J
jessed244
Guest
We dont have a machine like that at the grocery store, but we have local spring water place. where you can fill a jug for 25 cents (and its drinking water) So is this good?? Thanks
Distilled Water?
- Thread starter maduncan
- Start date
bang guy
Moderator
Originally Posted by jessed244
http:///forum/post/2515367
We dont have a machine like that at the grocery store, but we have local spring water place. where you can fill a jug for 25 cents (and its drinking water) So is this good?? Thanks
No. Without testing this water you have no idea what's in it. It could have .9ppm copper for all you know.
http:///forum/post/2515367
We dont have a machine like that at the grocery store, but we have local spring water place. where you can fill a jug for 25 cents (and its drinking water) So is this good?? Thanks
No. Without testing this water you have no idea what's in it. It could have .9ppm copper for all you know.
bang guy
Moderator
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2515322
I mean 20 years ago people did not have all these high upgrade options how did they do it ?
Here's a question I can answer!!
We had many many reef animals that just could not be kept. The temperature levels you see in the old aquarium book - 75F-78F, that came up because animals died slower at those temperatures, not because it was better for them.
It was rough back then.
http:///forum/post/2515322
I mean 20 years ago people did not have all these high upgrade options how did they do it ?
Here's a question I can answer!!
We had many many reef animals that just could not be kept. The temperature levels you see in the old aquarium book - 75F-78F, that came up because animals died slower at those temperatures, not because it was better for them.
It was rough back then.
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2515269
I bought the meter after I purchased my RO unit. It is the perfect instrument to tell when it's the exact time to change out your RO membrane. No guessing mean you don't have to change it early just to be sure.
It has a high & low range so I can use it to give a precise Salinity reading as well.
Thank you, that I can understand!
http:///forum/post/2515269
I bought the meter after I purchased my RO unit. It is the perfect instrument to tell when it's the exact time to change out your RO membrane. No guessing mean you don't have to change it early just to be sure.
It has a high & low range so I can use it to give a precise Salinity reading as well.
Thank you, that I can understand!
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2515298
If your source water has a TDS of zero then you know exactly what is going into your aquarium system. Sulfur IS part of all salt mixes.
Generallt speaking most of the impurities in tap water are terrible. Copper, Silicates, and Phosphates, etc.
Agree/but disagree ~ again, its a matter of perspective. phosphate for example might be terrible in a SW aquarium, but plants/algae would argue with you that it is a terrible thing. Second, without some of the TDS contained in tap water, you nor I would be here to be having this discussion. Also because of safe drinking water standards, I would have to argue that phosphate is not present in tap water in sufficient quantities to cause an algae bloom. There are indeed some terrible things in tap water, for example most people don't realize that drinking water is allowed to contain arsnic, and I don't think that any living thing would argue with that being considered terrible. And while sulfer may be part of mixes, the point I was trying to make was, do salts contain all the dissolved solids (and in sufficient quantities) to support life? Which raises the question - if your true goal is absolutely pure water, why not use a distiller instead of a RO unit? If you compare prices on an RO unit vs. a distiller, it becomes pretty obvious that there is a reason distilled water is different from RO water, even RO/DI. Appreciate the feedback.
http:///forum/post/2515298
If your source water has a TDS of zero then you know exactly what is going into your aquarium system. Sulfur IS part of all salt mixes.
Generallt speaking most of the impurities in tap water are terrible. Copper, Silicates, and Phosphates, etc.
Agree/but disagree ~ again, its a matter of perspective. phosphate for example might be terrible in a SW aquarium, but plants/algae would argue with you that it is a terrible thing. Second, without some of the TDS contained in tap water, you nor I would be here to be having this discussion. Also because of safe drinking water standards, I would have to argue that phosphate is not present in tap water in sufficient quantities to cause an algae bloom. There are indeed some terrible things in tap water, for example most people don't realize that drinking water is allowed to contain arsnic, and I don't think that any living thing would argue with that being considered terrible. And while sulfer may be part of mixes, the point I was trying to make was, do salts contain all the dissolved solids (and in sufficient quantities) to support life? Which raises the question - if your true goal is absolutely pure water, why not use a distiller instead of a RO unit? If you compare prices on an RO unit vs. a distiller, it becomes pretty obvious that there is a reason distilled water is different from RO water, even RO/DI. Appreciate the feedback.
