Do babies go to heaven?

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592990
I am quite certain that you are past the point in your life where innocence can be mistaken for irrational thoughts

:
how do you figure???

that is another conversation...

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592990
All children are born innocent.
even when brought in to this world to serve satan???
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592990
There is a big difference between obeying orders and knowing in your heart what is right and what is wrong.
you couldnt know that... they are fighting for their lives... and what is taught is to kill to survive... they dont have the "order" that we do here in the greatest country in the world... but with that said are we just taking "orders"???
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592990
Alright RU, I am out for the night. BTW, how are your friends VYLE from myspace doing? Small world HUH?

isnt it you that posted their music??? apparently they are rockin every weekend at some venue...

 

[nicetry]

Originally Posted by nacl freak
http:///forum/post/2591640
Can you imagine a perfect place without a child?
Actually, yes. I can.
Originally Posted by shogun323
http:///forum/post/2591654
Babies are innocent and free of sin. They certainly go.
According to Christian teachings, everyone is born into sin
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2592423
How could a merciful God not allow a baby into heaven?
How could a merciful God allow millions of children to die from famine/pestilence/genocide? How could a merciful God allow a Tsunami to kill tens of thousands of people, most of whom were poor third world villagers? Remember now, God reportedly has the power to calm the seas.
How could a merciful God not intervene in the painful, cancer death of the loving "Chrisitian" woman with three young children?
I could go on and on but you get my drift.
Originally Posted by alexmir
http:///forum/post/2592528
Also, People keep themselves from going to heaven by the way that they live. He intends for everyone to live a good life, and love eachother, and love him.
Of course none of us are God, and capable of deciding who is going to heaven. Thats why he is up there making the decisions and were not.

(thanks goodness!!!)
Hmmm...so we can get ourselves into heaven, or God is making the final decision? I'd like to know how much work I actually have to do to seal the deal.
Originally Posted by alexmir
http:///forum/post/2592605
Just take a step outside, or look at your children, and think about every tiny little thing that has to happen just right in order for 1 small human body to work. Or for one little bird to be able to fly. Theres millions of things that have to happen.
Believing that there is no God is nonsense, all of these things couldnt just happen on accident, then work out so nicely.
I'm guessing you live in a world where everything works out so nicely. Is God only responsible for the "nice" things that happen, or does he take any responsibility for the bad stuff too. I've always been confused by that.

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2592920
why hasnt anyone touched on the being oblivious to it all... such as: does one with downsyndrome that cant "choose" or make choices get exemption of that as well... there are adults "in age" that couldnt comprehend... as far as time goes we are all just children... the earth has been around a long long long time...
Actually both jmick and I touched on that. I believe the innocence of the mentally handicapped to be the same as the innocence of a child. its the knowledge that what your doing is wrong that makes it evil. for a baby or handicap to squeeze a cats tail is innocent they know not that what they do causes pain. for an adult its cruelty.

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592866
Yeah, it actually does matter to me for certain reasons. He knows why.
cause i have a daughter now, and my wife and i are discussing her religeous upbringing. i'm trying to understand better the religeous mindset

 

[renogaw]

and, even though there's no way to predict or really prevent, she's at the age that SIDS is most prevalant. i'm terrified about it to be honest

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by renogaw
http:///forum/post/2593079
cause i have a daughter now, and my wife and i are discussing her religeous upbringing. i'm trying to understand better the religeous mindset
Gotcha. Children change the way you look at everything don't they?
Originally Posted by renogaw
http:///forum/post/2593082
and, even though there's no way to predict or really prevent, she's at the age that SIDS is most prevalant. i'm terrified about it to be honest
I understand that. It is a scary time, especially for new parents.
isnt it you that posted their music??? apparently they are rockin every weekend at some venue.
Yep, that was me. I just happened to notice you on their site recently so I thought I would throw that in there

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2593017
all valid points... makes alot of sense... except for what if one was NEVER spoken to about God or Heaven... is that inherant or just handed down tales that ones elders tells...

