Conservatives vs. Liberals

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3273635
That's the problem Darth. You want immediate results from the guy. Obama spent the first year of his term catching up with all the crap Bush left him. And PLEASE don't tell me Bush left this country in some perfect world in the last two years of his second term. That's why the liberals still blame Bush. Oh wait, it wasn't Bush, it was the Democrat-led Congress.

Yet you go on saying Obama doesn't do anything but criticize Congress instead of working with them. Why didn't Bush do the same? I don't care who you would've stuck in that position in 2008. Nothing would be where you and all the other Conservatives in this country would want it. McCain, Romney, Clinton, whoever wouldn't be any further than where Obama is now. That's the reality of it. But instead of giving the guy at least some benefit of the doubt, you just want to lay the hammer down on the guy to try and run him out of office so we can have yet another Bush clone, or god forbid another Reagan.
OK, where to begin. Lets start here.
Working with Congress? Seriously, it is easy to work with Congress when your own party is in Control. Bush did work with Congress...Remember the passed the Tarp Fund. They got the ball rolling for the Auto Industry bailout as well.
Here is why I criticise him on the economy. The downturn/crash is not his fault. But the current state of things is. Here is why. He promised if stimulus was passed Unemployment would not go passed 7%. His words, not Mine. What do we have today? Ok.
Point 2. The bank bailout was suppossed to shore up the banks so the could continue lending. The was a bush/congress Idea and Obama backed it.
Now, with all this said. Now Obama is asking for a jobs bill. He is talking about another bank bailout loan. And we now have state governments starting to lkay off employees, not just the Private sector anymore. You tell me to give it some time...which I would...But our own leader isn't giving it anytime himself. Which tells me 1 of two things, he lied to the American people, or he realizes his ideas were wrong and is looking to spend more money to fix it. Either way Obama and Congress aren't giving it time. So why should I give it time? Especially nopw that the stock market is starting to decline AGAIN!
I would Take another Reagan any day over 90% of the politicians out there.

 

[scottnlisa]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3273636
But it waaaaas the Democrat led Congress

Look, Congress does create all the spending. The white house can't spind a nickle if Congress doesn't approve it and when Pelosi and Reid hit town the economy was in good shape so why would it be fair to only blame Bush.
nothing got accomplished because we're so divided. it's the same way now unfortunately. In my opinion Obama is blaming Bush because it was under Bush's watch that all this nonsense went on... it's going to take at least 2 different administrations to clean up baby Bush's mess.

 

[scottnlisa]

It's futile to go back and forth on this subject. I don't like to be labeled liberal but I have been labeled that and it seems that the other side or those whose opinions are more conservative than mine like to label left VS. right etc. I'm not commenting on all the quoting of my words bating me to come back with an attack... we're all entitled to an opinion I can agree to disagree but nobody is going to change my mind on the way I feel and vote. I hope everyone has a good memorial day weekend
Lisa (the mouthy 1/2 of the dynamic duo)

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3273667
OK, where to begin. Lets start here.
Working with Congress? Seriously, it is easy to work with Congress when your own party is in Control. Bush did work with Congress...Remember the passed the Tarp Fund. They got the ball rolling for the Auto Industry bailout as well.
Here is why I criticise him on the economy. The downturn/crash is not his fault. But the current state of things is. Here is why. He promised if stimulus was passed Unemployment would not go passed 7%. His words, not Mine. What do we have today? Ok.
Point 2. The bank bailout was suppossed to shore up the banks so the could continue lending. The was a bush/congress Idea and Obama backed it.
Now, with all this said. Now Obama is asking for a jobs bill. He is talking about another bank bailout loan. And we now have state governments starting to lkay off employees, not just the Private sector anymore. You tell me to give it some time...which I would...But our own leader isn't giving it anytime himself. Which tells me 1 of two things, he lied to the American people, or he realizes his ideas were wrong and is looking to spend more money to fix it. Either way Obama and Congress aren't giving it time. So why should I give it time? Especially nopw that the stock market is starting to decline AGAIN!
I would Take another Reagan any day over 90% of the politicians out there.
I do agree that we would be in exactly the same or worse boat with McCain as president and I am not even taking into account party politics, he honestly seems to be suffering from senality or some kind of dementia these days. Best case scenerio he is willing to change every political view he has had over his time in congress to get re-elected just one more time. The GOP has to start fielding some better canidates and also stop eating itself in these ridiculous party purges. I'm all for getting rid of anyone in congress who has been there for too long, but when you hear about the tea party already going after Brown because he does not vote with them 100% percent of the time, but instead he tries to represent his district it really makes you wonder who if anyone is in charge over there. I, also wonder what the true motivations are of the conservatives when they are not trying to get rid of someone like John Ensign, sure Reid needs to go, but clearly this guy should be at the head of the list for a purge, yet he is not.
Fishtaco
Fishtaco

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by scottnlisa
http:///forum/post/3273690
nothing got accomplished because we're so divided. it's the same way now unfortunately. In my opinion Obama is blaming Bush because it was under Bush's watch that all this nonsense went on... it's going to take at least 2 different administrations to clean up baby Bush's mess.
Divided, Obama has a 59 seats in the senate and something like 40 seats in the house. And he's having a hard time getting his stuff passed. It seems to me the country is coming together, against obama...