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by fishyCPA
http:///forum/post/2516106
So, question of the hour...if we don't buy water from the LFS (and not RO/DI), what is the best water to buy?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that RO/DI or any type of RO water is bad. I understand perfectly well the desire to remove undesirable Dissolved solids. I'm simply questioning whether 0TDS, a goal that is perfectly obtainable with a good water distiller (sells for anywhere from $1200 on up), is truly a desirable goal. By all means purchase RO, even RO/DI from whatever local source you have (I do). If you truly desire 0 TDS, than used distilled(I personally wouldn't).
http:///forum/post/2516106
So, question of the hour...if we don't buy water from the LFS (and not RO/DI), what is the best water to buy?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that RO/DI or any type of RO water is bad. I understand perfectly well the desire to remove undesirable Dissolved solids. I'm simply questioning whether 0TDS, a goal that is perfectly obtainable with a good water distiller (sells for anywhere from $1200 on up), is truly a desirable goal. By all means purchase RO, even RO/DI from whatever local source you have (I do). If you truly desire 0 TDS, than used distilled(I personally wouldn't).
bang guy
Moderator
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2516095
Agree/but disagree ~ again, its a matter of perspective. phosphate for example might be terrible in a SW aquarium, but plants/algae would argue with you that it is a terrible thing.
Because Phosphate is in all fish food there is a constant suppy going in. The typical aquarium needs to somehow export the excess through an algae scrubber, water changes, etc. Otherwise it will build up. If it's already in the water then it makes water changes less effective. I only have an RO, no DI. This means that I add some phosphate when I do water changes. For my system this isn't a problem because the large amount of algae I harvest exports a lot phosphate and Nitrates. Many reef systems don't have that luxury. Phosphate inhibits coral growth severly. Yes, some phosphate is required to build protein but any excess limits coral growth.
Second, without some of the TDS contained in tap water, you nor I would be here to be having this discussion. Also because of safe drinking water standards, I would have to argue that phosphate is not present in tap water in sufficient quantities to cause an algae bloom.
My tap has Phosphate, Nitrate, and Silicates. During the Spring runoff there's a very high Phosphate level. A simple test will tell you about your tap water.
Just curious, what impurity in tap water do believe must be in tap water for us to exist? I believe we receive most of our nutrients through food, not through our water.
There are indeed some terrible things in tap water, for example most people don't realize that drinking water is allowed to contain arsnic, and I don't think that any living thing would argue with that being considered terrible.
The arsenic levels in tap water are too low to be a concern for an aquarium. This is not always true for copper though.
And while sulfer may be part of mixes, the point I was trying to make was, do salts contain all the dissolved solids (and in sufficient quantities) to support life?
No. You must feed your fish and provide light for photosynthetic animals. Other than that modern salt mixes do have all of the trace elements needed to simulate natural salt water. Some elements like Carbonate need to be supplemented between water changes if they are consumed quickly.
Which raises the question - if your true goal is absolutely pure water, why not use a distiller instead of a RO unit? If you compare prices on an RO unit vs. a distiller, it becomes pretty obvious that there is a reason distilled water is different from RO water, even RO/DI. Appreciate the feedback.
Tripple distilled water would work fine but it's overkill. I don't use pure water for my system, it typically has TDS readings between 8 and 15. I do know that the TDS are made up of Phosphates and Silicates and I know my system can handle the small amount added during water changes and topoffs. Many systems cannot export Phosphate fast enough. So, if they added even more by using tap water then the Phosphate leves will slowly rise to the point where hard corals will begin to suffer.
http:///forum/post/2516095
Agree/but disagree ~ again, its a matter of perspective. phosphate for example might be terrible in a SW aquarium, but plants/algae would argue with you that it is a terrible thing.
Because Phosphate is in all fish food there is a constant suppy going in. The typical aquarium needs to somehow export the excess through an algae scrubber, water changes, etc. Otherwise it will build up. If it's already in the water then it makes water changes less effective. I only have an RO, no DI. This means that I add some phosphate when I do water changes. For my system this isn't a problem because the large amount of algae I harvest exports a lot phosphate and Nitrates. Many reef systems don't have that luxury. Phosphate inhibits coral growth severly. Yes, some phosphate is required to build protein but any excess limits coral growth.
