Do You Believe In Creation
- Thread starter reefreak29
- Start date
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
I believe they were all around long before Christ...The Rigveda anywhere from 1700-1000 years before.
Originally Posted by Jmick
Yes but they are before Christ and Christianity.
Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
The Old Testament was before Christ too.
I believe they were all around long before Christ...The Rigveda anywhere from 1700-1000 years before.
Originally Posted by Jmick
Yes but they are before Christ and Christianity.
Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
The Old Testament was before Christ too.
Jerthunter said:
socal57che
Active Member
I can't believe how many pages piled up while I was at work. I spent a half an hour just catching up.
Thanks Journeyman for responding to the question Darknes posted.
This thread is awesome.
Thanks Journeyman for responding to the question Darknes posted.
This thread is awesome.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
Do they share a common theme, other then the word of god?
Yup.
The creation of man, the fall, and the redemption plan for a start.
Do they share a common theme, other then the word of god?
Yup.
The creation of man, the fall, and the redemption plan for a start.
reefreak29
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I have no idea how you should respond. I suppose it depends on who you are trying to convince. If you are trying to convice others that your choice of religious text is the only valid one you might want to use something besides your religious text to convince them of that. If you are trying to convince yourself and you already believe the bible to be true than there doesn't seem like there is anything that must be said to achieve that.
im not trying to convince anyone, infact i would encourage people to do there own research. usually when people seek out the truth they find it
I have no idea how you should respond. I suppose it depends on who you are trying to convince. If you are trying to convice others that your choice of religious text is the only valid one you might want to use something besides your religious text to convince them of that. If you are trying to convince yourself and you already believe the bible to be true than there doesn't seem like there is anything that must be said to achieve that.
im not trying to convince anyone, infact i would encourage people to do there own research. usually when people seek out the truth they find it
ukcats
Member
Truth is that nobody KNOWS anything about the bible or God or evolution, or heaven, or hell, etc etc etc.... Although it seems like each of you post what you think may be the truth. But actually it is your own beliefs.
Now to the topic of this thread: I tend to believe that God created the universe and he did it through evolution. World was created in 6 days...right? How long was a day...to God? 10 million years? 100? To the authors of Genesis how long was a day? Could they even fathom how long a million or more years was? Would they just refer to that time period as a day? Does a "day" really mean a LONG period of time? Or a step in the process? Really I have no idea. Could God have worked for 6 "days" or hundreds of millions of years..then maybe we are in the 7th day still...a time where God is watching his work...dunno?
Live your life as well as you can. Respect others. Give what you don't need to others who need it. Believe in SOMETHING. Anything actually, as long as it respects those values. Do your best and don't take stuff so seriously.
To each there own... By the way..I'm Catholic..if anyone was wondering.
Now to the topic of this thread: I tend to believe that God created the universe and he did it through evolution. World was created in 6 days...right? How long was a day...to God? 10 million years? 100? To the authors of Genesis how long was a day? Could they even fathom how long a million or more years was? Would they just refer to that time period as a day? Does a "day" really mean a LONG period of time? Or a step in the process? Really I have no idea. Could God have worked for 6 "days" or hundreds of millions of years..then maybe we are in the 7th day still...a time where God is watching his work...dunno?
Live your life as well as you can. Respect others. Give what you don't need to others who need it. Believe in SOMETHING. Anything actually, as long as it respects those values. Do your best and don't take stuff so seriously.
To each there own... By the way..I'm Catholic..if anyone was wondering.
lil' tanker
Member
Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
Give me a verse where Jesus says, ok you can eat pork and worship on Sunday.
Mark 7:18-20
18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")
There isn't one that says anything about Sunday that's just our belief.
Give me a verse where Jesus says, ok you can eat pork and worship on Sunday.
Mark 7:18-20
18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")
There isn't one that says anything about Sunday that's just our belief.
lil' tanker
Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
The books of the law may be that old. The rest much newer.
I gave a very early date for the Rig Veda (5000 years ago), many people have given dates up to 12,000 years ago.
Actually that's not true Job is the first book written. The others may have happened before it (Like Genesis obviously) but Moses wrote those and Job was written before then.
The books of the law may be that old. The rest much newer.
I gave a very early date for the Rig Veda (5000 years ago), many people have given dates up to 12,000 years ago.
Actually that's not true Job is the first book written. The others may have happened before it (Like Genesis obviously) but Moses wrote those and Job was written before then.
reefreak29
Active Member
Originally Posted by UKCATS
Truth is that nobody KNOWS anything about the bible or God or evolution, or heaven, or hell, etc etc etc.... Although it seems like each of you post what you think may be the truth. But actually it is your own beliefs.
Now to the topic of this thread: I tend to believe that God created the universe and he did it through evolution. World was created in 6 days...right? How long was a day...to God? 10 million years? 100? To the authors of Genesis how long was a day? Could they even fathom how long a million or more years was? Would they just refer to that time period as a day? Does a "day" really mean a LONG period of time? Or a step in the process? Really I have no idea. Could God have worked for 6 "days" or hundreds of millions of years..then maybe we are in the 7th day still...a time where God is watching his work...dunno?
Live your life as well as you can. Respect others. Give what you don't need to others who need it. Believe in SOMETHING. Anything actually, as long as it respects those values. Do your best and don't take stuff so seriously.