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3273667
OK, where to begin. Lets start here.
Working with Congress? Seriously, it is easy to work with Congress when your own party is in Control. Bush did work with Congress...Remember the passed the Tarp Fund. They got the ball rolling for the Auto Industry bailout as well.
Here is why I criticise him on the economy. The downturn/crash is not his fault. But the current state of things is. Here is why. He promised if stimulus was passed Unemployment would not go passed 7%. His words, not Mine. What do we have today? Ok.
Point 2. The bank bailout was suppossed to shore up the banks so the could continue lending. The was a bush/congress Idea and Obama backed it.
Now, with all this said. Now Obama is asking for a jobs bill. He is talking about another bank bailout loan. And we now have state governments starting to lkay off employees, not just the Private sector anymore. You tell me to give it some time...which I would...But our own leader isn't giving it anytime himself. Which tells me 1 of two things, he lied to the American people, or he realizes his ideas were wrong and is looking to spend more money to fix it. Either way Obama and Congress aren't giving it time. So why should I give it time? Especially nopw that the stock market is starting to decline AGAIN!
I would Take another Reagan any day over 90% of the politicians out there.
I can agree with you to some degree, but how can you blame Obama for State's not being able to balance their own budgets? Isn't that exactly what you're so gungho for? Let the State's manage themselves, and leave the Feds out of their business?
As far as unemployment, he went with history. Hasn't infusing the economy with money, or providing cash to failing businesses always lowered the unemployment rate in the past? If so, I guess it didn't work this time. What is the solution for lowering unemployment? You can give tax incentives to new businesses and get rid of the corporate tax. But where do you get the money to offset the funds you get from those taxes? Get rid of unneeded federal programs. Which one's? Try finding a politician in Congress that is willing to give up their pork-filled program that benefits only their constituents. Somebody give the guy some viable solutions to the problem. If he sticks his nose in the air and ignores them, I'll be standing right next to you to out the guy come re-election.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3273667
OK, where to begin. Lets start here.
Working with Congress? Seriously, it is easy to work with Congress when your own party is in Control. Bush did work with Congress...Remember the passed the Tarp Fund. They got the ball rolling for the Auto Industry bailout as well.
Here is why I criticise him on the economy. The downturn/crash is not his fault. But the current state of things is. Here is why. He promised if stimulus was passed Unemployment would not go passed 7%. His words, not Mine. What do we have today? Ok.
Point 2. The bank bailout was suppossed to shore up the banks so the could continue lending. The was a bush/congress Idea and Obama backed it.
Now, with all this said. Now Obama is asking for a jobs bill. He is talking about another bank bailout loan. And we now have state governments starting to lkay off employees, not just the Private sector anymore. You tell me to give it some time...which I would...But our own leader isn't giving it anytime himself. Which tells me 1 of two things, he lied to the American people, or he realizes his ideas were wrong and is looking to spend more money to fix it. Either way Obama and Congress aren't giving it time. So why should I give it time? Especially nopw that the stock market is starting to decline AGAIN!
I would Take another Reagan any day over 90% of the politicians out there.
I disagree to a point, Bush did work together with dems, as in caved to their demands. He went way way off the reservation in his last year. He went very Keynesian. Those things don't work. Liberal ideology is still to blame, and it doesn't matter what is after your name (R) or (D).

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3273699
I can agree with you to some degree, but how can you blame Obama for State's not being able to balance their own budgets? Isn't that exactly what you're so gungho for? Let the State's manage themselves, and leave the Feds out of their business?
As far as unemployment, he went with history. Hasn't infusing the economy with money, or providing cash to failing businesses always lowered the unemployment rate in the past? If so, I guess it didn't work this time. What is the solution for lowering unemployment? You can give tax incentives to new businesses and get rid of the corporate tax. But where do you get the money to offset the funds you get from those taxes? Get rid of unneeded federal programs. Which one's? Try finding a politician in Congress that is willing to give up their pork-filled program that benefits only their constituents. Somebody give the guy some viable solutions to the problem. If he sticks his nose in the air and ignores them, I'll be standing right next to you to out the guy come re-election.
But I thought he was the messiah, that is how he campaigned, he'd stop business as usual, balance the budget, just his name would bring the Iranians to the table....
But wait, it was to clinton's credit the budget was "balanced" but congress's fault obama is running a trillion dollar deficit... Still not getting that logic....

