Do babies go to heaven?

crashbandicoot

crashbandicoot

Active Member
I am not up on the bible . But if babies are not allowed than really what kind of god do we have ? But then again I think that god doesn't care what reliegion you believe in as long as you live a good life and dont hurt others than your getting in to heaven , Children are allowed to cut in line to get in to heaven .
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2592462
so could i consider myself a child... i go to toys R us and other toy stores... play games/sports... play video games... play outside... eat jello... love fruit snacks... love naps... sometimes speak without thinking first... dont fully understand what is going on around me... respect my elders... go in the big boy potty... try to learn something new daily... laugh out loud uncontrolably... eat PB & Js... and as long as i am not breaking the law/rules set forth by the powers that be everything is good right...
Not even close. You would be acting juvenile. You know better, that is the difference.
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592855
Renogaw, I have to ask you a question. You have made it clear to myself and others before that you had no religion. You have said in prayer posts, that you do not pray, but send best wishes. Why are you asking all of these religious questions now?
Does it matter? I enjoy the conversation.
Originally Posted by renogaw
http:///forum/post/2591635
by default? supposedly you can only get into heaven if you accept jesus as your savior, but what about babies and kids that are too young to even understand that stuff? if they do, how do they get around the whole accepting jesus thing?
When I have questions that do not have crystal clear answers I refer to what the bible is absolutely clear on. God is just, therefore whatever happens to the children and those who have never heard the gospel will be fair and just. The gospel has spread to nearly every corner of the earth. It would be pretty hard to find an adult who has no access whatsoever to the gospel. Seek and you will find.
 
groupergenius

groupergenius

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2592830
A long life!
Sometimes, that just isn't feasible.
I think it's too easy, as humans, to be bad. To live for the moment and dismiss the future.
Working towards the future, planning ahead, and preparing the path for this life, and the next, is too daunting and difficult a task for many folks to comprehend.
Goofy sales slogan comes to mind. "we don't plan to fail, we fail to plan". Sounds corny, but hey non-believers, what if your wrong. HELL of a price to pay.
 
jmick

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
http:///forum/post/2592873
Sometimes, that just isn't feasible.
I think it's too easy, as humans, to be bad. To live for the moment and dismiss the future.
Working towards the future, planning ahead, and preparing the path for this life, and the next, is too daunting and difficult a task for many folks to comprehend.
Goofy sales slogan comes to mind. "we don't plan to fail, we fail to plan". Sounds corny, but hey non-believers, what if your wrong. HELL of a price to pay.
You don't have to worry about the fate of your soul to live a good life. Does anyone really think it's easier being bad? I don't have a ton of life experience but I have enough to know that the right choice is just as easy as the bad choice.
I'm not necesaary a non believer; the idea of life after death is fantastic but the possibility of it not existing is just as realistic to me. I refuse to pin my hopes and dreams on something that might not exist. My life is full, I have a good wife, great kids, a good job, good friends, good family and health and if this is all there is then I will die a very happy man.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2592897
You don't have to worry about the fate of your soul to live a good life. Does anyone really think it's easier being bad? I don't have a ton of life experience but I have enough to know that the right choice is just as easy as the bad choice.
I'm not necesaary a non believer; the idea of life after death is fantastic but the possibility of it not existing is just as realistic to me. I refuse to pin my hopes and dreams on something that might not exist. My life is full, I have a good wife, great kids, a good job, good friends, good family and health and if this is all there is then I will die a very happy man.
This post is about babies going to heaven; But what do you consider a good vs. a bad choice? Compared to what, in your opinion? I am very happy that your life is good. That is wonderful!!! What happens when things go bad though? Who do you turn to for help in times of crisis? Or who will you turn to? I am glad that life hasn't knocked hard on your door yet.
 
ruaround

ruaround

Active Member

Originally Posted by Pontius
http:///forum/post/2591743
Matthew 18:3
"And He said, 'I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven'."

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592858
Not even close. You would be acting juvenile. You know better, that is the difference.
acting juvinile??? i am changing and becoming like little children... so from that quote right there is should enter the kingdom of heaven...
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2592869
Acting....that's funny!

hey now socal... i resemble that remark...

why hasnt anyone touched on the being oblivious to it all... such as: does one with downsyndrome that cant "choose" or make choices get exemption of that as well... there are adults "in age" that couldnt comprehend... as far as time goes we are all just children... the earth has been around a long long long time...
 