Second, without some of the TDS contained in tap water, you nor I would be here to be having this discussion. Also because of safe drinking water standards, I would have to argue that phosphate is not present in tap water in sufficient quantities to cause an algae bloom.
My tap has Phosphate, Nitrate, and Silicates. During the Spring runoff there's a very high Phosphate level. A simple test will tell you about your tap water.
Just curious, what impurity in tap water do believe must be in tap water for us to exist? I believe we receive most of our nutrients through food, not through our water.
There are indeed some terrible things in tap water, for example most people don't realize that drinking water is allowed to contain arsnic, and I don't think that any living thing would argue with that being considered terrible.
The arsenic levels in tap water are too low to be a concern for an aquarium. This is not always true for copper though.
And while sulfer may be part of mixes, the point I was trying to make was, do salts contain all the dissolved solids (and in sufficient quantities) to support life?
No. You must feed your fish and provide light for photosynthetic animals. Other than that modern salt mixes do have all of the trace elements needed to simulate natural salt water. Some elements like Carbonate need to be supplemented between water changes if they are consumed quickly.
Which raises the question - if your true goal is absolutely pure water, why not use a distiller instead of a RO unit? If you compare prices on an RO unit vs. a distiller, it becomes pretty obvious that there is a reason distilled water is different from RO water, even RO/DI. Appreciate the feedback.
Tripple distilled water would work fine but it's overkill. I don't use pure water for my system, it typically has TDS readings between 8 and 15. I do know that the TDS are made up of Phosphates and Silicates and I know my system can handle the small amount added during water changes and topoffs. Many systems cannot export Phosphate fast enough. So, if they added even more by using tap water then the Phosphate leves will slowly rise to the point where hard corals will begin to suffer.
bang guy
Moderator
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2516125
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that RO/DI or any type of RO water is bad. I understand perfectly well the desire to remove undesirable Dissolved solids. I'm simply questioning whether 0TDS, a goal that is perfectly obtainable with a good water distiller (sells for anywhere from $1200 on up), is truly a desirable goal. By all means purchase RO, even RO/DI from whatever local source you have (I do). If you truly desire 0 TDS, than used distilled(I personally wouldn't).
A RO/DI will provide 0 TDS and can be obtained for under $200. Why spend $1200?
http:///forum/post/2516125
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that RO/DI or any type of RO water is bad. I understand perfectly well the desire to remove undesirable Dissolved solids. I'm simply questioning whether 0TDS, a goal that is perfectly obtainable with a good water distiller (sells for anywhere from $1200 on up), is truly a desirable goal. By all means purchase RO, even RO/DI from whatever local source you have (I do). If you truly desire 0 TDS, than used distilled(I personally wouldn't).
A RO/DI will provide 0 TDS and can be obtained for under $200. Why spend $1200?
sk8shorty01
Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2516165
A RO/DI will provide 0 TDS and can be obtained for under $200. Why spend $1200?
Very true because I get 0 TDS from my RO/DI unit. I think the reason most people strive for 0 TDS is because it puts you in control of your system, rather than your system in control of you. It is always easier to add something into your system than to take it out. Think about it this way, if there isnt enough of something you can just take out a half gallon of water, add it and make sure it is thoroughly dissolved, then re-introduce the water (or you can dose straight into the system with some things) but if you had to much of something, you have to make new water that matches all the salt levels, pull out your amount, and then put new water in. I think the main point is that it might not be the best thing for corals and other live stock to live in (the ocean takes the cake) but it is a lot better than the alternative of tap water that could be laced with poisons. It is the best we can supply for the animals with what we know (and technology) at this time. 20 years from now, everyone will probably be wondering how we could keep anything alive in our systems because of all the advances so its all kind of the same thing.
http:///forum/post/2516165
A RO/DI will provide 0 TDS and can be obtained for under $200. Why spend $1200?
Very true because I get 0 TDS from my RO/DI unit. I think the reason most people strive for 0 TDS is because it puts you in control of your system, rather than your system in control of you. It is always easier to add something into your system than to take it out. Think about it this way, if there isnt enough of something you can just take out a half gallon of water, add it and make sure it is thoroughly dissolved, then re-introduce the water (or you can dose straight into the system with some things) but if you had to much of something, you have to make new water that matches all the salt levels, pull out your amount, and then put new water in. I think the main point is that it might not be the best thing for corals and other live stock to live in (the ocean takes the cake) but it is a lot better than the alternative of tap water that could be laced with poisons. It is the best we can supply for the animals with what we know (and technology) at this time. 20 years from now, everyone will probably be wondering how we could keep anything alive in our systems because of all the advances so its all kind of the same thing.
