converting freshwater tank to salt

trigger40

trigger40

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt#post_3545269
Alright and I'm still lost as to how you set up a sump I know you put glass walls in it but what else goes into a good sump?
well what do you want in your sump if all you want is a skimmer you just haft to have a glass box with it sitting in ther secured and a pump in and a pump out of the sump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt#post_3545266
The pods and worms won't make the fish sick or anything will they?
no they are the best food you can get for your fish but not so much the bristle worms. your fish shouldent mess with the bristle worms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt#post_3545265
Out of the fish I have listed which one would be the least aggressive?
if you keep the eel well feed at a minummum of once a day your trigger will be pritty relaxed, but if you under feed the eel he will kill every one.
for my 10 incher i feed a whole cube of squid every day.
 
mauler

mauler

Active Member

if you keep the eel well feed at a minummum of once a day your trigger will be pritty relaxed, but if you under feed the eel he will kill every one. :))):   for my 10 incher i feed a whole cube of squid every day.
Good to know I'll be sure to keep him nice and fat.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt#post_3545246
I have two HOB filters and lots of live plants that help filter but isnt live rock and sand the saltwater equivalent of live plants? And about the sump how would I go about making one and would a 40 or 45 gallon tank work cause I can't fit a 70 in my stand I also have air stone and pump can that pump be used on the protein skimmer?

Hi,

I'm not addressing the fish issue, I don't know anything about them as I have never kept any of them. I leave that to those in the know.

The equivalent of a planted tank would be macroalgae, but tangs gobble it up so you would need a type they don't find appetizing. Chuck out Golf Coast ecosystems.

No air stones, no air pumps. The 40 to 45 would make an awesome sump, go to the DIY section, those guys can help you every step of the way. The protein skimmer needs to be better then the old kind that took an air stone.

Live rock and sand house tiny critters besides being good surface area for the good bacteria...but to absorb the Phosphates, nitrites, ammonia and nitrates from the system, the macros do that. The skimmer removes organic solids from the system...(food the fish don't eat that brakes down that would fuel algae and cyanobacteria growth)

An algae scrubber must be cleaned every week (too much work for my liking)...but you wouldn't need a skimmer or macroalgae, it would replace them. A UV sterilizer is a waste of money, all it would really do is kill the good little critters that swim in the water at night, that live in the rocks making it "live".

On substrate:
Live reef sand is best. Stay away from crushed coral (CC), it's hard for the CUC (clean up crew) to keep clean. Bacteria loaded "live" sand is the next best after live reef, and dry aragonite sand is better then CC
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member

for your consideration here is my overarching overly simplified recommendation.

Start the tank with macro algae in a refugium and get it established right from the start.

then do the rest.

IME $5 worth of macro algaes is more effective in balancing and stabilizing the tank then $1,000s of anything else.

(the refugium can even be just an in tank partition to seperate the fish and macros).


my .02
 
silverado61

silverado61

Well-Known Member
You guys are throwing so much at him your going to scare the crap out of him before he even gets started. lol
Just start with a light bio-load and work your way up as you gain experience (one fish every 6mths or so). That way you can slowly add the GFO reactor, Algae scrubber (you can make one of these yourself), protein scrubber and so on.
Just make sure that before you set it up for saltwater, you get your tank predrilled for the sump. Research will tell you what's needed for that.
 
mauler

mauler

Active Member
Its alright I want as much information as I can get cause I know pretty much nothing about keeping saltwater fish but I'll have head over to the DIY forums and get that sump built but everything but the filters can go in sump right?
 
mauler

mauler

Active Member
And just to make sure there's no way to keep the trigger and the lionfish without them fighting
 
silverado61

silverado61

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/20#post_3545300
Its alright I want as much information as I can get cause I know pretty much nothing about keeping saltwater fish but I'll have head over to the DIY forums and get that sump built but everything but the filters can go in sump right?
You can even start with nothing but macro and your HOBs in it and build up slowly from there as necessity, time, money and experience allows. All you need is the overflow system from the display and a return pump from the sump/refuge. The extra water volume alone will help to keep it somewhat more stable as far as parameters go because any problems that arise will happen slower and will be easier to detect and address.

