Dead Squamosa

[aileena]

Came home from class at noon today and the squamosa was dead...his insides were gone, except for the mussle...it was in a open position and wouldn't close...
I called the LFS and they said that it was really wierd that the squamosa would die in a healthy tank...I feel real bad...
The LFS Gave me credit..so I purchased another clam....not a squamosa though...it is a blue color...i think it is a maxima of some kind....not an ultra though I know that...
The guy at the LFS said that the clam should be placed in the substrate and covered a little so that the foot attaches to the substrate, otherwise it will get stressed out...
Hope this clam works out...it better...just thought I would let you all know...

 

[bang guy]

It is difficult to see when a clam is dying. I would guess that your Squamosa has been dying for a couple of weeks.
Your new clam sounds like a Maxima. It will require some very intense light. Personally I would not try one without HID lighting like Metal Halide or Mercury Vapor.

 

[cadbury]

Ditto! You should'nt try anything else other than a Squamosa or a dersea

 

[aileena]

I hope that this clam will be ok...although I do not have Metal Halide lights...I do have 225watts of vho over a 29g....that works out to be like 7.75 watts per gallon...if I had a 150watt MH that would be less light than I have now...not to mention that the halide would have to be much further away from the water than the VHO lights are now...
Doesn't this make a difference??? 225 of vho isn't as good as 225 MH???

 

[yosemite sam]

Sorry to hear for your loss, but you should probably take the maxima back. There's always a reason for a death, and it helps to figure it out before spending money on a replacement. Just out of curiousity, how long did you have the clam? How long was it at the LFS before you bought it? Like Bang Guy said, it may have been slowly dying for a while. If you only recently bought it, the problem may have to do with the supplier of the clams or the LFS you bought it at. I have seen clams that have just come in to the LFS I go to, and they were in terrible condition, with aiptasia anemones growing on the shells and very pale, like they had been in insufficient lighting. Needless to say, many of these clams didn't make it.

 

[aileena]

I only had the squamosa for like 2 days before it died so i think that bang guy was right in saying that it had already been dying for a few weeks at the LFS...The LFS didn't tell me how long they had the clam...
Like I said I don't think the clams death was my fault since my water quality is perfect and the tank has been up for a year...when picking out the maxima I took real care to look carefully at it for any problems like rotting or those little white shell parasites...thinking back the squamosa looked rather sunken into its shell when I got it...
The maxima I am a little confused about...I don't understand why 225 watts of VHO aren't as good as 225 MH lights? Don't they put out the same lumens per watt??? The LFS I go to is really decent...as a matter of fact the squamosa is the only thing I ever bought from them that died...the guy I spoke with said that although the vho lights aren't the best they are acceptable...anyone shed light on this???

 

[chris l]

aileena.........please take the clam back as others have stated. Go buy the book Giant Clams by Knopp and read it first. I have got 425w of MH on my 44g and was still worried that this wasn't going to be enough light.

 

[nm reef]

Clams of any type should only be added to a well established and mature system with stable water levels and adaquate lighting for the particular clam. In my personal opinion they should never be placed in anything less than ideal conditions. Your squamosa may have had a chance if the system was stable and water levels were good...how long has your reef been set up? What are your current water test for calcium/alkalinity/PH/temp/nirtates?
The agin as mentioned the clam may have been in trouble when you purchased it...I've seen some sickly looking clams in LFS's that I would never spend money on.
As for the maxima...I too feel that it may be best to return that clam and possibly start looking for reasons the squamosa didn't make it...myself I don't think you've got adaquate conditions for a maxima.
Check this link for some outstanding introductory information on clams in general...maybe the information will be useful.

 

[aileena]

The tank has been set up for a year...as a matter of fact it will be 1 year in April...the tests were done for 2 days while I had the squamosa clam...
Amonia = 0
nitrite = 0
nitrate = 10-15ppm
Kh = 12
temp = 80
salinity = 1.024-1.026
calcium = ? (no test kit)
I have no idea why the squamosa died...I know that it wasn't my water quality or that my tank wasn't stable...Both are great...I simply figured that the clam was sickly before I got him and the move to my tank just put it over the edge. I know they get stressed very easy...
About the maxima and the lighting I am still rather indifferent...now that I got the clam to my tank and its been through the stress of moving once if I take it back to the LFS and move it again I will be stressing it out even more....
Another thing I wanted to ask is exactly how many watts of metal halide lights do people suggest??? I looked at a lumen per watts table for different types of lighting and came up with this...
1) a 175 MH puts out about as many lumens as 300 watts of VHO.
Is 175 watt metal halide over a 29 gallon enough for a maxima??? for if it is then 300 watts of vho puts out as many lumens as the 175 MH...and the spectrum of VHO is much better than that of MH...
Its easier for me to add another light on my canopy and get 300 watts VHO than it is to junk the canopy and spend a few 100 dollars on MH lights...
I read the post about PAR and found it mentioned only a one of the sights I read thusfar...then again I have only checked like 8 or 9!!! I'll do some more searching ... I am just concerned about taking the clam back out and stressing him out by another move to the LFS...I can always trade the maxima for another squamosa easily....

