Define 'Cruel and Unusual Punishment'

lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
several veins in the neck and feet that can be used. 100% usage. They always require a "special sign off" in the hospital,but all the same its a guy on death row.
I am not for any sort of "clean" style death when it comes to death sentences. The more pain/suffering the better. That person/s did not recieve that sentence for playing jump rope and sharing their candy. The crazy arse that murdered the Yale grad student may NOT get the death penalty becase of some nutso theory. I think luring her BACK into her lab and murdering her and then stuffing her into a wall somewhere deserves something other than a cush 3 squares, TV, and unlimited work outs. BIG bubba as a roomie is not bad enough for this guy.
I digress..........anyway find a vein, stick it in him and MOVE on!!!!!
or just like Tizz says....shoot him western style and call it a day.
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
As a child of psychology, I always found it interesting where these illnesses come form. I'm not big on the death penalty myself though. If his main problem is sexual violence, I vote for making him a eunich. Remove the source of the problem then you eliminate the urge for him to commit the ---- itself. Alas, that probably wouldn't work because ---- is a crime of violence not passion. Hard to say what to do in this case. After all, will he really be worried about having an infection or sore veins while he sitting in hell?? But then again, does killing him fix what happened to his victims? No. It does perhaps prevent what happened from happening to others though....
 
reefforbrains

reefforbrains

Active Member
Mob rule does not run our country. This intire thread rambling on about the fiendish ways to deal with a criminal are sickening. My standpoint is not to defend the criminal. It is to defend the process we have in place and the manner in which it is carried out. We have decided to choose as a country to be above this sort of behavior. Not just when it suits us, but in each and every case to behave and carry out our practice of law and dole punishments in ways that we have outlined. Cruel and unusual is not permitted. Sick thoughts about vengence or public displays for revenge is disgusting and embarrassing.
I am not just playing devil's advocate. We have laws and protocals. Not mob rule. I have extreme doubt that it will change anything about the person in question's eventual fate. If anything it will bring awarness to the proccess and outline backup or seal more loopholes in case of future situations that may be similar.
This is a criminal that has been condemed to death. He will still be accountable to that sentence. This is more for going through the motions than for actual merit in his case. This does not however mean that there IS NO merit in his case. He will recieve his punishment but he IS still entitled to his voice to be heard in this situation. We are not just like him, we do not behave at his level nor would I WANT the system to.
He will still die, the system is intact and still working. This is just a part of it we cannot overlook otherwise we might as well overlook EVERYTHING. A little wiggeling on the hook unbless it is deemed to have merit....Which is doubtful. Thats all.
Ok, thats my soapbox.
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
I actually agree with you here. That is why I am not keen on the death penalty. It is kind of like the two wrongs don't make a right thing. Killing him does not erase what happened to the family. Hard to say what the right things is here.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
http:///forum/post/3141644
Mob rule does not run our country. This intire thread rambling on about the fiendish ways to deal with a criminal are sickening. My standpoint is not to defend the criminal. It is to defend the process we have in place and the manner in which it is carried out. We have decided to choose as a country to be above this sort of behavior. Not just when it suits us, but in each and every case to behave and carry out our practice of law and dole punishments in ways that we have outlined. Cruel and unusual is not permitted. Sick thoughts about vengence or public displays for revenge is disgusting and embarrassing.
