Concealed Carry

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by TangMan99
But explaining holes in the back may not be that easy.
Sure it is
"Yep officer, I yelled stop I have a gun hoping he would at least throw my wallet down and he looked over his shoulder as he was running and started to point the gun back in my direction. Right then I knew I screwed up and put my life in danger and should have just let him run with the wallet"

 

[thirty5]

Originally Posted by reefraff
You anti-gunners don't seem to understand the simplistic beauty of concealed carry laws. The crooks have no clue who has a gun. That is why concealed carry is so much better than open carry laws. Just the knowledge that there is a chance of an armed confrontation is enough to discourage some from taking that particular route.
While I don't carry a gun on my person I do carry one in my vehicle. If someone robbed me with a gun I would think nothing of executing them as they ran away if I had a safe and clear shot. Just need to have the right story for the cops and a clean record. You put my life in danger by pointing a gun at me you forfit your right to breath air.

Well i was the first to take this thread in the direction that it went. But you can see that the first thing that i did was to say which gun i thought was best for CC. But then after that i started to rant.
Reefraff
Im sorry to say that exactly what you said is the reason that the CC laws are too lax. I would like to see it happen where you "execute" someone by shooting them in the back. Responsible people should have guns. Once the threat is gone then there is no reason for you to shoot. The point of having a gun is for self protection. Once he leaves then, its over, you are not the judge nor the executioner at this time.
I am not saying that people should get away with it. And if you were fast enough to draw and shoot him while he was at the window then go for it.
I did say earlier that i am not totally against CC. But well trained and responsible People should Carry.

 

[thirty5]

Originally Posted by DeltaBlack22
This is a fantanstic point that I have thought about. I was also considering getting her a S&W .38 J frame but figure with my help the semiauto shouldnt be a fantastic jump. I'm pretty well versed in firearms and dont see training her to feel comfortable on a semiauto that big of a jump. Its all about muscle memory... I figure I'll take her out on my grandfathers land and make it a day of gun drills...

Delta, i have a S&W .38 5 shot. It is a tough shot. Aiming is uncomfortable seems like you have to point the gun down to aim.
I would say that if you are going to get her one, go for the Sig 239 .40

 

[thirty5]

Originally Posted by reefraff
If someone breaks into your house you use 2 shots. First one in the center of the chest and the second into the wall just above a window or door. The header will stop the bullet and you get to tell the cops "I fired a warning shot".

Reef LOL
Not really sure if you are serious about that. But you have to be careful. Cause here in NJ you cant just shoot someone for breaking into your house. Once again you need see deadly force to use deadly force.
There is no such thing as a warning shot.

 

[seasalt101]

i'm glad i'm in texas if you feel endangerd or threatened here you can shoot if someone breaks in you can shoot (break-in tools are weapons) and the law here allows you to protect yourself and property...tobin

 

[thirty5]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
i'm glad i'm in texas if you feel endangerd or threatened here you can shoot if someone breaks in you can shoot (break-in tools are weapons) and the law here allows you to protect yourself and property...tobin

Again it all has to come down to that you have to be able to convince the jurors that you felt that your life was in danger.

 

[nietzsche]

have many of you been mugged or anything? ive heard horror stories from my gf where the location she goes to school that when kids leave the campus they usually get mugged by 6 small kids or somethign similar to that. i always tell her to be careful and walk with a group of people at night if she stays up late at school finishing up a project. she carries mace with her that was given to her by her sister's husband who worked in NYPD but now works in CT, but she hasnt had to use it.
i think if anyone really expected something they MIGHT be able to do something, but in all reality i doubt it. besides, whats a smart thing to do? pull out your gun and shoot 6 underage kids for trying to steal your wallet or gold watch? what's more important, your gold watch or your life? give up the goods. what if those 6 kids have guns too? whos life is now in danger? not only yours but the people around you from the crossfire. if someone is going to attack you its because they know damn well they have a higher chance of being the victor, unless youre some expert karate kid lol. but yeah
in all due honesty, if your life is going to end it will and it was your time. if this is about wanting to live, then expect death in many places with many different faces; car accident, falling downstairs by accident, etc.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by thirty5
Well i was the first to take this thread in the direction that it went. But you can see that the first thing that i did was to say which gun i thought was best for CC. But then after that i started to rant.
Reefraff
Im sorry to say that exactly what you said is the reason that the CC laws are too lax. I would like to see it happen where you "execute" someone by shooting them in the back. Responsible people should have guns. Once the threat is gone then there is no reason for you to shoot. The point of having a gun is for self protection. Once he leaves then, its over, you are not the judge nor the executioner at this time.
I am not saying that people should get away with it. And if you were fast enough to draw and shoot him while he was at the window then go for it.
I did say earlier that i am not totally against CC. But well trained and responsible People should Carry.
Ahhh, so in your world you let the thug keep going until an innocent person finally gets shot and maybe killed. NOBODY will put a gun in my face (other than a cop with a legit reason) and get away with it if I can help it. Remember in my original post I mention I would execute them IF I HAD A SAFE AND CLEAR SHOT.

