Dinosaurs and the Bible

dragonzim

Active Member
Originally Posted by Clown Boy
http:///forum/post/2508737
Does that matter? You still get the point. If the earth and moon was millions of years old, life couldn't exist.
Of course it matters, since it disproves your theory. How is it that life just couldnt exist if the world were millions of years old?
 

reefreak29

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
http:///forum/post/2510237
in response to the original question
Behemoth has the following attributes according to Job 40:15-24
It “eats grass like an ox.”
It “moves his tail like a cedar.” (In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.”)
Its “bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.”
“He is the first of the ways of God.”
“He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.”
Some bibles and study bibles will translate the word “behemoth” as “elephant” or “hippopotamus.” Others will put a note at the edge or bottom of the page, stating that behemoth was probably an elephant or a hippopotamus. Although an elephant or hippopotamus can eat grass (or lie in a covert of reeds and marsh), neither an elephant or a hippopotamus has a “tail like a cedar” (that is, a tail like a large, tapered tree trunk). In your kid’s dinosaur book you will find lots of animals that have “tails like a cedar.”
We would expect behemoth to be a large land animal whose bones are like beams of bronze and so forth, so whatever a behemoth is, it is large. A key phrase is “He is the first of the ways of God.” This phrase in the original Hebrew implied that behemoth was the biggest animal created. Although an elephant or a hippopotamus are big, they are less than one-tenth the size of a Brachiosaurus, the largest (complete) dinosaur ever discovered.[1] A Brachiosaurus could therefore easily be described as “the first of the ways of God.”

THATS PRETTY MUCH WHAT I SAID
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by LexLuethar
http:///forum/post/2511085
but i do know that they have not found fossil evidence directly linking man to ape. I know they have found some ape bones that seemed to have evolved from apes, but nothing like a timeline effect of ape, walking on two legs, then man. I know they have some pieces but no the whole puzzle. If it was something that happen on a grand scale there would definately be more fossil evidence.
I know i'm going back and forth because i see evidence (or theorys) that i feel support / debunk both.
Les: The evolution of human beings is another topic, but to set the record straight - "they" have never found ape bones that are thought to be progenitors of mankind, but there have been many findings of hominid bones that are felt, based on many lines of evidence, to be somewhere on the human tree.
The debates that you see in the evolution literature are not about whether "homo sapiens" evolved, but about the exact relationship between the fossils that have been found, and h. sapiens. Many non-scientists believe that such debates reflect disagreement about the evolutionary origins of mankind, but the opposite is true: there is little disagreement on this point, only on the details.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/2511131
Sure sounds like a crocodile to me..
Crocodiles are not plant eaters... and a cedar is the largest type of tree... it doesn't fit... I've never actually researched it myself, but there is a lot of evidence suggesting man and dinos lived together, and that dinos never actually ruled the Earth as some think...
The Bible does mention dinosaurs though it never actually uses the word “dinosaur.” Instead, it uses the Hebrew word tanniyn (pronounced tan-neen; Strong’s #08577). Tanniyn is translated a few different ways in our English Bibles; sometimes it’s “sea monster,” sometimes it’s “serpent.” It is most commonly translated “dragon.” The tanniyn appear to have been some sort of giant reptile. These creatures are mentioned nearly thirty times in the Old Testament and are found both on land and in the water.
In addition to mentioning these giant reptiles in general nearly thirty times throughout the Old Testament. Also, Petroglyphs, artifacts and even little clay figurines found in North America resemble modern depictions of dinosaurs. Rock carvings in South America depict men riding Diplodocus-like creatures and, amazingly, bear the familiar images of Triceratops-, Pterodactyl- and Tyrannosaurus Rex-like creatures. Roman mosaics, Mayan pottery and Babylonian city walls all testify to man’s trans-cultural, geographically-unbounded fascination with these creatures.
 

socal57che

Active Member

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2510811
True, but I would only set something free that I am 100% confident in.
Obviously Adam was not 100% ready. It seemed like before they sinned and were pure, they still deeply loved God. Perhaps, not as much?
I disagree here. How do you really know if Adam's love is true if not given the choice to do something wrong. It's like saying that my fish really like me because they don't swim back to the ocean.
 