I am not just playing devil's advocate. We have laws and protocals. Not mob rule. I have extreme doubt that it will change anything about the person in question's eventual fate. If anything it will bring awarness to the proccess and outline backup or seal more loopholes in case of future situations that may be similar.
This is a criminal that has been condemed to death. He will still be accountable to that sentence. This is more for going through the motions than for actual merit in his case. This does not however mean that there IS NO merit in his case. He will recieve his punishment but he IS still entitled to his voice to be heard in this situation. We are not just like him, we do not behave at his level nor would I WANT the system to.
He will still die, the system is intact and still working. This is just a part of it we cannot overlook otherwise we might as well overlook EVERYTHING. A little wiggeling on the hook unbless it is deemed to have merit....Which is doubtful. Thats all.
Ok, thats my soapbox.
With our current court system I wouldn't place any bets on him still dying.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/3141893
I actually agree with you here. That is why I am not keen on the death penalty. It is kind of like the two wrongs don't make a right thing. Killing him does not erase what happened to the family. Hard to say what the right things is here.
If prison were actually a deterrent I would agree. Unfortunately we have seen courts rule inmates have a right to world class gym equipment, air conditioning and even their dirty magazines. I say bring back the chain gangs and make prison a living hell. No TV, Just Educational reading material and decent meals. If the inmate wants to work out let them go fill in pot hole or hoe weeds. Of course the ACLU would wipe out a forest with all the paper they would use filing lawsuits.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by ReefForBrains
http:///forum/post/3141644
Mob rule does not run our country. This intire thread rambling on about the fiendish ways to deal with a criminal are sickening. My standpoint is not to defend the criminal. It is to defend the process we have in place and the manner in which it is carried out. We have decided to choose as a country to be above this sort of behavior. Not just when it suits us, but in each and every case to behave and carry out our practice of law and dole punishments in ways that we have outlined. Cruel and unusual is not permitted. Sick thoughts about vengence or public displays for revenge is disgusting and embarrassing.
I am not just playing devil's advocate. We have laws and protocals. Not mob rule. I have extreme doubt that it will change anything about the person in question's eventual fate. If anything it will bring awarness to the proccess and outline backup or seal more loopholes in case of future situations that may be similar.
This is a criminal that has been condemed to death. He will still be accountable to that sentence. This is more for going through the motions than for actual merit in his case. This does not however mean that there IS NO merit in his case. He will recieve his punishment but he IS still entitled to his voice to be heard in this situation. We are not just like him, we do not behave at his level nor would I WANT the system to.
He will still die, the system is intact and still working. This is just a part of it we cannot overlook otherwise we might as well overlook EVERYTHING. A little wiggeling on the hook unbless it is deemed to have merit....Which is doubtful. Thats all.
Ok, thats my soapbox.
The last thing I read is they are permanently suspending his sentence until further notice. If anyone wants to reinstate his death penalty, it has to go before the Ohio Supreme Court. The reason they couldn't get the needle in was because his veins kept collapsing. They are attributing that to either extensive drug use or dehydration. The scum bag has alraeady stated he didn't use many drugs, so I imagine he found out about the 'dehydration trick' and quit drinking liquids a few days before his sentence. I still don't understand why their only option to administer these drugs was through his arms or legs. Is it 'cruel and unusual punishment' if they stuck the needle in his jugular, because of course that would make him die faster?