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3273701
But I thought he was the messiah, that is how he campaigned, he'd stop business as usual, balance the budget, just his name would bring the Iranians to the table....
Yet another great insight from std... Once a right-winger, always a right-winger.

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3273701
But I thought he was the messiah, that is how he campaigned, he'd stop business as usual, balance the budget, just his name would bring the Iranians to the table....
But wait, it was to clinton's credit the budget was "balanced" but congress's fault obama is running a trillion dollar deficit... Still not getting that logic....
Hey, you know as soon as you used the term messiah it is getting you dangerously close to be labeled a chain mail conservative. LOL
Fishtaco

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by scottnlisa
http:///forum/post/3273690
nothing got accomplished because we're so divided. it's the same way now unfortunately. In my opinion Obama is blaming Bush because it was under Bush's watch that all this nonsense went on... it's going to take at least 2 different administrations to clean up baby Bush's mess.
Obama had super majorities in both houses until Brown was elected. You can't blame Bush for Obama getting nothing done and your beloved Democrats held control of both houses the last 2 years of Bush so if it was all his fault they had a 2 year head start on cleaning up the mess.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3273693
I do agree that we would be in exactly the same or worse boat with McCain as president and I am not even taking into account party politics, he honestly seems to be suffering from senality or some kind of dementia these days. Best case scenerio he is willing to change every political view he has had over his time in congress to get re-elected just one more time. The GOP has to start fielding some better canidates and also stop eating itself in these ridiculous party purges. I'm all for getting rid of anyone in congress who has been there for too long, but when you hear about the tea party already going after Brown because he does not vote with them 100% percent of the time, but instead he tries to represent his district it really makes you wonder who if anyone is in charge over there. I, also wonder what the true motivations are of the conservatives when they are not trying to get rid of someone like John Ensign, sure Reid needs to go, but clearly this guy should be at the head of the list for a purge, yet he is not.
Fishtaco
Fishtaco
We would be better off with Mclame simply because Congress wouldn't have been going along with whatever he wanted to do,

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3273720
We would be better off with Mclame simply because Congress wouldn't have been going along with whatever he wanted to do,
True, except he still would have some war powers and with Palin in his ear who knows what might have happened. He wakes up on the wrong side of the bed and decides to bomb somebody with out military stretched so thin, things could have got very ugly, very quickly.
Fishtaco

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3273722
True, except he still would have some war powers and with Palin in his ear who knows what might have happened. He wakes up on the wrong side of the bed and decides to bomb somebody with out military stretched so thin, things could have got very ugly, very quickly.
Fishtaco
You don't know much about McCain do you.

 

[scottnlisa]

it seems to me that when an attempt to get something passed the republicans throw a tantrum and threaten to filabuster and in my opinion and I'm entitled that they are sore losers. Bush didn't play well with others he didn't cave to anyone if he did more would have gotten accomplished... this thread is a tale of misery loves company not playing the game anymore being called a dummycrat so I respond etc. Reef and stdreb27 disagree with everyone it appears that your just miserable and want to argue. I hope issues get better in your lives. It's too easy to type such hate when chances are you'd never say the same thing to my face.
Peace,
Lisa

 

[scottnlisa]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3273698
Divided, Obama has a 59 seats in the senate and something like 40 seats in the house. And he's having a hard time getting his stuff passed. It seems to me the country is coming together, against obama...
We are divided as a nation and it reflects on the senate and representatives they want to please their constituants that is what I mean't my mistake I needed to clarify. and for the record John McCain is a good man he served our country and suffered greatly but I agree he does seem to be in Decline. in his prime he was a hell of a senator though.

 

[reefraff]

I'll ignore yet more of your petty comments and point out it was the Democrats threatening to use the filibuster on a Bush supreme court nominee, Never happened before. Bush did work with Ted Kennedy and the Democrats on no child left behind and illegal immigration. Name me a single instance where Obama has tried to compromise with Republicans on a single issue.

 

[scottnlisa]

why so I can be as miserable as you? Nah I'd rather have a good evening watching TV than sitting in front of the computer arguing with you.

 

[fishtaco]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3273727
You don't know much about McCain do you.
Which McCain?

 

[mantisman51]

And for the year and 2 months Obama had a filibuster proof Senate, what happened there? The Dems were busy doing nothing and blaming the Reps when they had a lock on the Senate. I think the Reps did make a huge calculated mistake though. I believe Obama was willing to reach some compromises with the Reps even if only for political cover and they always stone-walled him. He even took heat from his own party to reach out to the Reps-Afghanistan/Iraq and opening up more drilling for oil, but the Reps blew him off. He has swung to the left, but I think it is because he is tired of trying to reach out to the Reps and believes the only way his agenda will get through is to deal with the terrifyingly leftist Pelosi and Ried. I truly believe a good faith effort by the Reps would have been rewarded by Obama. But now it's water under the bridge.