Even if never spoken to about GOD a person at some point will contemplate the fact whether there is a god or not. See the way I interpret and understand it, a person may never hear of Jesus Christ or the other various tenets of certain faiths. But each individual at some point will ponder the decision regarding God (be it Zues, the sun or what have you). By actively choosing to worship/follow God at this time is when the "innocence" is washed away.
Now having never heard of Jesus Christ and hearing of his sacrifice, can you still get to heaven? I believe so as even without hearing the story a person made the decision to believe in GOD. Now the moment you hear of Jesus, Mohammed or any other "scripture" involving tenants this is when the decision becomes proactive even more.
But it is possible to contemplate god without ever HEARING the story/stories. One just has to look around. Take for example over the course of history the many groups discovered by "educated" societies, from Pygmys to vikings. Each society ALWAYS has it's version of what god is or who he is. I believe this is an inherant trait that humans actively seek this knowledge. I believe regardless in what fashion a person discovers god, they have made a choice and thus shed their innocence.
Now this opens another question, why is one religion more violent than another and how does this play into the grand scheme in WHO God is? That I don't know. However every religion has it's "fanatics" that take things to the extreme for their own personal glory and views. These are the flks I wonder about it more so than the "innocent". Some of these folks honestly believe they are doing God's work ven though it brings pain and suffering through their hand. Are they just as likely to enter heaven......This I don't know and need to research more

 

[nina&noah]

Originally Posted by renogaw
http:///forum/post/2593082
and, even though there's no way to predict or really prevent, she's at the age that SIDS is most prevalant. i'm terrified about it to be honest
I can sympathize. For the first few months I would just stare at my baby to make sure he was still breathing. It doesn't get any better. Once the SIDS stage goes away, there is something else to worry about. My baby is at the stage where I have to worry about the MMR vaccine. Do I put him at risk of catching an illness, or do I dose him with chemicals that could change who he is? It is always something!
I think the bottom line to this is that nobody know the answer. I believe there is a God. I believe that he sent me my son. I believe that there are many unanswerable questions. I choose to live every day in God's vision and to appreciate everything he has given me.

 

[nacl freak]

Remember[if you believe in the Word] Spoken words have power. Speak only good things over your children. Health, happiness, protection, wisdom, these are the most powerful words you can speak and pray over your children. I spoke fear over one of my children. He was so energetic so active he always seemed to be the one out of my three who got hurt . My husband and myself often spoke of our fear for him. The very day that a terrible accident occured I had expressed that fear to a friend. Later that night we sat togather, in the trama center, and discussed how my fears had turned to fruition.

 

[nina&noah]

Originally Posted by nacl freak
http:///forum/post/2593469
Remember[if you believe in the Word] Spoken words have power. Speak only good things over your children. Health, happiness, protection, wisdom, these are the most powerful words you can speak and pray over your children. I spoke fear over one of my children. He was so energetic so active he always seemed to be the one out of my three who got hurt . My husband and myself often spoke of our fear for him. The very day that a terrible accident occured I had expressed that fear to a friend. Later that night we sat togather, in the trama center, and discussed how my fears had turned to fruition.

Oh wow, my husband and I were having an argument about this last night! He told me I worry too much and am paranoid. He is the complete opposite and thinks nothing bad will ever happen. He is a HUGE believer in "the secret." It is funny that you posted that today. Maybe God is trying to tell me something!
It is hard to find the balance between paranoia and negligence.

 

[nacl freak]

It's a hard habit to cultivate. I'm afraid is the worst thing to speak. Fear does not come from God. Think of it this way. Because of God's promise my child walks in health and is protected. Because of God's promises my child is an overcomer of all problems big or small.

j

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by nacl freak
http:///forum/post/2593501
It's a hard habit to cultivate. I'm afraid is the worst thing to speak. Fear does not come from God. Think of it this way. Because of God's promise my child walks in health and is protected. Because of God's promises my child is an overcomer of all problems big or small.

j
OMG, I woke up this morning and looked outside and said to my wife that I was afraid it was going to rain and guess what? It rained, I shouldn't have said a thing and we would have had a beautiful day!

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2593515
OMG, I woke up this morning and looked outside and said to my wife that I was afraid it was going to rain and guess what? It rained, I shouldn't have said a thing and we would have had a beautiful day!
yup and if you rub your belly 8 times closkwise, brush your teeth for exactly 90 seconds, put your lucky shirt on, touch a lucky charm, walk through a door backwards, throw some salt over your shoulder, drop a penny in a well, dont step on any cracks, wish upon a star and say "i think i can" you will win the lottery tonight...