 

[aileena]

the calcium test kit is something that I am not worried about...I test the Kh everyother day and I use Kent Tech A & B...it is almost for sure that if the Kh is between 10-12 using the Tech A that the Calcium is between 400-450 using the Tech B...
Either way I can order a calcium test kit...I just think it is someone evident...kinda like if you tested for anomia and there is none and then you test for nitrate and there is like 0-15ppm its more than likely than there is no nitrite...
Bout the lighting...I am rather concerned...I read the Knoff articles that NM Reef put on the link and that article seemed to indicate that the squamosa doesn't require real intense light and that the maxima depending on the color of its mantle will not need as intense light...a darker mantle like brown or dark blue requires less light than a brighter colored mantle...the artilcle also seriously cautioned about moving the clams around and that being the cause of serious stress....
if 250 watts of MH is what you suggest at minimum I can achieve the same lumens result with about 400watts of VHO roughly speaking...so all I need to do is trade my 430 ballast for the 660 at the LFS and add two more lights...that will cost about 75$ and I can keep my canopy...as opposed to getting all new stuff...I am going to keep looking about calculating PAR and lumens and watts....

 

[mbuckley]

It sounds to me like your heart is telling you to keep the clam and you are just looking for the right information to prove it to your head!

 

[aileena]

1) "They can adapt to less lighting, but growth will be slower and color will not be as good as it could be. With additional energy derived from feeding phytoplankton even lower lighting might be possible. The same clam acclimated to higher lighting would grow faster, be healthier and have more intense coloration."
2) "With VHO or Power Compacts just place the clam higher in the tank. Many corals demand the same lighting as clams, anywhere a high light coral does well is fine for a maxima."
3) " Deep tanks (over 22") require high intensity lights for T. maxima and T. crocea placed on the bottom. Shallower tanks will do well with less intense, more evenly distributed lighting. Placing clams higher in the tank is a easy solution to lighting problems in deeper tanks. how to make shelves in a reef"
These are direct quotes from the site that you provided...it seems to me that the MH thing is preferred but by no means absolutely necassary...with adequate VHO lighting and proper placement it seems as though it will do fine...especially with feedin DT's phyto which I have always traditionally used...This site confirms what you said that MH is certainly preferred....thank you for the information...I will keep a close eye on the clam over the next few weeks...is it looks as though I am having a problem I will either carefully move him or as you said return him to the LFS immediatly...

 

[rook]

I think the point is "thrive" vs "survive".
I have heard many who have had maxima survive fine under PC, and place on a rock, high in the tank. But for it to thrive, it will need MH.
If you decide to keep it, which it appears you will, read up a lot about their care and supplimental feeding. With less light the clam will starve over a 6-10 month period unless you adequately feed it.
I am not suggesting the you do keep it, but if you do make sure you give it the best care in the world, or it will not survive either.
Get the book on giant clams and read and reread.

 

[aileena]

Rook what type of clams do you have under 3 - 55 watt pcs??? I use DT's phyto...thats adequate food right??? I dose the tank every day at 5ml or 10ml depending on how the corals look on any givin day...

 

[spsfreak100]

The Tridacna Maxima will survive under VHO's, but it definitaly won't do as well as it would be if placed under halides. Shouldn't we try to mock their natural environments as best as posible? Why Should we place them in anything less than what's recommended? Why risk the life of an innocent creature, by putting them in something that wouldn't be in their original environment?
Here are some quotes from Rob, on EastCoast Clams, from another board debating the subject "Maxima Clams under Florecent Lighting:"
Metal halides are preferred, esspecially for the more light needing clams including Maxima and Crocea. Clams can be kept under VHO and Power Compacts. If you choose other than Metal Halides please keep your clams high in the rockwork. Better if you also feed them DT's or the like.
I have kept both Crocea's and Maxima's under Power Compact without problem. When I moved clams under Metal Halides the growth was quite a bit faster.
Here's his response after the question "Thanks for the info Rob!! In your opinion, since the clams under VHO and PC grew slower, was this detrimental to their health?" was asked:
Well they did grow slower. I did not notice any health issues, but they were very high up in the rockwork. I also had perfect water conditions(if I may say so myself) and there was still 400 watts of Power Compact lighting. I also fed Dt's regularly.
Professional opinion is Metal halides all the way. Power compacts and VHO can be done, with the right amount of lights, and feeding your clams Dt's or another good live phyto is not only a great idea for your clams, but for your whole reef tank.
I think this is an extremely debatable subject. I personally wouldn't keep any clam under anythig but halides. Just because they could live under lower lighting conditions, doesn't mean that they should be placed under them. Clams seem to do best under halides.
Graham

 

[rook]

I agree with Graham. I just want to make sure that if you do keep this, against the better judgements, that you do all that is possible to make sure it survives. And strongly consider adding MH.
I have one squamosa clam on the sand. I feed kent phyto. I am going to start culturing my own phyto soon though.
I am not real familiar with feed requirements of clams myself. But, I know some prefer to remove the clam and feed it in a sperate container, some feed directly at the clam, and some feed the tank as a whole.
I will defer to others who are more experiance, and again suggest a book.
I myself would not keep any clam other than a squamosa in my tank. Derasa get too big, to soon, and also don't like sand as much, and the others need more light than I have.