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2511504
I disagree here. How do you really know if Adam's love is true if not given the choice to do something wrong. It's like saying that my fish really like me because they don't swim back to the ocean.
It is true, like you wouldn't know the 'good times' in life if it weren't for the bad times. However, for me at least, it falls back onto God purposely designing flaws into humans, I just can't see it. It really seemed like God wanted a 'perfect' world in the beginning. Then my other issue is God designing creatures of pure sin, like lions/sharks/alligators, etc.
If God did create that wicked serpent, it was a test for Adam. A test, I'm almost positive, God wanted Adam to pass, not fail
. Then perhaps, God has cast Earth aside and started somewhere else? An explanation for aliens?
 

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2511853
It is true, like you wouldn't know the 'good times' in life if it weren't for the bad times. However, for me at least, it falls back onto God purposely designing flaws into humans, I just can't see it. It really seemed like God wanted a 'perfect' world in the beginning. Then my other issue is God designing creatures of pure sin, like lions/sharks/alligators, etc.
If God did create that wicked serpent, it was a test for Adam. A test, I'm almost positive, God wanted Adam to pass, not fail
. Then perhaps, God has cast Earth aside and started somewhere else? An explanation for aliens?
God created angels. Some angels serve a single purpose, which is to praise God 24/7. God wants man to love Him because man wants to, not because man has to.
The wicked serpent as you put it is a misconception. Satan was banished to earth. Satan posessed the serpent. (there is an ancient story that is still told in some parts of the world concerning the serpent, Satan and songbirds)
It's not the serpent that is wicked, but Satan.
Sin means falling short of God's glory. Not necessarily wickedness. Lions, sharks and alligators do not sin as man does. God's kingdom was made for man, not animals.
 

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2511900
God created angels. Some angels serve a single purpose, which is to praise God 24/7. God wants man to love Him because man wants to, not because man has to.
That seems a bit hypocritical? If God was all about 'the choice' to love him, why are their Angels praising him 24/7? Shouldn't the angels be there only if they want too? (Perhaps I'm overlooking that humans and angels are no way alike).
Originally Posted by socal57che

http:///forum/post/2511900
The wicked serpent as you put it is a misconception. Satan was banished to earth. Satan posessed the serpent. (there is an ancient story that is still told in some parts of the world concerning the serpent, Satan and songbirds)
It's not the serpent that is wicked, but Satan.
Sin means falling short of God's glory. Not necessarily wickedness. Lions, sharks and alligators do not sin as man does. God's kingdom was made for man, not animals.
That still doesn't explain why Adam was not strong enough to resist (in that case) Satan. I am very unfamiliar with the origins of Satan, but it would seem something God would create, would be stronger then the temptations of Satan?
 

socal57che

Active Member
Lucifer was one of the three highest ranking angels in heaven. Michael and Gabriel were, as far as I can tell, equals with Lucifer. Lucifer was beautiful, BTW. Yes, God created Lucifer.
All angels are not equal. Different orders of angels have different jobs.
This is the whole reason for mankind. God wanted to be loved and worshipped by a willing participant who had the choice not to. Therefore, God creates man. The angels were simply made for a different purpose. Lucifer was cast down from heaven for rebelling against God. He took one third of the angels in heaven with him. Lucifer's pride led to his downfall, so pride was actually the first (or original) sin.
Many are unable to resist Satan (Lucifer). Alcohol, drugs, pornography, hate, war, the list goes on and on. These are Satans tools of destruction for the human soul. Satan hates God. God loves man, therefore Satan hates man.
 

aquaknight

Active Member
So then, if God himself is 'imperfect' and he created bad angels, (Or what's the explanation for Lucifer then?) how can he expect us to 'perfect?' We can only be as good as our creator is. Just like the robots we build. Their faults come from design errors made by us.
 

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2512144
So then, if God himself is 'imperfect' and he created bad angels, (Or what's the explanation for Lucifer then?) how can he expect us to 'perfect?' We can only be as good as our creator is. Just like the robots we build. Their faults come from design errors made by us.
Why God made Lucifer I do not know. I believe someday I will know why, but at that time it won't matter. Many questions remain unanswered. The lack of answers does not make me question God, but to want to know Him better. I believe that the Bible is the living Word of God so I read the Bible and try to learn as much as possible. The changes that God has made in my life leave no question whatsoever that He does exist, is Almighty and infallible. I feel God working in my life.
I give answers regarding my faith when I have them, but sometimes not having the answers reminds me that it is by faith that I live. (which I did not do before giving my life to His son)
 

aquaknight

Active Member
Very true, there definitely isn't answers for everything from anywhere. I really appreciate the conversation back and forth. Definitely got some things spinning around my head out.

