are absolutely correct. Most people go to gun shop or gunshow, do the required class which is a joke and nothing more. You would not believe the number of people I talked with that carried concealed weapons that never fired them. They were scared of them and said they could use them when needed as all you had to do was point and shoot.

True story and one other thing to consider. When I was at a the firing range with a good friend of mine, his wife was there and showed me her little .380 auto she carried in her purse. She said she had fired it a few time and felt comfortable with it. I told her I wanted her to try something. I told her to turn and run as fast as she could for about 100 feet, come back and when I screamed NOW!, pull her gun out of her purse and shoot a target that was 15 feet away. She looked at me funny so I explained. The wind sprint will somewhat simulate the situation your body will be in if you are in that situation. Not accurately, but much better than calmly standing on a firing line and squeezing off a few rounds. She turned, ran came back and a soon as she stopped I screamed NOW! way before she was expecting it. She fumbled in her purse for her gun, almost dropped it, pointed it down range and tried to fire it without a round in the chamber which doesn't work with a single action automatic. She then pulled the slide back to load a round and out of habit, put the safety on so it would not fire. When she figured that out, she turned the safety off and emptied the magazine in rapid succession. Only one hit the target in what would have been the arm. From the time she pulled the gun, I estimated it took her 15 to 20 seconds to get the first shot off of which every round but one missed and that one would not have been a lethal or even stopping.
This really upset her, and I apologized but I told her that I would rather her learn this under this circumstance than wait until a real situation occurred and something similar to this happens. I ask you to really think about this if you plan on carrying.
 

tangman99

Active Member
Originally Posted by Mimzy
ohmigawd, you guys - he asked for information about good handguns, not dissertations on why he should or should not carry them.

Yeah Mimzy, you are right and I thought about that. But it's still one of those questions that you want to make sure people understand that's theirs more to the question than just what is a good weapon and he did specifically mention that it is for concealment. It's like when someone asks me what is the best sportbike to buy. My first question is can you ride and how much experience do you have. I never made any comments or preached about whether he should carry or not carry (or at least I don't think I did) but rather if you are going to carry, there are a lot of things to consider.

Thirty5,
Explains our like attitudes. Seems like we had a lot in common and experiences not common to someone outside of our line of work. But like I've mentioned. I'm not against it. I just think more thought and requirements should go into the process.
 

shogun323

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
Why do you feel the need to carry a concealed weapon? Is you life in that much danger?
Why do you wear a seatbelt?
 

b bauer

Member
Originally Posted by Mimzy
ohmigawd, you guys - he asked for information about good handguns, not dissertations on why he should or should not carry them.

right on
this person might have training but just "rant" why he should not have a cc.he asked about a pistol nothing else.it's like if he asked about a ph ? and you give an answer about a car
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Unfortunately Illinois dosent see it that way
"YOU CAN PRY MY GUN OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HAND"
Folded up should fit into purse just fine

Type: Single Action automatic (machine) pistol
Calibers: 9x19mm Luger/Parabellum/NATO
Weight unloaded: 1170 g
Length: 240 mm
Barrel length: 156 mm (with compensator)
Magazine capacity: 20 rounds standard
"For when you need to get alot of lead down range fast"
 

shogun323

Active Member
To answer your original question Delta the XD-9 is a fantastic conceal carry gun. I have the subcompact XD-9 in the 2 tone. It's my favorite. It is amazing to shoot and the XD line have very little recoil. Even the 45.
I usually carry my Kahr PM40. It carries 6 in the clip (with the extended mag) and 1 in the chamber. It is a bit smaller than the XD and kicks like a mule. I havent shot the PM9 but it is the same size as the PM40 but shoots a 9mm bullet.
I also have the Keltec 380 which I call the noisy cricket. It is like trying to hold onto a fireball when you shoot it so accuracy is out the window.
The XD9 sub is a great choice though!!
 

tangman99

Active Member
Originally Posted by DeltaBlack22
Anyone on here carry concealed? I've been doing a little bit of shopping around lately and fell in love with Springfields XD-9 subcompact. Personally it fits the bill perfectly for what I'm looking for... I'm mainly looking for something my wife can have while I'm gone, but versitile for a concealed carry as well. I think my alternate is Sig's single stack .45 but I dont want too much gun if my wife is going to be using it as well.
Any thoughts?
Hi Deltablack,
I apologize if I took (or continued) your thread in the wrong direction. In answer to your question, Sigs are awesome when it comes to automatics. I personally loved the Glocks but was never fond of the dove-tail safety.
One other consideration you may want to think about if you are looking for something for your wife is if an automatic is the best choice? I don't know her experience with weapons, but if she is not an avid firearms person and used to shooting all types of weapons, an automatic add degrees of complication. A revolver has some great advantages. The cylinder makes it wider so carrying it in the waist is not preferred but I don't think your wife would carry it that way.
A revolver is almost 100% reliable for firing (they don't jam), you don't have to pull a slide which can be difficult and no mechanical safeties to worry about. They are truely the point and shoot solution mechanically. Hitting the target is another thing though.
Good Luck and again sorry for not answering your question. My other comments were not directed specifically at you.
 
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