converting freshwater tank to salt
- Thread starter mauler
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flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546518
You didn't do water change in 7 years? How'd you manage that?
Hi,
I know a fellow who did no water changes for 26 years on a reef tank. As to how beaslbob did it.... macroalgae absorbs all the nasty's from the water, and doing regular water tests to see what elements need to be dosed, as for the fellow who went 26 years, a well balanced system takes care of itself.
I wouldn't recommend no water changes however to someone just starting out.
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546518
You didn't do water change in 7 years? How'd you manage that?
Hi,
I know a fellow who did no water changes for 26 years on a reef tank. As to how beaslbob did it.... macroalgae absorbs all the nasty's from the water, and doing regular water tests to see what elements need to be dosed, as for the fellow who went 26 years, a well balanced system takes care of itself.
I wouldn't recommend no water changes however to someone just starting out.
2quills
Well-Known Member
I actually have a confession to make. I haven't done a water change in almost a year or fed any of my fish in nearly 8 months.
But I've selected small fish that can live off of the biodiversity in the system while keeping the system well under stocked by average standards.
But I'm with you, Flower. I wouldn't recommend everything I do to everyone. Start with the basics and go from there. No need for unnecessary risks right out of the gate.
But I've selected small fish that can live off of the biodiversity in the system while keeping the system well under stocked by average standards.
But I'm with you, Flower. I wouldn't recommend everything I do to everyone. Start with the basics and go from there. No need for unnecessary risks right out of the gate.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Quote:Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546518
You didn't do water change in 7 years? How'd you manage that?
Just like flower stated.
Basically you balance out the tank so it basically takes care of itself with the more important thing being starting the tank with macro algae right from the start.
the dosing of calcium/alk/magnesium is actually more important for reef tanks and corraline or other hard algaes.
and the use of no water changes using tap water helps also. After all the tap does contain things that are beneficial like calcium carbonate and magnesium.
And please remember that water changes will limit changes but not prevent buildups/depletions. Plus you also have to insure the replacement water is good as well.
I do disagree in that newbies should be actuall told of these ideas. To me it is much more important to establish a balanced eco system which is easy for newbies to do. That way the water changes can be irrelevant.
my .02
You didn't do water change in 7 years? How'd you manage that?
Just like flower stated.
Basically you balance out the tank so it basically takes care of itself with the more important thing being starting the tank with macro algae right from the start.
the dosing of calcium/alk/magnesium is actually more important for reef tanks and corraline or other hard algaes.
and the use of no water changes using tap water helps also. After all the tap does contain things that are beneficial like calcium carbonate and magnesium.
And please remember that water changes will limit changes but not prevent buildups/depletions. Plus you also have to insure the replacement water is good as well.
I do disagree in that newbies should be actuall told of these ideas. To me it is much more important to establish a balanced eco system which is easy for newbies to do. That way the water changes can be irrelevant.
my .02
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546518
You didn't do water change in 7 years? How'd you manage that?
Just like flower stated.
Basically you balance out the tank so it basically takes care of itself with the more important thing being starting the tank with macro algae right from the start.
I do disagree in that newbies should be actuall told of these ideas. To me it is much more important to establish a balanced eco system which is easy for newbies to do. That way the water changes can be irrelevant.
my .02
Good point. I wish I'd realized many things sooner than I did.
I'd still recommend researching your tap water. Last year I was reading up on all of the monthly analysis done by the city. There where three separate instances where the presence of ecoli bacteria had been detected at random taps around the cities south side.
I don't know if something like that would effect a tank. But I do know that I don't want it effecting me. But its not like they go out of their way to advertise that stuff on the news.
I still RO for top offs. Call me crazy.
You didn't do water change in 7 years? How'd you manage that?
Just like flower stated.
Basically you balance out the tank so it basically takes care of itself with the more important thing being starting the tank with macro algae right from the start.
I do disagree in that newbies should be actuall told of these ideas. To me it is much more important to establish a balanced eco system which is easy for newbies to do. That way the water changes can be irrelevant.
my .02
Good point. I wish I'd realized many things sooner than I did.
I'd still recommend researching your tap water. Last year I was reading up on all of the monthly analysis done by the city. There where three separate instances where the presence of ecoli bacteria had been detected at random taps around the cities south side.
I don't know if something like that would effect a tank. But I do know that I don't want it effecting me. But its not like they go out of their way to advertise that stuff on the news.