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2593546
yup and if you rub your belly 8 times closkwise, brush your teeth for exactly 90 seconds, put your lucky shirt on, touch a lucky charm, walk through a door backwards, throw some salt over your shoulder, drop a penny in a well, dont step on any cracks, wish upon a star and say "i think i can" you will win the lottery tonight...

That doesn't work. I tried it last week.

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2593575
That doesn't work. I tried it last week.
you must have done it wrong then...

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Darknes
http:///forum/post/2591673
We aren't God, how are we supposed to know who he allows into heaven? I'm sure we would like to think babies go to heaven, but nowhere in the bible does it assure they do.
We can only go on what the Bible does teach.
If you read the story of David and Bathsheba's first born child (the one from when they hooked up while she was married to Uriah and David had him killed) you'll find this "David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and went into his house and spent the nights lying on the ground. 17 The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them.
18 On the seventh day the child died. David's servants were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they thought, "While the child was still living, we spoke to David but he would not listen to us. How can we tell him the child is dead? He may do something desperate."
19 David noticed that his servants were whispering among themselves and he realized the child was dead. "Is the child dead?" he asked.
"Yes," they replied, "he is dead."
20 Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.
21 His servants asked him, "Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!"
22 He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, 'Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.' 23 But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
(the story begins in Chapter 11 of II Samuel. The verses I quote come from chpt 12)
I believe (though many would argue) John Chpt 9 also addresses this: "39Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind." 40Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?" 41Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

 

[ruaround]

so is that a story about a man that got it on with a woman, starves himself and sleeps uncomfortably because he felt guilty that his newborn was born out of wedlock and they also commited adultry... then in the end he realized that he couldnt have done anything about it so he has a tastey meal...

i dont see where that proves or says anything about babies going to heaven... and besides arent ALL children born into sin and have to prove them selves to the lord and take him as their savior before they can enter into salvation???

 

[groupergenius]

Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2593754
so is that a story about a man that got it on with a woman, starves himself and sleeps uncomfortably because he felt guilty that his newborn was born out of wedlock and they also commited adultry... then in the end he realized that he couldnt have done anything about it so he has a tastey meal...

i dont see where that proves or says anything about babies going to heaven... and besides arent ALL children born into sin and have to prove them selves to the lord and take him as their savior before they can enter into salvation???
Interpretation. Big word but says alot. Religions have as many interpretations as Amelda Marcos has shoes.
Take from it what you can to better yourself and your family and be a better person.
Interpretation. What separates a terrorist, whether foriegn or domestic, from good folks who are living a decent life.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2593597
We can only go on what the Bible does teach.
If you read the story of David and Bathsheba's first born child (the one from when they hooked up while she was married to Uriah and David had him killed) you'll find this "David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and went into his house and spent the nights lying on the ground. 17 The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them.
18 On the seventh day the child died. David's servants were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they thought, "While the child was still living, we spoke to David but he would not listen to us. How can we tell him the child is dead? He may do something desperate."
19 David noticed that his servants were whispering among themselves and he realized the child was dead. "Is the child dead?" he asked.
"Yes," they replied, "he is dead."
20 Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.
21 His servants asked him, "Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!"
22 He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, 'Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.' 23 But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
(the story begins in Chapter 11 of II Samuel. The verses I quote come from chpt 12)
I believe (though many would argue) John Chpt 9 also addresses this: "39Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind." 40Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?" 41Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."
It can be interpreted different ways.
However, I'm Catholic and was taught that the gates of Heaven were closed to man until Jesus died on the cross. Everyone that died before Jesus went to Hell. Thus, David's child would have had to be in Hell.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2592450
Yes, babies and children, up until the age of recognition, go to heaven. When they are old enough to CHOOSE to sin or not is when the path splits. A baby or young child cannot choose their religion, beliefs, or be aware of the consequences of their actions. I hope that that makes sense to you.
So with your theory, we are doing all children a favor by having abortions? That way they dont have to grow up and risk living a life of sin? Since mothers who abort their children are basically "saving" them, do you consider abortion a sin? Just another way to look at things.