 

[sammystingray]

aileena, am I losing my mind here? I could have SWORN you had it down in your signature that you have a UV sterilizer running??????
I didn't have time earlier as I was flying through posts, but I made a mental note to come back and mention the UV. Was it removed, or am I crazy?

 

[aileena]

Ya sammy I had the UV on for about 6 months...after everything seemed to be doing good I decided to take it off about 5 months ago and see what the difference was...the fish were exactly the same no ick or parasites or anything the only difference I noticed is a algea boom, but not significant enough for put the UV back on...I decided to keep it though since I will use it when I set up my 75gallon... I will probably run it for the first six months and then take it off, just like my 29g...I think it helps a lot in the first 6 months with parasites and algae...Yesterday I removed it from my list of things on my tank along with an emerald crab because I got rid of the crab last week since it was really knocking stuff over, like my xenia's rock...
anyway the maxima clam is about 3inches long and about 1 and a half inches tall...he is rather small...
I feed phyto like everyone else....
sps freak100 the passage you quoted says, "I have kept both Crocea's and Maxima's under Power Compact without problem. When I moved clams under Metal Halides the growth was quite a bit faster."
"I did not notice any health issues" I can easily add another light to the canopy...I cannot toss out all my VHO stuff and go drop and few hundred on MH...my water quality is perfect...nitrates are a little high at 10-15ppm but clams like that from what I have read...
"Power compacts and VHO can be done, with the right amount of lights, and feeding your clams Dt's or another good live phyto is not only a great idea for your clams, but for your whole reef tank. "
It seems as though 400watts of who is needed by this article...I will change my 430 for a 660 and pay the extra 30$ and add another light...this will bring the total to around 300watts...
I have seen MH lights in my old man new barn...he is crazy when it comes to lights since he is an electrician...in a 40 by 60 barn he has 6 MH lights that are 200watts a piece...that damn barn blinds humans when all those lights are on...its like a tanning booth...Anyway I just think that the evidence points to the conclusion that VHO and PC can be done w/o adverse health effects to the clam...not growing as fast is not a adverse health effect as the article seemed to imply...all marine animals in tanks do not grow as well or as fast as they do in the ocean right?
I see this is going to be a heavily debated issue...what I find amasing is that before I had mushrooms and yellow poylps and I was told my 60 watts of NO wasn't enough...so I found a nice used canopy with VHO's and the ballast and picked it up for 100$ ...now I have a clam and I need to set up a tanning booth...no offense folks but what did people do before MH, it just came out like 5 or 6 years ago...its relatively new on the market...
I would be concerned about blinding my fish with a 200-400 watt MH on a 29 gallon...not to mention half of the water would evaporate in a day...the heat produced would probably melt the seals on the tank...I would need to get several industrial fans just to keep it cool enough...by the time I am done my electric bill is 100$$ a month just to illuminate my fish tank...
There has to be a limit on how much is too much...maybe a 150watt MH with several fans I would consider on my 29...but anything more is kinda crazy in my opinion...what do clams do in the ocean on a cloudy day??

 

[cmack]

I don't wan't to insult anyone, this is just my observation...
I respect the advice I get on this board, especially the sharks..IMO if multiple sharks tell you somethng, it is most likely right. Here the sharks and everyone else seem to be saying you should have MH lighting for the clam you wan't, but yet you don't seem to want to listen to that advice???
You also keep bringing up the fact that you would have to scrap your VHO canopy, could you posibly retro a MH into the canopy? There also seems to be an underlying Money factor...Cost of MH set-up, electricity costs, etc...Maybe you should hold off on the Clam Idea untill you can afford to provide the proper environment for them. Possibly when setting up the 75gal tank plan on putting MH in there and then go with the clams when that tank is stable.
Why make the Clam live in an Unsatisfactory living environment because of your budget?

 

[jonthefb]

the truth is that before metal halide lighting, clams, sps, etc couldnt be kept in home aquaria...it is largely due ot this technology that clam and corla aquaculturing has become available!
and btw, a 175 watt mh retro kit including bulbs, wouldnt cost you more than a hundred bucks.....if you knew where to look...i would look at doing this and still using two of your vho's but use them as actinics...your tank yould be rockiign then and you wouldnt have to worry about the animals you aqre keeping....to keep temp down, go to radio shack and get a 4 inch coolign fan, and mount it inot your canopy, and for 22 bucks, voila, problem solved!
i currently have a 20g reef with 2 65w pc lights and have a 4 inch squamosa, a 3 inch 1st grade maxima, and a gold maxima all on the sandbed...the squamosa is thriving and growing very well, however the growth of the two maximas is quite retarded, even though ca/alk levels are perfect, and i remove them from the system and feed with phyto/zoo every other day...i am in the process of cycling my new 65, and my lighitng for it is 2 250 w mh lights and 2 96 watt VHO actinics....a lot of people would consider this too much ligh, but i want to make sure that the animals i keep in there will no longer only survive, but thrive as well!
anyhow good luck
jon