I still RO for top offs. Call me crazy.
acrylic51
Active Member
Hi,
I know a fellow who did no water changes for 26 years on a reef tank. As to how beaslbob did it.... macroalgae absorbs all the nasty's from the water, and doing regular water tests to see what elements need to be dosed, as for the fellow who went 26 years, a well balanced system takes care of itself.
I wouldn't recommend no water changes however to someone just starting out.
I will play devils advocate...while it might work for some I'm quite sure most aren't keeping the most sensitive inhabitants as well so I don't believe this approach is wise....
I know a fellow who did no water changes for 26 years on a reef tank. As to how beaslbob did it.... macroalgae absorbs all the nasty's from the water, and doing regular water tests to see what elements need to be dosed, as for the fellow who went 26 years, a well balanced system takes care of itself.
I wouldn't recommend no water changes however to someone just starting out.
I will play devils advocate...while it might work for some I'm quite sure most aren't keeping the most sensitive inhabitants as well so I don't believe this approach is wise....
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546539
I will play devils advocate...while it might work for some I'm quite sure most aren't keeping the most sensitive inhabitants as well so I don't believe this approach is wise....
I'm confused...
I know most don't keep "sensitive critters" but what are you calling unwise... no water changes, or doing water changes?
I have a ton of macroalgae in both of my seahorse tanks. They are so dang messy I can't imagine keeping SHs without macros. Calcium, PH and Alkalinity still needs to be dosed, nitrates, ammonia and phosphates are not a worry. For the first time in the 14 years of keeping a SW tank, I had to test and dose for iron, seems macros need a little of it to grow.
I do small water changes on the 90g almost every day to every other day... PH and alkalinity stay low. I have never been able to keep them stable, even when I had it as a reef...I even used to drip Kalk to try and get it up to snuff. The 56g only gets a water change when I have the energy (at least a small one once a month), it looks "happier" then the 90g, but I attribute that to the temperature....macros grow very, very slow in the cold water (65 to 67 degrees) of the 90g. The alkalinity, PH and calcium still need to be dosed for the 56g as well, but not as often...go figure.
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546539
I will play devils advocate...while it might work for some I'm quite sure most aren't keeping the most sensitive inhabitants as well so I don't believe this approach is wise....
I'm confused...
I know most don't keep "sensitive critters" but what are you calling unwise... no water changes, or doing water changes?
I have a ton of macroalgae in both of my seahorse tanks. They are so dang messy I can't imagine keeping SHs without macros. Calcium, PH and Alkalinity still needs to be dosed, nitrates, ammonia and phosphates are not a worry. For the first time in the 14 years of keeping a SW tank, I had to test and dose for iron, seems macros need a little of it to grow.
I do small water changes on the 90g almost every day to every other day... PH and alkalinity stay low. I have never been able to keep them stable, even when I had it as a reef...I even used to drip Kalk to try and get it up to snuff. The 56g only gets a water change when I have the energy (at least a small one once a month), it looks "happier" then the 90g, but I attribute that to the temperature....macros grow very, very slow in the cold water (65 to 67 degrees) of the 90g. The alkalinity, PH and calcium still need to be dosed for the 56g as well, but not as often...go figure.
2quills
Well-Known Member
What should I look for in my tap water like what are the bad things? And how would I go about setting my tank up to make it a balanced ecosystem?
Arsenic, chlorine, lead, mercury, pesticides to name a few. Even chemicals like benzene.
In small amounts they may not kill us over night but long term exposure can cause problems. Even Flouride which is considered good for us is extremely toxic at high levels.
Now imagine you were a critter not typically exposed to any of that on a regular basis, even at tiny levels. I have to imagine would that might mean for tiny inhabitants.
For me its a simple matter of trying to be pro active in regaurds to their health I suppose. If you're unsure then my default response would be to sugguest proceeding with caution. Humans manage our water and they aren't always perfect.
My .02
Arsenic, chlorine, lead, mercury, pesticides to name a few. Even chemicals like benzene.
In small amounts they may not kill us over night but long term exposure can cause problems. Even Flouride which is considered good for us is extremely toxic at high levels.
Now imagine you were a critter not typically exposed to any of that on a regular basis, even at tiny levels. I have to imagine would that might mean for tiny inhabitants.
For me its a simple matter of trying to be pro active in regaurds to their health I suppose. If you're unsure then my default response would be to sugguest proceeding with caution. Humans manage our water and they aren't always perfect.
My .02
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546541
I'm confused...