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2516161
Because Phosphate is in all fish food there is a constant suppy going in. The typical aquarium needs to somehow export the excess through an algae scrubber, water changes, etc. Otherwise it will build up. If it's already in the water then it makes water changes less effective. I only have an RO, no DI. This means that I add some phosphate when I do water changes. For my system this isn't a problem because the large amount of algae I harvest exports a lot phosphate and Nitrates. Many reef systems don't have that luxury. Phosphate inhibits coral growth severly. Yes, some phosphate is required to build protein but any excess limits coral growth.
Agreed, that is why many of us are using refugiums, although I would add that protein skimmers also remove some (certainly not all).
My tap has Phosphate, Nitrate, and Silicates. During the Spring runoff there's a very high Phosphate level. A simple test will tell you about your tap water.
Agreed, it also probably has other DS solids as well, probably some iron, sodium, chloride, and sulfer just to name a few. I understand how to test the water, I've been in the buisness of testing tap water for 17 years now, and have never in our tap water (even during spring runoff) detected high levels of phosphate. If your levels are high, it should cause concern among local health officials, and require a public health notice (assuming that you are on a public water system of some sort)
Just curious, what impurity in tap water do believe must be in tap water for us to exist? I believe we receive most of our nutrients through food, not through our water.
Agreed, as far a nutirents, but some substances, such as sulfer, which is required to build organic molecules, are not typically obtained through food, but rather our water.
The arsenic levels in tap water are too low to be a concern for an aquarium. This is not always true for copper though.
Again agree, I was simply stating that It can be present according to public safety standards in your drinking water.
No. You must feed your fish and provide light for photosynthetic animals. Other than that modern salt mixes do have all of the trace elements needed to simulate natural salt water. Some elements like Carbonate need to be supplemented between water changes if they are consumed quickly.
Good to know, based on the divergence among salt mixes on major elements, I simply questioned that they would contain adequate amounts of minor and trace elements.
Tripple distilled water would work fine but it's overkill. I don't use pure water for my system, it typically has TDS readings between 8 and 15. I do know that the TDS are made up of Phosphates and Silicates and I know my system can handle the small amount added during water changes and topoffs. Many systems cannot export Phosphate fast enough. So, if they added even more by using tap water then the Phosphate leves will slowly rise to the point where hard corals will begin to suffer.
Why would triple distilled water be overkill if 0TDS is the actual goal? I understand that you are not using that and based on your above statements I understand why. Are you saying that the only DS left in your water are phosphates and silicates or are you saying that you know they are present along with other DS? Understand the concept, although the major issue we deal with here in our tap water is the silicates, rather than the phosphates. Our tap water causes uncontrollable diatom blooms.
http:///forum/post/2516161
Because Phosphate is in all fish food there is a constant suppy going in. The typical aquarium needs to somehow export the excess through an algae scrubber, water changes, etc. Otherwise it will build up. If it's already in the water then it makes water changes less effective. I only have an RO, no DI. This means that I add some phosphate when I do water changes. For my system this isn't a problem because the large amount of algae I harvest exports a lot phosphate and Nitrates. Many reef systems don't have that luxury. Phosphate inhibits coral growth severly. Yes, some phosphate is required to build protein but any excess limits coral growth.
Agreed, that is why many of us are using refugiums, although I would add that protein skimmers also remove some (certainly not all).
My tap has Phosphate, Nitrate, and Silicates. During the Spring runoff there's a very high Phosphate level. A simple test will tell you about your tap water.
Agreed, it also probably has other DS solids as well, probably some iron, sodium, chloride, and sulfer just to name a few. I understand how to test the water, I've been in the buisness of testing tap water for 17 years now, and have never in our tap water (even during spring runoff) detected high levels of phosphate. If your levels are high, it should cause concern among local health officials, and require a public health notice (assuming that you are on a public water system of some sort)
Just curious, what impurity in tap water do believe must be in tap water for us to exist? I believe we receive most of our nutrients through food, not through our water.
Agreed, as far a nutirents, but some substances, such as sulfer, which is required to build organic molecules, are not typically obtained through food, but rather our water.
