Dinosaurs and the Bible

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2514429
Yahweh is the holiest of names for God in the Jewish language. It's typically translated "Jehovah" in early English texts.
The OT is full of different names for Yahweh. The Jewish people used different titles for God depending on which of His characteristics they were referring too. Adonai means "Lord", El Shaddai means "God, all sufficient", "provider", etc. There are dozens of different names of God in the OT, so we have to look further than these names describing the Trinity.
Neither name, from the Hebrew, implies the masculine or feminine side of God.
I disagree, I think the one I mentioned also means the "the breasted one" or something like that... but some of the characteristics described within that name suggest feminine qualities... as do I think its Adonai that has some masculine characteristics...
But I don't equate God as having gender as we know it here... its uneccessary and the though of it IMO gives the thinker a limited perspective of all that God is..
As far as the fall... the more I think about it I am unsure... Satan could have fell before the creation of man, and the rest of the 1/3 of angels fell after man.. So I guess Satan was by himself for a while.

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2514508
As far as the fall... the more I think about it I am unsure... Satan could have fell before the creation of man, and the rest of the 1/3 of angels fell after man.. So I guess Satan was by himself for a while.
As I understand it, Michael, Gabriel and Lucifer were each in charge of 1/3 of the angels in heaven. When Lucifer rebelled the angels under his charge also rebelled. They fell at the same time, as I see it. Before the creation of mankind.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2514432
What led you to believe this occured after the creation of man?
So okay... I think Satan fell before man was created... Once man was created .. Satan tempted man..
-Side note- about dinosaurs... Satan appeard before Adam as a serpent...The Bible says that seperents once were legged creatures and God cursed them after this...Could this be a reference to dinosaurs?

Once man was out on his own... Angels taught man the "secrets of the universe"... such as fire, weapons, how to make metal objects, cultivate the land, etc... then angels wanted the experiences of man and began to form relationships with them... they created offspring.. and bad things happened... there is more to the story, but these are the reasons for the great flood... to rid the earth of all the bad stuff that was going on... The angels went to Enoch who was the holiest man, and asked him to intercede and be kind of like their lawyer to God... God gave his judgement and sent them down with Satan..

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2514508
I disagree, I think the one I mentioned also means the "the breasted one" or something like that... but some of the characteristics described within that name suggest feminine qualities... as do I think its Adonai that has some masculine characteristics...
.
Here is some info on the names of God you mentioned. (He has many more)
Not necessarily feminin as I have breasts, just not mammaries.
Adonai... http://www.gospeltrail.com/Study/God/adonai.htm
El Shaddai I found here... http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Nam...G-d/El/el.html

 

[mfp1016]

Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2514097
According to a physics researcher friend of mine, in the nucleus of an atom the laws of thermodynamics may not even apply - energy can go both ways. It's beyond me

Thats what I am saying. The laws of thermo should have never been brought up as its just not relevant or applicable to this topic.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by mfp1016
http:///forum/post/2514930
Thats what I am saying. The laws of thermo should have never been brought up as its just not relevant or applicable to this topic.
Well, as I said, if you believe the Universe is a closed system then the 2nd Law clearly applies.

 

[star master]

Originally Posted by FireRescue
http:///forum/post/2507298
God created dinosaurs to fertilize the earth. You might ask why when God can do whatever he wants? Just like us God likes different things and just like me have always been fasinated with dinosaurs. They served their purpose and no longer were needed.
I must note; I couldn't agree any more with this statement but to brig up another point. when demons came to earth they mated with human women and that is fact from the bible itself which in turn is how dinosaurs came to existance. God was so angry that he destroyed the demonic offspring for they were not of the holy spirit as he intended. It also says in reelations that this will happen again except god will destoy them once and for all in the burning lake of fire.

 

[fishy.....]

Wow interesting insight.....
So dinosaurs are the product of human women mating with demons....... Now I have heard it all.....