 

[smartorl]

The point here that someone doesn't want to get a gun "to kill someone", it is that he is looking for a handgun that he can keep around his home that can also double as a conceled should he choose to do so.
I have had my concealed permit for close to fifteen years. I have never carried a concealed weapon but I like having the ability to do so lawfully, should I decide to mostly in the event of traveling alone or something similar.
Do any of you who are freaking out realize that there are rules and guidelines to carrying a concealed weapon. Simply tucking it in your waistband as I think many envision is not the reality.
Just because someone wants the right to carry a concealed weapon, doesn't mean that they are going to carry it to the grocery store or that they have any intention of playing "Dirty Harry".

 

[reefforbrains]

I let my CCW run out last year but it is very common out here to carry. Rural and lots of drugs and crime, I am not hot head nor vigilante, but it sure is nice to have a weapon on ya if your out in the middle of the backwoods by yourself.
Excellent choice, Dig through the archives I have long preached about the greatness of the Springfield XD series.

 

[thirty5]

Originally Posted by DeltaBlack22

I'm in North Carolina... I think its sad that you are against responsible upstanding citizens carrying weapons. It would be a great deterrant for crimes if more people carried. I personally go through a lot of training on different weapons systems as well. If I can trust 18 year old kids fresh out of high school to shoot heavy machine guns I think you should be able to trust me with a pea shooter that could prevent a robbery/----/carjacking who knows what.
I'm editing this post here.......... I re-read your post and you mentioned how huge the responsibility was to carry a firearm. Again I want to touch on the fact that there are thousands of military personell faced with those exact same decisions that you (I assume you are law enforcement) make on a day to day basis. People get burned in wartime theaters for the same things that can ruin your carrear as law enforcement officer back in the states.
Delta,
Im sorry if you got offened by my comments that was not the purpose. I just want to put it out there.
And yes 18 yoa right out of HS do carry machine guns, but they do get a HUGE amount of training. And it is something that they will do most likely EVERY DAY. So in time you get better with what you do. Carrying a weapon concealed as protection is not the same. I will not say "you" cause i dont know the answer, but i would have to say that MOST people who CC shoot 2x a year. That is not even close to what is necessary to remain properly trained.
And you definately mistook my rants.
I am not against for for any upstanding person to carry a weapon. If you look back i had said that needed the proper training to be sure they can handle the weapon properly and use it correctly. And i would have to say that MOST people will never get that training that is necessary.
So again if i offeneded you I apologize.
One more story to back up my opinion.
My dad has a friend in PA and this guy has carries concealed in his vehicle. He keeps the damn gun in his glove compartment. Now is drives alot and he takes it out of state. Now that is a big NONO. Now that is not being responsible. And i think that alot of people do that. I told my dad that if i stopped someone that was carrying a weapon in NJ even with a CC permit out of state and he was in NJ and i saw the weapon in the glove box, that he would probably get removed forcefully by gunpoint and then arrested and charged with it.
I would like to clarify my stance on this. It comes down to RESPONSIBILITY, TRAINING and SAFETY. Hearing people say that they will juext execute people as they run away is ridiculous. People watch TV too much thinking that just saying that he turned around and shot at me will work.
Well again i'm sorry for hijacking your thread.
AND SIG SAUER ALL THE WAY!!

 

[thirty5]

Originally Posted by reefraff
Ahhh, so in your world you let the thug keep going until an innocent person finally gets shot and maybe killed. NOBODY will put a gun in my face (other than a cop with a legit reason) and get away with it if I can help it. Remember in my original post I mention I would execute them IF I HAD A SAFE AND CLEAR SHOT.
Reef
Not sure of your experience. So i cant comment on that. I am one of the better shots in my dept. And we do drills to attempt to mimic real life shooting, with distractions, running, surprises. Very hard to train like that cause it can be unsafe.
But even at 15 yards and rapid fire on command it is hard to hit a motionless target, Forget the Stress of just having a gun in your face, and then the person running, and then you trying to shoot at him. I will bet that you will miss and bullets travel a long distance they just dont stop after they miss.
So if it were to happen where you were mugged, robbed, or whatever and that person takes off, then the best thing tha that you can be at this point is a GREAT witness. If you want to take off on foot after that person then fine, but just shootin "in their direction" is not the answer. Cause dont tell me that you will get a proper sight picture and carfeull squeeze the trigger and have a controlled shot. I even have a laser sight on my P239 and belive it or not, does not work that well. Great deterrant, but for actual shooting no good.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
"Yep officer, I yelled stop I have a gun hoping he would at least throw my wallet down and he looked over his shoulder as he was running and started to point the gun back in my direction."