The arsenic levels in tap water are too low to be a concern for an aquarium. This is not always true for copper though.
Again agree, I was simply stating that It can be present according to public safety standards in your drinking water.
No. You must feed your fish and provide light for photosynthetic animals. Other than that modern salt mixes do have all of the trace elements needed to simulate natural salt water. Some elements like Carbonate need to be supplemented between water changes if they are consumed quickly.
Good to know, based on the divergence among salt mixes on major elements, I simply questioned that they would contain adequate amounts of minor and trace elements.
Tripple distilled water would work fine but it's overkill. I don't use pure water for my system, it typically has TDS readings between 8 and 15. I do know that the TDS are made up of Phosphates and Silicates and I know my system can handle the small amount added during water changes and topoffs. Many systems cannot export Phosphate fast enough. So, if they added even more by using tap water then the Phosphate leves will slowly rise to the point where hard corals will begin to suffer.
Why would triple distilled water be overkill if 0TDS is the actual goal? I understand that you are not using that and based on your above statements I understand why. Are you saying that the only DS left in your water are phosphates and silicates or are you saying that you know they are present along with other DS? Understand the concept, although the major issue we deal with here in our tap water is the silicates, rather than the phosphates. Our tap water causes uncontrollable diatom blooms.
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2516165
A RO/DI will provide 0 TDS and can be obtained for under $200. Why spend $1200?
I will stand corrected ~ I was not aware that we had reached that point of purity with an RO/DI system. Although I still question the accuracy of the method being used too obtain a reading of zero? Are you using a chemical test or electrical resistance to measure TDS? Phosphates can be tested with a result of zero as well, yet aquariums/water can still contain undetectable amounts of phosphate sufficient to cause hair algae growth. If in fact we have reached this level of purity with RO/DI systems which are fairly inexpensive, why are we not using them for the desalination of ocean water for consumption by human in areas were freshwater is in short supply. Please understand that I'm not arguing with you, I'm just asking. As stated, I've been doing this for a long time, and I'm simply trying to understand and gain new information. Everything I've previously read on this subject (and understand many of my sources are fairly old), indicates that the use of distilled water is bad, not only because of the potential of copper, but also because of the long term leaching effect caused by pure waters agressive desire to bond with ions (as I'm sure you are aware, pure water contains not only H20, but H+, OH-, and H202 ions as well). Thanks for taking the time to continue answering my questions.
http:///forum/post/2516165
A RO/DI will provide 0 TDS and can be obtained for under $200. Why spend $1200?
I will stand corrected ~ I was not aware that we had reached that point of purity with an RO/DI system. Although I still question the accuracy of the method being used too obtain a reading of zero? Are you using a chemical test or electrical resistance to measure TDS? Phosphates can be tested with a result of zero as well, yet aquariums/water can still contain undetectable amounts of phosphate sufficient to cause hair algae growth. If in fact we have reached this level of purity with RO/DI systems which are fairly inexpensive, why are we not using them for the desalination of ocean water for consumption by human in areas were freshwater is in short supply. Please understand that I'm not arguing with you, I'm just asking. As stated, I've been doing this for a long time, and I'm simply trying to understand and gain new information. Everything I've previously read on this subject (and understand many of my sources are fairly old), indicates that the use of distilled water is bad, not only because of the potential of copper, but also because of the long term leaching effect caused by pure waters agressive desire to bond with ions (as I'm sure you are aware, pure water contains not only H20, but H+, OH-, and H202 ions as well). Thanks for taking the time to continue answering my questions.
fats71
Active Member
I filled my tank with tap water and used it for thhe first three weeks of my tank. I did not have any fish issues nor any diatom blooms just alittle algae on my picana rock. The other live rock is pretty reds purples greens etc like they looked when I got it from swf.com. I do not have any algage blooms anywhere and it is regular tap water. I have done top off water with wal-mart water probably around 5 gallons total and used it also to fill the wet dry.
I dunno but it seems my tap water is better than most as I DO NOT have the issues of the blooms etc. I had a small diatom bloomm come to think of it about 1 inch by one inchh but it disappeared quickly.
The problem I do have however is nitrite and nitrate levels. They are not super high but 0.1 for nitrite and my nitrate is 5.0. I did a 10% water change and it stayed the same. I guess I need to do a larger one but I have to get my rubbermaid trash can heater and flow to mix it as im still using the 5 gallon buckets at the moment.