groupergenius

groupergenius

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2592897
You don't have to worry about the fate of your soul to live a good life. Does anyone really think it's easier being bad? I don't have a ton of life experience but I have enough to know that the right choice is just as easy as the bad choice.
I'm not necesaary a non believer; the idea of life after death is fantastic but the possibility of it not existing is just as realistic to me. I refuse to pin my hopes and dreams on something that might not exist. My life is full, I have a good wife, great kids, a good job, good friends, good family and health and if this is all there is then I will die a very happy man.
Of course it's easier to be bad.
Is it easier to sit on the couch, or go outside and play with your kids?
Is it easier to do nothing and let others take care of you?
Is it easier to sell crack or meth, rob someone, or whatever and make $5000 a week, or study, work hard, and keep your nose clean to make $750?
BTW, I'm not a church going sort myself. I just feel there is something way bigger than what we can ever comprehend. And by the time one realizes what it is....
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2592920
acting juvinile??? i am changing and becoming like little children... so from that quote right there is should enter the kingdom of heaven...
hey now socal... i resemble that remark...

why hasnt anyone touched on the being oblivious to it all... such as: does one with downsyndrome that cant "choose" or make choices get exemption of that as well... there are adults "in age" that couldnt comprehend... as far as time goes we are all just children... the earth has been around a long long long time...
Acting like a child and having a child's innocence are two very different things, as you are well aware, having children yourself. As for those who are adult and still have the mental capacity of a child, they too know the difference between right and wrong. I am well aware of this having worked with Autistic kids, people with Downs Syndrome, and other mental handicaps.
Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
http:///forum/post/2592924
Of course it's easier to be bad.
Is it easier to sit on the couch, or go outside and play with your kids?
Is it easier to do nothing and let others take care of you?
Is it easier to sell crack or meth, rob someone, or whatever and make $5000 a week, or study, work hard, and keep your nose clean to make $750?
BTW, I'm not a church going sort myself. I just feel there is something way bigger than what we can ever comprehend. And by the time one realizes what it is....
To sin is always easier than to do the right thing. That is the point of it all.
 
ruaround

ruaround

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592929
Acting like a child and having a child's innocence are two very different things, as you are well aware, having children yourself. As for those who are adult and still have the mental capacity of a child, they too know the difference between right and wrong. I am well aware of this having worked with Autistic kids, people with Downs Syndrome, and other mental handicaps. .
at what point does innocence stop... because if i read that quote and interperet, if i act as child and change to become like child then you shall be received... i do have children and have also worked with handicaps after repeating myself time and time again they would understand the difference for a while... then have to be reminded again... repeat myslef daily, hourly or even within 10 min...
so asically what youre saying is that a regiment of teaching what is right in ones opinion is salvation???
so the polygamists in Texas that were teaching what they thought was right are going to h e l l because they thought they were doing right and now find out its wrong, UNLESS they conform to what another says is right???
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592929
To sin is always easier than to do the right thing. That is the point of it all.
i have problems with this statement... if always taught to do wrong in ones eyes may be the right thing to do in anothers... therefore if one is taught to always sin then it may be harder for one to do right...
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2592946
at what point does innocence stop... because if i read that quote and interperet, if i act as child and change to become like child then you shall be received... i do have children and have also worked with handicaps after repeating myself time and time again they would understand the difference for a while... then have to be reminded again... repeat myslef daily, hourly or even within 10 min...
so asically what youre saying is that a regiment of teaching what is right in ones opinion is salvation???
Nah, don't put words into my mouth. There is no certain age. It is at the point when a person willingly does wrong that the path forks. It has nothing to do with age nor mentality.
so the polygamists in Texas that were teaching what they thought was right are going to h e l l because they thought they were doing right and now find out its wrong, UNLESS they conform to what another says is right???
Again, this post is about babies going to heaven. Religion is not cut and dry, no matter how you would like to argue it.
i have problems with this statement... if always taught to do wrong in ones eyes may be the right thing to do in anothers... therefore if one is taught to always sin then it may be harder for one to do right...
Give an example of what you are talking about here.
 
ruaround

ruaround

Active Member

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592964
Nah, don't put words into my mouth. There is no certain age. It is at the point when a person willingly does wrong that the path forks. It has nothing to do with age nor mentality.
i didnt put words into your mouth... i was talking about the quote from Mathew 18:3... BUT in what you just said if i never come to a fork then i shall be received...
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592964
Again, this post is about babies going to heaven. Religion is not cut and dry, no matter how you would like to argue it.
its not cut and dry... but what i am pointing out is why is it that we that can "choose" and comprehend things get to say yes they go or no they dont and be absolute about it... the quotes Pontius brought into the thread dont say anything absolute to me... cuz i dont wanna grow up i m a toys r us kid!!!
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592964
Give an example of what you are talking about here.
thats easy.... gang banger thugs that raise their children to lie cheat steal and kill... its not so easy for those children to know any different... so by doing right by law may not be the easiest for them to do...
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2592971
i didnt put words into your mouth... i was talking about the quote from Mathew 18:3... BUT in what you just said if i never come to a fork then i shall be received...
You have come to a fork though. You are a capable being with a conscience.
its not cut and dry... but what i am pointing out is why is it that we that can "choose" and comprehend things get to say yes they go or no they dint and be absolute about it... the quotes Panties brought into the thread dint say anything absolute to me... CZ i dint wanna grow up i m a toys r us kid!!!
What do any of us know about absolute? We don't get to choose who goes and who doesn't. I'm sorry that I don't have a better answer for you than that.
thats easy.... gang banger thugs that raise their children to lie cheat steal and kill... its not so easy for those children to know any different... so by doing right by law may not be the easiest for them to do...
It is not easy for those children to break from that lifestyle, but they do know that what they are doing is wrong, should they follow their parents example. That is a tricky situation. The kids that I work with in behavioral management are in this precise situation. They are good kids and know when they have done wrong, but are a product of their environment. Some are crack babies (now at 13-14 years old) others had fetal alcohol syndrome, others don't know where there folks are, some don't care. It is messed up. They all know right from wrong though.
 