I know most don't keep "sensitive critters" but what are you calling unwise... no water changes, or doing water changes?
I have a ton of macroalgae in both of my seahorse tanks. They are so dang messy I can't imagine keeping SHs without macros. Calcium, PH and Alkalinity still needs to be dosed, nitrates, ammonia and phosphates are not a worry. For the first time in the 14 years of keeping a SW tank, I had to test and dose for iron, seems macros need a little of it to grow.
I do small water changes on the 90g almost every day to every other day... PH and alkalinity stay low. I have never been able to keep them stable, even when I had it as a reef...I even used to drip Kalk to try and get it up to snuff. The 56g only gets a water change when I have the energy (at least a small one once a month), it looks "happier" then the 90g, but I attribute that to the temperature....macros grow very, very slow in the cold water (65 to 67 degrees) of the 90g. The alkalinity, PH and calcium still need to be dosed for the 56g as well, but not as often...go figure.
I'm calling "no water changes" unwise....Again I guess it depends what "we" call "thriving"...Just living and a tad of growth well IMHO is poor.....I don't want to see drab, washed out colors.....I'm not saying it can't be done, but when you look at all the truly remarkable, colorful tanks what is the common thing they all have in common??? They do water changes....I'm sorry I'm not buying into the crap of macro removes all the nasties....let's be reasonable about it. There is nothing 100% in this hobby and that's totally effective, and macros fall into this just as saying a scrubber is 100%. It's just not true. We keep closed systems. You can't test every element contained in salt mix or NSW in our systems effectively. So with that being said you are not replacing all these depleted elements with adding additives or just topping off with RO water....Again these so called "no water change" tanks can be done, but I'd like to see proof of the color or TOTM quality systems that go without water changes.....
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546541
I'm confused...
I know most don't keep "sensitive critters" but what are you calling unwise... no water changes, or doing water changes?
I have a ton of macroalgae in both of my seahorse tanks. They are so dang messy I can't imagine keeping SHs without macros. Calcium, PH and Alkalinity still needs to be dosed, nitrates, ammonia and phosphates are not a worry. For the first time in the 14 years of keeping a SW tank, I had to test and dose for iron, seems macros need a little of it to grow.
I do small water changes on the 90g almost every day to every other day... PH and alkalinity stay low. I have never been able to keep them stable, even when I had it as a reef...I even used to drip Kalk to try and get it up to snuff. The 56g only gets a water change when I have the energy (at least a small one once a month), it looks "happier" then the 90g, but I attribute that to the temperature....macros grow very, very slow in the cold water (65 to 67 degrees) of the 90g. The alkalinity, PH and calcium still need to be dosed for the 56g as well, but not as often...go figure.
I'm calling "no water changes" unwise....Again I guess it depends what "we" call "thriving"...Just living and a tad of growth well IMHO is poor.....I don't want to see drab, washed out colors.....I'm not saying it can't be done, but when you look at all the truly remarkable, colorful tanks what is the common thing they all have in common??? They do water changes....I'm sorry I'm not buying into the crap of macro removes all the nasties....let's be reasonable about it. There is nothing 100% in this hobby and that's totally effective, and macros fall into this just as saying a scrubber is 100%. It's just not true. We keep closed systems. You can't test every element contained in salt mix or NSW in our systems effectively. So with that being said you are not replacing all these depleted elements with adding additives or just topping off with RO water....Again these so called "no water change" tanks can be done, but I'd like to see proof of the color or TOTM quality systems that go without water changes.....
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546552
I think I'll stick with RODI water but how do I get my tank to were I wouldn't have to do water changes?
Not trying to be rude or a jerk, but get the basics down and "master" them as best and then seek the challenge.......JMHO........
Originally Posted by mauler http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546552
I think I'll stick with RODI water but how do I get my tank to were I wouldn't have to do water changes?
Not trying to be rude or a jerk, but get the basics down and "master" them as best and then seek the challenge.......JMHO........
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546553
I'm calling "no water changes" unwise....Again I guess it depends what "we" call "thriving"...Just living and a tad of growth well IMHO is poor.....I don't want to see drab, washed out colors.....I'm not saying it can't be done, but when you look at all the truly remarkable, colorful tanks what is the common thing they all have in common??? They do water changes....I'm sorry I'm not buying into the crap of macro removes all the nasties....let's be reasonable about it. There is nothing 100% in this hobby and that's totally effective, and macros fall into this just as saying a scrubber is 100%. It's just not true. We keep closed systems. You can't test every element contained in salt mix or NSW in our systems effectively. So with that being said you are not replacing all these depleted elements with adding additives or just topping off with RO water....Again these so called "no water change" tanks can be done, but I'd like to see proof of the color or TOTM quality systems that go without water changes.....