Anyway, I will be going only to wal-mart water until I get the typhoon 3 bought and installed but waiting on the landlord who is in IRAQ to approve it via e-mail so it may be awhile.
it just seems like the fishh adapt as our oceans have become polluted they adapt while their is die off and less of it it does come back and stronger maybe our fish are doign thhe same thing in our tanks adapting etc. we can do a fresh water bathh to them for 5 minutes annd they make it and hypo salinity etc/ I know it ccauses stresss etc but just like us once our immune system fights something off itself it becomes stronger and our offspring will have a higher tolerance etc and so on and so forth.
I do not know a lot about this stuff as I get my advice from you all but it seems like we in some cases overdo it which is not a bad thing overkill is always beetter than underdoing it but to go to some extents as some people do it seemms crazy. I will however withh all that being said eventually be using ozone annd other things as money comes in because I want to work smart not hard.
I dunno but it seems my tap water is better than most as I DO NOT have the issues of the blooms etc. I had a small diatom bloomm come to think of it about 1 inch by one inchh but it disappeared quickly.
The problem I do have however is nitrite and nitrate levels. They are not super high but 0.1 for nitrite and my nitrate is 5.0. I did a 10% water change and it stayed the same. I guess I need to do a larger one but I have to get my rubbermaid trash can heater and flow to mix it as im still using the 5 gallon buckets at the moment.
Anyway, I will be going only to wal-mart water until I get the typhoon 3 bought and installed but waiting on the landlord who is in IRAQ to approve it via e-mail so it may be awhile.
it just seems like the fishh adapt as our oceans have become polluted they adapt while their is die off and less of it it does come back and stronger maybe our fish are doign thhe same thing in our tanks adapting etc. we can do a fresh water bathh to them for 5 minutes annd they make it and hypo salinity etc/ I know it ccauses stresss etc but just like us once our immune system fights something off itself it becomes stronger and our offspring will have a higher tolerance etc and so on and so forth.
I do not know a lot about this stuff as I get my advice from you all but it seems like we in some cases overdo it which is not a bad thing overkill is always beetter than underdoing it but to go to some extents as some people do it seemms crazy. I will however withh all that being said eventually be using ozone annd other things as money comes in because I want to work smart not hard.
sigmachris
Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2514699
This is from some research I did:
TDS levels
A - 105
B - 76
C - 12
D - 524
E - 360
F - 298
I posted them in the order of what I thought would be cleanest to dirtiest water. Am I the only one Surprised by the results?
A = Culligan RO/DI from a vending machine
B = Walmart Distilled
C = RO from my filter
D = Dannon Spring Water
E = My Tap Water
F = My Well Water
Bang...why does your RO/DI unit put out a TDS of 12 but is ranked #3 for the cleanliness? What else is in the RO/DI water that knocks it's ranking down?
Thanks,
Chris
http:///forum/post/2514699
This is from some research I did:
TDS levels
A - 105
B - 76
C - 12
D - 524
E - 360
F - 298
I posted them in the order of what I thought would be cleanest to dirtiest water. Am I the only one Surprised by the results?
A = Culligan RO/DI from a vending machine
B = Walmart Distilled
C = RO from my filter
D = Dannon Spring Water
E = My Tap Water
F = My Well Water
Bang...why does your RO/DI unit put out a TDS of 12 but is ranked #3 for the cleanliness? What else is in the RO/DI water that knocks it's ranking down?
Thanks,
Chris
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by SigmaChris
http:///forum/post/2516336
Bang...why does your RO/DI unit put out a TDS of 12 but is ranked #3 for the cleanliness? What else is in the RO/DI water that knocks it's ranking down?
Thanks,
Chris
He put them in the order he thought would be best to worst. The numbers tell which one was actually best.
I had to read his post twice before I figured out what he was trying to convey.
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2516314
I dunno but it seems my tap water is better than most as I DO NOT have the issues of the blooms etc. I had a small diatom bloomm come to think of it about 1 inch by one inchh but it disappeared quickly.
The problem I do have however is nitrite and nitrate levels. They are not super high but 0.1 for nitrite and my nitrate is 5.0. I did a 10% water change and it stayed the same. I guess I need to do a larger one but I have to get my rubbermaid trash can heater and flow to mix it as im still using the 5 gallon buckets at the moment.