Two witnesses, only one talking - LOL
Yes sir, officer, it was self-defense... If you don't believe me, you can ask the deceased

 

[seasalt101]

Originally Posted by thirty5
Again it all has to come down to that you have to be able to convince the jurors that you felt that your life was in danger.
me personally easy i've been fightin cancer 3 years i'm down to 153lbs (i'm 6'2) and i've already talked to the local law enforcement here i have tubes in me and i look like a healthy auswitsz prisoner right now which isn't a healthy sight and hopefully just temporarily pretty feeble (i can walk about 200ft without stopping to rest) now this is only my situation i realize but there are 3 young children here that i will protect with whatever force needed, and in my situation it is shoot and ask questions later and i am also ex-military and i was an avid gun collector at one time who did go to the range with all my weapons regularly and i also used to hunt every season, does this make me an expert no, but it does make me comfortable with what i am aiming at i will hit...tobin

 

[yogoshio]

Actually, statistics across the country show worldwide that areas with a high percentage of weapon carriers have a lower crime rate than areas with low weapon carriers. So, nuts to all you gun scared people.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by thirty5
Reef LOL
Not really sure if you are serious about that. But you have to be careful. Cause here in NJ you cant just shoot someone for breaking into your house. Once again you need see deadly force to use deadly force.
There is no such thing as a warning shot.

So you can't defend yourself until the person who breaks into your home displays a weapon. I guess a woman would just have to submit to being raped rather than shooting her attacker? Not a state I would want to live in.
I live in Colorado now which is a no retreat state. If someone threatens you on your property or place of business legally you don't have to attempt to flee before using deadly force. If someone just walked in my house I would definatly give them the chance to leave the way they came if they didn't display a weapon but if they keep coming I am not going to assume they wouldn't be able to strangle me or something. I would consider my life in peril if someone kept coming at me with a gun pointed at them.
To attempt to swing the thread back on topic I would say I like a 45 auto for home defense because they are less apt to go through a wall and end up in your neighbors living room. Once the bullet hits something it tends to start tumbling and loses energy pretty quick. Smaller fast moving rounds like a 40 will peirce nicely and keep going a greater distance. Another nice item is the Glaser Saftey Slug. It is a polymer slug full of BB's that will shatter once it hits about anything so while it will pretty much stop anyone with a direct hit it wont cause much damage with a ricochet or if you miss and shoot through say a piece of drywall. I used to keep 2 of those as the first rounds in the clip and then hollow points.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by thirty5
Reef
Not sure of your experience. So i cant comment on that. I am one of the better shots in my dept. And we do drills to attempt to mimic real life shooting, with distractions, running, surprises. Very hard to train like that cause it can be unsafe.
But even at 15 yards and rapid fire on command it is hard to hit a motionless target, Forget the Stress of just having a gun in your face, and then the person running, and then you trying to shoot at him. I will bet that you will miss and bullets travel a long distance they just dont stop after they miss.
So if it were to happen where you were mugged, robbed, or whatever and that person takes off, then the best thing tha that you can be at this point is a GREAT witness. If you want to take off on foot after that person then fine, but just shootin "in their direction" is not the answer. Cause dont tell me that you will get a proper sight picture and carfeull squeeze the trigger and have a controlled shot. I even have a laser sight on my P239 and belive it or not, does not work that well. Great deterrant, but for actual shooting no good.
Let me explain what I mean when I say I wouldn't shoot unless I had a free and clear shot. My theory is never assume you will hit your target so make sure of your back stop. I love these movies where they show the cops firing at a car driving down a crowded street a 100 feet away. Yeah, like that is going to happen.

 

[huskychasrs]

NJ is such an anti-gun state its ridiculous.
They've managed to warp a lot of people to think guns are bad...oooohoohh.
DB22...Why not a M-9? Good balance easy to shoot.

 

[nietzsche]

you know not all women HAVE to carry guns. theres mace, those tazer gun things, they even stuff that that make a super loud noise that stops the attaker i even think they have some with built in needles that takes the person's blood. therse just a lot of things out there.
i live in an area where there are people who cross drugs across the border and also a lot of people who jack people and take their cars back across the border to sell them back to the people in the mexican government (some parts are really bad compared to others). youd be plain out STUPID to even think of shooting one of these guys from a gang called los zetas or any other for that matter. they WILL find you and kill you in your own house or anywhere. my friend's uncle was attacked by one of these guys who wanted to take his truck, the guy came out and flat out said, "i like your truck. im going to be taking it," the uncle said, "that's my truck and no one is going to be taking it from me." well they fought and the uncle got him in the fight, but later that day they broke into his house and beat the crap out of him, all of them had guns by the way.
i think for the most part the people who are being killed are those are directly involved in something (yes, even the police are involved in crossing drugs, buying drugs, and serving as security for these guys). i think you can and should give up something stupid as a personal belonging instead of trying to be brave about it and die just someone took your wallet.
i remember when i was visiting my gf in her town, i left at night and i saw a cop at the house of a drug dealer, well, the cop chased me down and started flashing his spot beam at me and then just took off, unfortunately her town is worse than others, even the texas state trooper is involved.
and for the most of you, who all of a sudden says you have the right to be the law? just because you have a license to carry a gun and shoot? i think many people need to wake up and just grow up and live your life. why am i going to buy a gun just because theres a lot of crime here? i'm not asking for trouble or looking for it, and if it happens it happens and i'm going to deal with it. yeah, someone broke into our truck at the grocery store, luckily we had nothing they could take, but am i going to all of a sudden buy a gun just because i feel threatened?

 

[nietzsche]

lol sorry for the rant