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy whatsoever with anyone of this person's caliber when it comes to putting them to death. It's ridiculous that these people sit on Death Row for a minimum of 10 years before their sentence is carried through. Their ambulance chasing lawyers sit around and look for legal miscues to keep them from happening - some witness smiled when the prosecutor talked about the case, some signature wasn't given on one form, etc. That's one of the things I like about foreign countries and their policies on the death penalaty. Found guilty? You got 30 days to show reasonable doubt or your done. Sure, there have been cases where someone on death row has been found innocent due to DNA results, but hey, it's not a perfect system.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Yeah and the DNA issue has been so overplayed and abused it isn't even funny. Sure there were a lot of falsely accused people saved from death row due to DNA evidence WHEN IT WAS FIRST DEVELOPED. Now how many death row inmates are there who weren't convicted using DNA? Probably few if any. The whole DNA thing shouldn't even be a consideration any more as far as arguments against the death penalty. If anything it should strengthen the case for the death penalty because it adds another layer of evidence to prove the person's guilt.
This case reminds me of the one where the guy argued that because he had been on death row for so many years, DUE TO HIS OWN APPEALS, it would be cruel and unusual punishment to kill him. Don't remember if that one worked or not.
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
I really hate that argument that he was innocent but hey it's not a perfect system. I bet you wouldn't be that nonchalant if you were the one set to die and you were innocent. There is a reason we have a trial by jury here. There is a reason that we try to treat people humanely as possible. It's the same reason people from other countries continue to want to live here. Because we treat all people fairly and all people are given the same rights. I'm not a tree hugger and I do believe he should be punished but I just believe that killing someone doesn't necessarily fix any sort of problems. We have an incresing amount of murderers, rapists, thieves, etc. Using the death penalty obviously isn't helping. I certainly believe we can find a better way.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/3141919
I really hate that argument that he was innocent but hey it's not a perfect system. I bet you wouldn't be that nonchalant if you were the one set to die and you were innocent. There is a reason we have a trial by jury here. There is a reason that we try to treat people humanely as possible. It's the same reason people from other countries continue to want to live here. Because we treat all people fairly and all people are given the same rights. I'm not a tree hugger and I do believe he should be punished but I just believe that killing someone doesn't necessarily fix any sort of problems. We have an incresing amount of murderers, rapists, thieves, etc. Using the death penalty obviously isn't helping. I certainly believe we can find a better way.
A scenario could very well arise where I could potentially end up in that situation. But it's doubtful. Why? Becuase I don't put myself in situations where I could get acused of an action that would justify the death penalty. Besides, with today's advanced forensic science, and as Reef stated with pretty much every case that warrants the death penalty, they do extensive DNA testing, it's very doubtful someone would end up on Death Row that didn't deserve it.
Yea, it's great. The US becomes the Murder Capital of the World because of our lax death penalties. Kill someone, ---- an innocent little girl, you get a nice little air conditioned room with full room and board for the rest of your life. Considering these people 'from other countries' previously lived in a carboard box next to a sewage gully, and ate nothing but beans and tortillas, US prisons are the lap of luxury. An Eye For An Eye seems to work in many other countries. How many thefts, murders, and rapes do your hear about in a country like Turkey? Get caught stealing a loaf of bread there, and you get escorted to the main town courtyard and get your hand cut off. If you do get a reduced sentence and are thrown into their prison system, you would wish they'd do you the favor and kill you.
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
uh I'm pretty sure the main draw for our country is not how easy it is to rap-e and pillage.....lol. I didn't say our country was perfect and I certainly do remember saying we should find a better way. Also remember that theft like that in a lot of those countries is due to people starving. I will say that I am proud to live in a country where we try to rise about such animalistic ways of justice like mutilation and help our fellow man (woman). But.....there is a lot less crime in those countries. Maybe that is the best way. Who am I to say?
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3141954
Considering these people 'from other countries' previously lived in a carboard box next to a sewage gully, and ate nothing but beans and tortillas, US prisons are the lap of luxury.
racist....................................................
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3139249
So there's this guy on death row in Ohio who they try and execute by lethal injection, but they couldn't find a vein in his arm big enough to put the needle in, so they halted the execution and deferred it to another day. They apparently get some smaller needles, try a second time, but still can't find a vein. The death row inmate complains it hurts his arm and muscles when they try sticking him with the needle.
So the State has issued a 10 day stay of execution until a resolution can be found. Now this guy's lawyers want to request a permanent stay of execution because they are calling this execution procedure 'cruel and unusual punishment'.
If the guy is on death row, apparently he committed some horrendous crime against another human being. Yet, they want to be compassionate and not cause this scum bag any pain or suffering WHILE THEY ARE TRYING TO KILL HIM. How about the cruel and unusual punishment he most likely inflicted on his victim? Personally I think it's great they botched the first two attempts. This scurge of humanity got strapped on the gurney twice expecting to die, and had to emotionally prepare to die, only to learn it was delayed. That should mess his mind up a little.

(marked in red) They should do that once each month until they actually kill him. In a perfect world...I also vote that the victims should get to chose the method of death.
 
jackri

jackri

Active Member
Originally Posted by alyssia
http:///forum/post/3139258
I vote for killing him the way he killed his victim.

Well only with a broomstick. I have no remorse for the

[hr]
criminals. It's cruel and unusual what they did to their victims and families.
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Wow.
I guess what happens to a society when it lowers itself to the basest levels of its criminal element is no longer a question.
Let the rivers run red.
 
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