As far as tapwater in MO, I know for a fact that if there are quality issues municipalities add chlorine in copious amounts. I'm sure the same is true on base.
Your 5.0 nitrate reading is a concern.
What do you feed and how much?
Do you have dead spots where food and waste can build up creating little "nitrate factories"?
What filtration do you use?
Do you have a skimmer?
What does your skimmate look/smell like?
http:///forum/post/2516314
I dunno but it seems my tap water is better than most as I DO NOT have the issues of the blooms etc. I had a small diatom bloomm come to think of it about 1 inch by one inchh but it disappeared quickly.
The problem I do have however is nitrite and nitrate levels. They are not super high but 0.1 for nitrite and my nitrate is 5.0. I did a 10% water change and it stayed the same. I guess I need to do a larger one but I have to get my rubbermaid trash can heater and flow to mix it as im still using the 5 gallon buckets at the moment.
As far as tapwater in MO, I know for a fact that if there are quality issues municipalities add chlorine in copious amounts. I'm sure the same is true on base.
Your 5.0 nitrate reading is a concern.
What do you feed and how much?
Do you have dead spots where food and waste can build up creating little "nitrate factories"?
What filtration do you use?
Do you have a skimmer?
What does your skimmate look/smell like?
bang guy
Moderator
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2516274
Agreed, it also probably has other DS solids as well, probably some iron, sodium, chloride, and sulfer just to name a few. I understand how to test the water, I've been in the buisness of testing tap water for 17 years now, and have never in our tap water (even during spring runoff) detected high levels of phosphate. If your levels are high, it should cause concern among local health officials, and require a public health notice (assuming that you are on a public water system of some sort)
If you're in the water business then we can learn a lot from you for sure.
Right or wrong, until proven otherwise these are my operating parameters. I do have an open mind and I do have a good ability to see pertinant facts when they are presented. So, please continue questioning this has great potential for learning.
Perhaps the term "High Level" is relative. For a reef tank I would consider tank water with a level anywhere near 0.1ppm to be completely unacceptable. So, if you're doing a water change with water that has a PO4 level near or above 0.1ppm then you're sunk before you start unless you can quickly export the excess Phosphate.
These are statements and test numbers I've gathered though either the EPA website or the Environmental Working Group test results.
[hr]
Phosphate
Status: Unregulated - EPA has not established a maximum legal limit in tapwater for this contaminant.
Phosphate is a component of fertilizer and manure and a pollutant in municipal wastewater discharges No information on potential health impacts for Phosphate was identified in standard government and academic sources.
An Environmental Working Group analysis of Phosphate tests reported by 258 public water suppliers in 9 states shows that between 1998 and 2003, 12.2 million people in 169 communities drank water contaminated with Phosphate. No health-based limit has been established by the federal government.Phosphate remains unregulated in tap water, without a maximum legal limit.
12.2 million Americans in 8 states were served tap water contaminated with Phosphate between 1998 and 2003.
State Water suppliers with Phosphate contamination
Systems Population
California 76 9,322,828
Nevada 6 1,574,828
Ohio 58 995,286
Delaware 17 216,539
Illinois 3 48,764
Virginia 1 14,000
New York 2 13,151
Nebraska 6 12,196
Total 169 12,197,592
[hr]
These are some of the extreme test results:
System Average Level
Apple Creek Developmental Center 5.645 ppm
Village of La Rue Public Water Supply La Rue, OH 5.253ppm
West Farmington, Village West Farmington, OH 4.540 ppm
Sherwood Forest Mhp Greenville, OH 4.255 ppm
Shelby Water Treatment Plant Shelby, OH 2.063 ppm
bang guy
Moderator
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2516309
I will stand corrected ~ I was not aware that we had reached that point of purity with an RO/DI system. Although I still question the accuracy of the method being used too obtain a reading of zero? Are you using a chemical test or electrical resistance to measure TDS?
I use a TDS meter so it would be electrical resistance. Not perfect but pretty good.
Phosphates can be tested with a result of zero as well, yet aquariums/water can still contain undetectable amounts of phosphate sufficient to cause hair algae growth.