Time to go watch the shuttle punch a hole through the gods lol.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2511070
This is a common misconception of the laws of thermodynamics, which do not say that things tend towards disorder. Thermodynamics states that, in a closed system, in the absence of energy input, energy tends to dissipate. However, we are not part of a closed system, and energy is constantly being put into the system (think sunlight, for example), so there is nothing in thermodynamics that makes the appearance and evolution of life either impossible or unlikely.
I would disagree a couple of times here.
First, granted science books are always being re-written, but back when I learned the Laws of Thermodynamincs the 2nd Law was the "Law of Entropy". I believe Clausius himself coined the term "Entropy" to expand upon his formula for the 2nd Law. Clausius further said "In an isolated system, a process can occur only if it increases the total entropy of the system" in regards to the 2nd Law. He further stated "The entropy of the universe tends to a maximum".
Now, where it gets fun to discuss is in regards to whether we are in an open of closed system. I would argue the entire Universe, all we know, is in reality a closed system.
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2512215
I would disagree a couple of times here.
First, granted science books are always being re-written, but back when I learned the Laws of Thermodynamincs the 2nd Law was the "Law of Entropy". I believe Clausius himself coined the term "Entropy" to expand upon his formula for the 2nd Law. Clausius further said "In an isolated system, a process can occur only if it increases the total entropy of the system" in regards to the 2nd Law. He further stated "The entropy of the universe tends to a maximum".
Now, where it gets fun to discuss is in regards to whether we are in an open of closed system. I would argue the entire Universe, all we know, is in reality a closed system.
The universe is a closed system, but that doesn't rule out local discontinuities. Doesn't' a mature tomato have more energy and organization than the seed it grew from? Indeed, life is little more, thermodynamically, than the expenditure of energy to maintain a system in an organized state. When that life ceases, energy is no longer transferred from sources (food), and death occurs. That's why a cadaver becomes cold - energy is no longer being transferred, and the energy (heat) is dissipated. There is nothing in second law that makes life unlikely, only that when outside energy is no longer available, life ceases.
 

dragonzim

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2511853
Then my other issue is God designing creatures of pure sin, like lions/sharks/alligators, etc.
Wow, I dont think I've ever seen a more presumptive comment than to think that Lions, Sharks and Alligators are creature of pure sin. Where the heck did you get that idea? These animals are apex predators and serve a very useful and necessary function in the ecosystems in which they live.
 

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by DragonZim
http:///forum/post/2512498
Wow, I dont think I've ever seen a more presumptive comment than to think that Lions, Sharks and Alligators are creature of pure sin. Where the heck did you get that idea? These animals are apex predators and serve a very useful and necessary function in the ecosystems in which they live.
I am fully aware of their necessity in the ecosystem. I said that because one of the links posted says that before Adam sinned, "all the humans and animals lived in harmony, eating only plants." I found that is impossible because you can't feed a lion/shark/gators plants and expect them to live. So I drew that the killing they do now, is indeed a sin, and I was wondering how God could make such creatures. Because then, if God didn't not intend for them to be this way, they must have "evolved" to what they are today.
Link:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp
 

clown boy

Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2512265
The universe is a closed system, but that doesn't rule out local discontinuities. Doesn't' a mature tomato have more energy and organization than the seed it grew from? Indeed, life is little more, thermodynamically, than the expenditure of energy to maintain a system in an organized state. When that life ceases, energy is no longer transferred from sources (food), and death occurs. That's why a cadaver becomes cold - energy is no longer being transferred, and the energy (heat) is dissipated. There is nothing in second law that makes life unlikely, only that when outside energy is no longer available, life ceases.
Actually, this is an argument for Evolution. Yes, it took energy to make that tomato, but did that tomato happen because of random chance? No. It happened because of blueprints laid down by either an accident, or an intelligent Creator.
 
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