This is the best place you can be to get info and advice. You've already been contacted by three of the best. GeriDoc, Flower and beaslbob. I can't begin to tell you how much I've learned from these three alone in the short time I've been in the hobby.

Every issue you will come across, and there will be many, there is someone here that is an expert in that area and will walk you through it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/20#post_3545302
And just to make sure there's no way to keep the trigger and the lionfish without them fighting
To put it plain and simple: Nope. Sorry. When it comes to fish compatibility, I wouldn't question anything GeriDoc suggests.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/20#post_3545300
Its alright I want as much information as I can get cause I know pretty much nothing about keeping saltwater fish but I'll have head over to the DIY forums and get that sump built but everything but the filters can go in sump right?

Hi,

Most important is taking it slow, and make sure the tank is cycled, use a chunk of raw shrimp, ghost feed or pure ammonia to kick start the cycle, don't use a live fish. Always keep in mind that whatever critter you add to the tank, will dictate what you can add later.

Yes everything can go in the sump...LOL even a filter if you want to...You won't need the filters, the sump is your filtration system...that being said, I keep seahorses and they are very messy eaters...I had two HOB filters (C4 fluval brand) on the tank besides the sump and refugium. My sump decided to leak, and I no longer have one on the tank...just the two HOB filters, live sand, live rock and macroalgae....Oh and just because I still had it from when I kept a reef....I use an Aquaripure nitrate filter.

There are 100s of ways to do a saltwater tank, we all figure it out as we go what equipment we want to bother with. You can go as simple as a HOB and just some good sand and live rock....or as elaborate as GFO reactors to get rid of phosphates, and CO2 gizmos to add oxygen. You can add an Auto top off unit so you can keep the SG stable 100% of the time. Most of the fancy equipment are for those who want corals. Fish don't really care about nitrates, even into the 100s. Alkalinity and calcium are more important issues to keep up and stable.

So one really necessary thing to have, is a good master test kit. JMO, stay away from API or Red Sea...Instant Ocean, Salifert and SeaChem are better more reliable brands.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
I know that some people on this site, and many in the hobby, swear by HOB filters for marine systems, but I got rid of my HOBs 25 years ago, and have relied on sumps ever since, and my water params are pristine, even when I have a heavy bioload. The sump, with rock in it, as well as some macroalgae (either free macroalgae, or in an algae scrubber), skimmer (optional in a FOWLR), heaters and a crab or two are all you need. If you are concerned about suspended material in the water you can either use a skimmer or put a filter sock on the inflow to the sump. If you use the filter sock, get several and change them regularly (and be sure that the sock is over the sump so if it clogs, the overflow will drain into the sump...just sayin from experience). I agree with Flower that a 40-45 gallon sump would be awesome. Two years ago I broke down my 110 gallon system and replaced it with a 220, but with a small 20 gallon sump that would fit easily beneath the tank. Next week, after much cursing about how the h--l can I fit another thing into the sump (GeriDoc's law: "equipment needs always expand to overfill a sump, regardless of how large it is"), my wife has finally given me permission to drill through the living room floor into the basement so that I can convert the unused 110 gallon tank into a super-sump down there. It is going to have a very large refugium, and I wouldn't surprise me if a few fish happened to find their way to happy lives in the basement "refugium", but don't tell my wife that.
 
mauler

mauler

Active Member
Since everyone is suggesting using macroalgae is that something you can buy or do just wait for it to grow on it's own? And what's a good amount of live rock and sand to use?
 