The fellow with the 225g tank with no water changes for 26 years had a reef, and he didn't have to even feed the fish but once a month because the fish eggs and little rock critters fed the fish. I found his system impressive because he has a true little ecosystem going on. I moved 7 years ago and not seen his tank of late.
I must agree with you, his corals were no where near as brilliant in color as those tanks where water changes were regularly done, and he had Metal Halide lighting which usually brings out the best color in corals.
I think it all depends on the goal of the hobbyist, if you want those drop dead beautiful corals, or an ecosystem that runs itself. It's a great hobby no matter what your goal.
I have macoalgae, and I still do water changes, although not as often as I should in the 56g...the tank just looks happier when I do a water change. The colors of the macros are brilliant red and green in the warmer tank, while in the colder 90g the red is more rust in color. However I had a great discovery a few days ago...the Codium macro that I had, died off a year ago, but I see a small piece has decided to begin growing on the decorative plastic chain, that's a dark hunter green macro that loves cold water, so fingers crossed.
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546553
I'm calling "no water changes" unwise....Again I guess it depends what "we" call "thriving"...Just living and a tad of growth well IMHO is poor.....I don't want to see drab, washed out colors.....I'm not saying it can't be done, but when you look at all the truly remarkable, colorful tanks what is the common thing they all have in common??? They do water changes....I'm sorry I'm not buying into the crap of macro removes all the nasties....let's be reasonable about it. There is nothing 100% in this hobby and that's totally effective, and macros fall into this just as saying a scrubber is 100%. It's just not true. We keep closed systems. You can't test every element contained in salt mix or NSW in our systems effectively. So with that being said you are not replacing all these depleted elements with adding additives or just topping off with RO water....Again these so called "no water change" tanks can be done, but I'd like to see proof of the color or TOTM quality systems that go without water changes.....
The fellow with the 225g tank with no water changes for 26 years had a reef, and he didn't have to even feed the fish but once a month because the fish eggs and little rock critters fed the fish. I found his system impressive because he has a true little ecosystem going on. I moved 7 years ago and not seen his tank of late.
I must agree with you, his corals were no where near as brilliant in color as those tanks where water changes were regularly done, and he had Metal Halide lighting which usually brings out the best color in corals.
I think it all depends on the goal of the hobbyist, if you want those drop dead beautiful corals, or an ecosystem that runs itself. It's a great hobby no matter what your goal.
I have macoalgae, and I still do water changes, although not as often as I should in the 56g...the tank just looks happier when I do a water change. The colors of the macros are brilliant red and green in the warmer tank, while in the colder 90g the red is more rust in color. However I had a great discovery a few days ago...the Codium macro that I had, died off a year ago, but I see a small piece has decided to begin growing on the decorative plastic chain, that's a dark hunter green macro that loves cold water, so fingers crossed.
silverado61
Well-Known Member
In case you don't understand the abbreviations: BB = bare bottom. DSB = deep sand beds. The last one is: SSB = (I think) substrate sand beds. Or sand substrate beds.
The last one is a guess but I think I'm close.
Jeez Acrylic, don't confuse us newbies. Lmao
The last one is a guess but I think I'm close.
Jeez Acrylic, don't confuse us newbies. Lmao
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado61 http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546592
In case you don't understand the abbreviations: BB = bare bottom. DSB = deep sand beds. The last one is: SSB = (I think) substrate sand beds. Or sand substrate beds.
The last one is a guess but I think I'm close.
Jeez Acrylic, don't confuse us newbies. Lmao
Sorry guys!!!!! SSB = Shallow Sand Bed.......Not trying to confuse but the topic is a no no IMHO until you've mastered the basics......
Originally Posted by silverado61 http:///t/397664/converting-freshwater-tank-to-salt/180#post_3546592
In case you don't understand the abbreviations: BB = bare bottom. DSB = deep sand beds. The last one is: SSB = (I think) substrate sand beds. Or sand substrate beds.
The last one is a guess but I think I'm close.
Jeez Acrylic, don't confuse us newbies. Lmao
Sorry guys!!!!! SSB = Shallow Sand Bed.......Not trying to confuse but the topic is a no no IMHO until you've mastered the basics......