 

[wattsupdoc]

Originally Posted by Star Master
http:///forum/post/2515115
I must note; I couldn't agree any more with this statement but to brig up another point. when demons came to earth they mated with human women and that is fact from the bible itself which in turn is how dinosaurs came to existance. God was so angry that he destroyed the demonic offspring for they were not of the holy spirit as he intended. It also says in reelations that this will happen again except god will destoy them once and for all in the burning lake of fire.

Where exactly is this at????

 

[lexluethar]

Originally Posted by Star Master
http:///forum/post/2515115
I must note; I couldn't agree any more with this statement but to brig up another point. when demons came to earth they mated with human women and that is fact from the bible itself which in turn is how dinosaurs came to existance. God was so angry that he destroyed the demonic offspring for they were not of the holy spirit as he intended. It also says in reelations that this will happen again except god will destoy them once and for all in the burning lake of fire.
I would love to see what passage that is from, because it isn't from any bible i've read.

 

[mfp1016]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2514933
Well, as I said, if you believe the Universe is a closed system then the 2nd Law clearly applies.
I contend that it doesn't. Laws of thermo are based on human understanding, observation, etc, they are local, and pretty much only applicable at our level. When it comes to the nucleus they stop working, and when it comes to various models of the universe they stop working.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Star Master
http:///forum/post/2515115
I must note; I couldn't agree any more with this statement but to brig up another point. when demons came to earth they mated with human women and that is fact from the bible itself which in turn is how dinosaurs came to existance. God was so angry that he destroyed the demonic offspring for they were not of the holy spirit as he intended. It also says in reelations that this will happen again except god will destoy them once and for all in the burning lake of fire.
Please give Book, chapter and verse.
That is NOT fact.
I suspect you are referring to Genesis chapter 6. Son's of God most likely refers to the decendents of Abel, not fallen angels. Furthermore, the Nephilim offspring are said to have been "the heroes of old, men of renown...".
Yipes. Please give scripture to back up these facts you are saying the Bible teaches.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by mfp1016
http:///forum/post/2516067
I contend that it doesn't. Laws of thermo are based on human understanding, observation, etc, they are local, and pretty much only applicable at our level. When it comes to the nucleus they stop working, and when it comes to various models of the universe they stop working.
If that is the case, which it very well could be, then it is no longer a scientific law.

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by Star Master
http:///forum/post/2515115
I must note; I couldn't agree any more with this statement but to brig up another point. when demons came to earth they mated with human women and that is fact from the bible itself which in turn is how dinosaurs came to existance. God was so angry that he destroyed the demonic offspring for they were not of the holy spirit as he intended. It also says in reelations that this will happen again except god will destoy them once and for all in the burning lake of fire.
Um, can I suggest you visit a different church to get a second opinion on this issue. Sounds like someone has led you astray.

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2516179
I suspect you are referring to Genensis chapter 6. Son's of God most likely refers to the decendents of Abel, not fallen angels. Furthermore, the Nephilim offspring are said to have been "the heroes of old, men of renown...".
Yipes. Please give scripture to back up these facts you are saying the Bible teaches.
I took the time to look up Gen. 6:2
http://www.hebrewoldtestament.com/B01C006.htm
"that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose."
The Hebrew word used is elohiym. Below is Strongs concordance for the use of that word as it relates to English.
430 'elohiym el-o-heem' plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:--angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty. http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strong...on&isindex=430
I found no suggestion whatsoever that dinosaurs were a result of demons mating with human women.
I would suggest asking a Rabbi for his translation.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Star Master
http:///forum/post/2515115
I must note; I couldn't agree any more with this statement but to brig up another point. when demons came to earth they mated with human women and that is fact from the bible itself which in turn is how dinosaurs came to existance. God was so angry that he destroyed the demonic offspring for they were not of the holy spirit as he intended. It also says in reelations that this will happen again except god will destoy them once and for all in the burning lake of fire.
This is partially accurate according to Book of Enoch, which was is not a cannonized book of the Bible, but widely distributed and read by early Christians as really thousands of years earlier. The beings were actually Angels, I guess a good modern analogy of their roles were kind of like that movie with Nick Cage. They desired the same things as humans, because they felt like God gave them more freedoms and experiences... (don't quote me on that, I'll have to go back and reverify)- however, it is said that they had relations with women and created "Giants" not dinosaurs. The book also give a decription of them and why they were not of "God's ways" and bad.
There is some references made in Genesis to some of the things mentioned here.. in Genesis Enoch is mentioned only in a verse or two, he also is mentioned in other parts of the Bible, and even by Jesus... (I'm pretty sure of this, but not 100%) They say Enoch was the most divine or righteous human being...but the Bible doesn't go into it much, but he is the only one that I believe actually is said to have walked with God... The Book of Enoch goes into much detail about the fall of Angels, their roles, and some of the precursers to the Flood and things of that nature.