I can't speak for every situation but typically if there is excess algae in a system the PO4 level will be very low or zero. This is because the algae sequesters it very fast. Algae is a fine way to remove phosphate but if it grows out of control it can cause more damage to corals than the phosphate would have.
If in fact we have reached this level of purity with RO/DI systems which are fairly inexpensive, why are we not using them for the desalination of ocean water for consumption by human in areas were freshwater is in short supply.
The difference between purifying water with a TDS level of 300 is much much easier than purifying saltwater that has a TDS level of 53,000. The home sized RO units would choke before they got to 100 gallons.
the use of distilled water is bad, not only because of the potential of copper, but also because of the long term leaching effect caused by pure waters agressive desire to bond with ions (as I'm sure you are aware, pure water contains not only H20, but H+, OH-, and H202 ions as well). Thanks for taking the time to continue answering my questions.
Once the pure water is added to salt or saltwater it no longer has a problem with ion bonding. I would never consider using pure water for a fresh water aquarium though. Some of the earlier books brought over problems found in fresh water but are not problems in salt water. Many of the myths are still very alive and kicking. Here are a couple examples:
Don't use Calcium carbonate based sand - In freshwater the sand would slowly dissolve leading to extremely hard water. It's not a problem in saltwater because Calcium and Carbonate are desireable elements and the PH is too high for it to dissolve anyway.
Nitrite is a deadly toxin - very very true in freshwater. In saltwater, Nitrite is harmless at low levels, similar to Nitrate. Ammonia is the deadly toxin in Saltwater because of the higher PH.
http:///forum/post/2516309
I will stand corrected ~ I was not aware that we had reached that point of purity with an RO/DI system. Although I still question the accuracy of the method being used too obtain a reading of zero? Are you using a chemical test or electrical resistance to measure TDS?
I use a TDS meter so it would be electrical resistance. Not perfect but pretty good.
Phosphates can be tested with a result of zero as well, yet aquariums/water can still contain undetectable amounts of phosphate sufficient to cause hair algae growth.
I can't speak for every situation but typically if there is excess algae in a system the PO4 level will be very low or zero. This is because the algae sequesters it very fast. Algae is a fine way to remove phosphate but if it grows out of control it can cause more damage to corals than the phosphate would have.
If in fact we have reached this level of purity with RO/DI systems which are fairly inexpensive, why are we not using them for the desalination of ocean water for consumption by human in areas were freshwater is in short supply.
The difference between purifying water with a TDS level of 300 is much much easier than purifying saltwater that has a TDS level of 53,000. The home sized RO units would choke before they got to 100 gallons.
the use of distilled water is bad, not only because of the potential of copper, but also because of the long term leaching effect caused by pure waters agressive desire to bond with ions (as I'm sure you are aware, pure water contains not only H20, but H+, OH-, and H202 ions as well). Thanks for taking the time to continue answering my questions.
Once the pure water is added to salt or saltwater it no longer has a problem with ion bonding. I would never consider using pure water for a fresh water aquarium though. Some of the earlier books brought over problems found in fresh water but are not problems in salt water. Many of the myths are still very alive and kicking. Here are a couple examples:
Don't use Calcium carbonate based sand - In freshwater the sand would slowly dissolve leading to extremely hard water. It's not a problem in saltwater because Calcium and Carbonate are desireable elements and the PH is too high for it to dissolve anyway.
Nitrite is a deadly toxin - very very true in freshwater. In saltwater, Nitrite is harmless at low levels, similar to Nitrate. Ammonia is the deadly toxin in Saltwater because of the higher PH.
bang guy
Moderator
Originally Posted by SigmaChris
http:///forum/post/2516336
Bang...why does your RO/DI unit put out a TDS of 12 but is ranked #3 for the cleanliness? What else is in the RO/DI water that knocks it's ranking down?
Thanks,
Chris
Hi Chris, I'm not using my DI. Only the RO.
I ranked those in the order I expected them to be, not in the order the results showed. I expected the Culligan RO/DI to be very low or even zero, it wasn't.
http:///forum/post/2516336
Bang...why does your RO/DI unit put out a TDS of 12 but is ranked #3 for the cleanliness? What else is in the RO/DI water that knocks it's ranking down?
Thanks,
Chris
Hi Chris, I'm not using my DI. Only the RO.
I ranked those in the order I expected them to be, not in the order the results showed. I expected the Culligan RO/DI to be very low or even zero, it wasn't.