silverado61

silverado61

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/20#post_3545318
Next week, after much cursing about how the h--l can I fit another thing into the sump (GeriDoc's law: "equipment needs always expand to overfill a sump, regardless of how large it is"), my wife has finally given me permission to drill through the living room floor into the basement so that I can convert the unused 110 gallon tank into a super-sump down there. It is going to have a very large refugium, and I wouldn't surprise me if a few fish happened to find their way to happy lives in the basement "refugium", but don't tell my wife that.
How's that going BTW? You haven't posted anything on it for a while.
 
silverado61

silverado61

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/20#post_3545318
I know that some people on this site, and many in the hobby, swear by HOB filters for marine systems, but I got rid of my HOBs 25 years ago, and have relied on sumps ever since, and my water params are pristine, even when I have a heavy bioload.
I don't by any means swear by an HOB. I only used them because I didn't have a sump and needed filtration. I just thought that until he could reasonably afford any and all equipment, this hobby can be quite costly, that he could use his HOBs in the sump till he can upgrade his system.
 
mauler

mauler

Active Member
Well I think I'm gonna start with the two HOBs and a 40 or 45 gallon sump and some live rock and sand and macroalgae and then add protein skimmerds, powerheads, carbon reactors and all that other good stuff as I add in the fish does that sound acceptable? And by crab do you mean like a live crab?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/20#post_3545319
Since everyone is suggesting using macroalgae is that something you can buy or do just wait for it to grow on it's own? And what's a good amount of live rock and sand to use?

Hi,

Most macros I purchased from Golf Coast Ecosystems... costs around $10.00 a pint, and a little grows and grows... When it grows to the point where you want to trim it back because it's too much, you either give it away, or toss it out. (called harvesting) When you remove the extra outgrowth you are removing the phosphates, nitrates, nitrites and ammonia it uses to grow on, out of the system.

Build your live rock up to about 1/2 up the back of the tank, or just right in the center if you want the fish to swim around the island you made, making some caves would make them happy too. You want to leave enough room between the front and sides of the glass so you can clean it off with a mag float. LOL...You also want to leave your fish with room to swim.

2 inches of sand is perfect, unless you plan to get diggers that need deep sand... and remember to place the rock on the bottom of the tank and push the sand around it, you can not safely build on shifting sand. Many critters dig and that could cause a rock slide, crushing critters and possibly breaking or cracking the glass

A CUC...Clean Up Crew, consists of a combination of:
  • Hermit crabs (they eat snails, so I don't recommend them myself)
  • Snails... a combo of: Trocus, nassarius, certh, nerites, turbos and margarita, just to name a few
  • Serpent or Brittle stars
  • Bristle worms (most live rock already has them)
    Copepods, amphipods, isopods and sea slugs are also found in the live rock (that's what makes the rock "LIVE")
    Emerald crabs, and decorator crabs, and sally lightfoot crabs, are all cool critters that help keep the tank clean.
    urchins (best algae eaters IMO) but need a lot of algae or they starve.


A saltwater tank is a cool little world you create...

And just in case you don't already know this: Unlike a freshwater tank, the cleaners actually do their job. No more removing everything out of the tank, putting the fish in buckets and scrubbing everything down, and vacuuming the sand... Just once a month remove some water (about 3%) and replace the water with new mixed saltwater (a water change) and you are good to go. In between you refill the tank with fresh water (Reverse osmosis) to the point where the tank was originally filled, keeping the water level constant. Water evaporates but the salt doesn't, so you only replace the lost water. As the water evaporates the SG (saltiness) rises, so you want to maintain the original water levels.

Since I have kept SW tanks I have not once vacuumed the sand, my CUC takes care of that. Others on the site do vacuum theirs...like I said, each does things their own way. With a proper CUC, you don't need to. Some fish eat the CUC, so you have to get inventive on what can live with them in the tank...I do think the lionfish you want is among that group.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado61 http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/20#post_3545321
How's that going BTW? You haven't posted anything on it for a while.
We've put the separators into the sump-to-be, I have the new return pump and new hose. Now all I need is the time (and nerve) to actually drill a hole in the living room floor and I'm good to go. I think my son will come over next week and give me a hand.
 
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