 

[mfp1016]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2516181
If that is the case, which it very well could be, then it is no longer a scientific law.
Exactly right Journeyman, very good. Science requires just as much faith as any religion. I'd go so far to say that at least religion has thousands of years of history and some degree of maturation. Within the last 100 years the nucleus has been "changed" 4-5 times, hell, the Bohr/Einstein debates weren't even settled until the 40's/50's. Though you could probably make a very good case that they still aren't (just conjecture, I haven't heard all the audio tape of their conversations, but I'm hoping to very soon). Science is but a baby in the "understanding the universe" game.
I have posted this quote before, but in the heat of argument it fell by the wayside.
Freeman Dyson said, "Science and religion are two windows that people look through, trying to understand the big universe outside, trying to understand why we are here. The two windows give different views, but they look out at the same universe. Both views are one-sided, neither is complete. Both leave out essential features of the real world. And both are worthy of respect.
Trouble arises when either science or religion claims universal jurisdiction, when either religious or scientific dogma claims to be infallible."

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by mfp1016
http:///forum/post/2518565
...
Freeman Dyson said, "Science and religion are two windows that people look through, trying to understand the big universe outside, trying to understand why we are here. The two windows give different views, but they look out at the same universe. Both views are one-sided, neither is complete. Both leave out essential features of the real world. And both are worthy of respect.
Trouble arises when either science or religion claims universal jurisdiction, when either religious or scientific dogma claims to be infallible."
Wow, good quote.
I taught my students similar, though not nearly as eloquently. I explained to them that I used my education in Science to study the world I believe God created.

 

[geridoc]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2518707
Wow, good quote.
I taught my students similar, though not nearly as eloquently. I explained to them that I used my education in Science to study the world I believe God created.
Good and fair, but the problems occur when the magisteria of science and religion overlap, such as in the discussion of evolution and what should be taught about it in public schools. The seemingly unending efforts of radical fundamentalists (see, I'm learning) to impress purely religious views onto science instruction inevitably leads to unresolvable conflict since science deals with the measurable, while religion is, by definition, concerned with the unmeasurable. Just my 2cents.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2518774
Good and fair, but the problems occur when the magisteria of science and religion overlap, such as in the discussion of evolution and what should be taught about it in public schools. The seemingly unending efforts of radical fundamentalists (see, I'm learning) to impress purely religious views onto science instruction inevitably leads to unresolvable conflict since science deals with the measurable, while religion is, by definition, concerned with the unmeasurable. Just my 2cents.
For the record, I was a youth minister, not a school teacher. Re-reading my post I needed to clarify that.
Honestly, I think you'll find, though there are certainly exceptions, that the typical Fundamentalist doesn't want to exclude the teaching of Evolution. They do, however, wish it's weaknesses be taught as well. In addition, many want the theory of Intelligent Design to be taught.
I agree with your post. Fundamentalists wishing to force a purely literal translation is an issue.