ruaround

ruaround

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592976
You have come to a fork though. You are a capable being with a conscience.

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592976
There is no certain age. It is at the point when a person willingly does wrong that the path forks. It has nothing to do with age nor mentality.
so is this a contradiction???
cuz i for one dont think that i have come to that fork...
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592976
What do any of us know about absolute? We don't get to choose who goes and who doesn't. I'm sorry that I don't have a better answer for you than that.
no we dont... and why would one say that ALL babies go to heaven then???
if Anton LeVay had an infant pass would that child too e received???
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592976
It is not easy for those children to break from that lifestyle, but they do know that what they are doing is wrong, should they follow their parents example. That is a tricky situation. The kids that I work with in behavioral management are in this precise situation. They are good kids and know when they have done wrong, but are a product of their environment. Some are crack babies (now at 13-14 years old) others had fetal alcohol syndrome, others don't know where there folks are, some don't care. It is messed up. They all know right from wrong though.
they all dont though... look at kiddos in The Sudan wielding AK47s at the age of 5 and 6 killing in the name of what their elders say is right... even though you and i know that murder and killing is not right...
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2592979
so is this a contradiction???
cuz i for one dont think that i have come to that fork...
I am quite certain that you are past the point in your life where innocence can be mistaken for irrational thoughts

no we dont... and why would one say that ALL babies go to heaven then???
if Anton LeVay had an infant pass would that child too e received???
All children are born innocent.
they all dont though... look at kiddos in The Sudan wielding AK47s at the age of 5 and 6 killing in the name of what their elders say is right... even though you and i know that murder and killing is not right...
There is a big difference between obeying orders and knowing in your heart what is right and what is wrong.
Alright RU, I am out for the night. BTW, how are your friends VYLE from myspace doing? Small world HUH?
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Ru, this could take me all night to explain in depth but it is late so here is the short and simple explanation.
The point in which your "innocence" is shed is when a person, no matter what age, makes a conscious decision about God, the creator, The son, The father, higher power, what have you. This is the shedding of innocence and choices. A person can unknowingly make bad decisions as a child. But if that child has never contemplated, heard about, or thought about God and made a conscientious decision to accept/love/ know his existance, then they are innocent. The moment the realization/conscious effort occurs to contemplate God is the minute innocense is shed and the gateway to heaven is now known of. Before all of this happens the person is innocent and free to enter heaven regardless of life decisions in other areas.
The other choices in life (pending which faith) you make have very little bearing on acceptances into heaven, IE. stealing murder, charity work, and so on. As an individual can go their entire life as a "bad" person, never hear of God or see a sign that makes the person contemplate his existance they hear it on their death bed and accept him and still get to heaven through forgiveness.
There are many versus and passages on this in all religions and they all basically conclude this same understanding. But as I said it is late. Hope this makes some sense.
 
ruaround

ruaround

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2593007
Ru, this could take me all night to explain in depth but it is late so here is the short and simple explanation.
The point in which your "innocence" is shed is when a person, no matter what age, makes a conscious decision about God, the creator, The son, The father, higher power, what have you. This is the shedding of innocence and choices. A person can unknowingly make bad decisions as a child. But if that child has never contemplated, heard about, or thought about God and made a conscientious decision to accept/love/ know his existance, then they are innocent. The moment the realization/conscious effort occurs to contemplate God is the minute innocense is shed and the gateway to heaven is now known of. Before all of this happens the person is innocent and free to enter heaven regardless of life decisions in other areas.
The other choices in life (pending which faith) you make have very little bearing on acceptances into heaven, IE. stealing murder, charity work, and so on. As an individual can go their entire life as a "bad" person, never hear of God or see a sign that makes the person contemplate his existance they hear it on their death bed and accept him and still get to heaven through forgiveness.
There are many versus and passages on this in all religions and they all basically conclude this same understanding. But as I said it is late. Hope this makes some sense.
all valid points... makes alot of sense... except for what if one was NEVER spoken to about God or Heaven... is that inherant or just handed down tales that ones elders tells...
one should follow rules and know what is right and what is wrong by the rules and laws set forth by our society...
so if one chooses not to decide then they are cast out???
ohh now i get it...
if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice...
 
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