To each there own... By the way..I'm Catholic..if anyone was wondering.
i know alittle about God and the bible i dont think you can disrcedit what knowledge people have gained thruogh reading the bible , you are correct that we know nothing about Gods power as stated in job
Truth is that nobody KNOWS anything about the bible or God or evolution, or heaven, or hell, etc etc etc.... Although it seems like each of you post what you think may be the truth. But actually it is your own beliefs.
Now to the topic of this thread: I tend to believe that God created the universe and he did it through evolution. World was created in 6 days...right? How long was a day...to God? 10 million years? 100? To the authors of Genesis how long was a day? Could they even fathom how long a million or more years was? Would they just refer to that time period as a day? Does a "day" really mean a LONG period of time? Or a step in the process? Really I have no idea. Could God have worked for 6 "days" or hundreds of millions of years..then maybe we are in the 7th day still...a time where God is watching his work...dunno?
Live your life as well as you can. Respect others. Give what you don't need to others who need it. Believe in SOMETHING. Anything actually, as long as it respects those values. Do your best and don't take stuff so seriously.
To each there own... By the way..I'm Catholic..if anyone was wondering.
i know alittle about God and the bible i dont think you can disrcedit what knowledge people have gained thruogh reading the bible , you are correct that we know nothing about Gods power as stated in job
jerthunter
Active Member
Originally Posted by lil' tanker
Actually that's not true Job is the first book written. The others may have happened before it (Like Genesis obviously) but Moses wrote those and Job was written before then.
The authorship of Job is highly debated and even if it was the first book written of the bible what does that mean? There are plenty of older religious texts written so if oldness is a reason to believe shouldn't the focus be on the oldest texts?
Actually that's not true Job is the first book written. The others may have happened before it (Like Genesis obviously) but Moses wrote those and Job was written before then.
The authorship of Job is highly debated and even if it was the first book written of the bible what does that mean? There are plenty of older religious texts written so if oldness is a reason to believe shouldn't the focus be on the oldest texts?
jerthunter
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
im not trying to convince anyone, infact i would encourage people to do there own research. usually when people seek out the truth they find it
Yes research is good, but it generally a good idea to base your research on more than one book.
im not trying to convince anyone, infact i would encourage people to do there own research. usually when people seek out the truth they find it
Yes research is good, but it generally a good idea to base your research on more than one book.
reefreak29
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Yes research is good, but it generally a good idea to base your research on more than one book.
as arrogant as it may sound I dont need to
Yes research is good, but it generally a good idea to base your research on more than one book.
as arrogant as it may sound I dont need to
jerthunter
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefreak29
as arrogant as it may sound I dont need to
You are correct, that does sound arrogant, but atleast you understand that.
as arrogant as it may sound I dont need to
You are correct, that does sound arrogant, but atleast you understand that.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Yes research is good, but it generally a good idea to base your research on more than one book.
And for those of us that have researched and educated ourselves? What about those of us who have studied the origin of the Bible and other ancient writings and have come to the conclusion that the Bible has stood the test of scholarly dissection and history?
Yes research is good, but it generally a good idea to base your research on more than one book.
And for those of us that have researched and educated ourselves? What about those of us who have studied the origin of the Bible and other ancient writings and have come to the conclusion that the Bible has stood the test of scholarly dissection and history?
jerthunter
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
And for those of us that have researched and educated ourselves? What about those of us who have studied the origin of the Bible and other ancient writings and have come to the conclusion that the Bible has stood the test of scholarly dissection and history?
Perhaps you have misunderstood what I am doing. I made a statement that often the choice to believe in God is the easiest but determining who God is or what his words are can be a little more confusing. Following that statement people asked me why, so I explained that there are several other religious texts. I gladly shared a very small peek at other information that was out there. At no time have I tried to claim that the bible does not have validity, however, I would like to bring to people's attention that there are plenty of other people who believe just as firmly in their religious beliefs and base their religious beliefs on a different religious text.
So to answer your question, if you feel that you have sufficently investigated the question of who God is then good for you. However, I do not put enough trust in myself to claim that I could ever fully understand God and therefore I will continue looking for the best answer.
And for those of us that have researched and educated ourselves? What about those of us who have studied the origin of the Bible and other ancient writings and have come to the conclusion that the Bible has stood the test of scholarly dissection and history?
Perhaps you have misunderstood what I am doing. I made a statement that often the choice to believe in God is the easiest but determining who God is or what his words are can be a little more confusing. Following that statement people asked me why, so I explained that there are several other religious texts. I gladly shared a very small peek at other information that was out there. At no time have I tried to claim that the bible does not have validity, however, I would like to bring to people's attention that there are plenty of other people who believe just as firmly in their religious beliefs and base their religious beliefs on a different religious text.
So to answer your question, if you feel that you have sufficently investigated the question of who God is then good for you. However, I do not put enough trust in myself to claim that I could ever fully understand God and therefore I will continue looking for the best answer.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
...
So to answer your question, if you feel that you have sufficently investigated the question of who God is then good for you. However, I do not put enough trust in myself to claim that I could ever fully understand God and therefore I will continue looking for the best answer.
That makes sense, but don't confuse having faith in the Bible as understanding all there is to know about God. I've studied the origins of the Bible and know it's contents quite a bit, but I hardly have scratched the surface of who God is.
...
So to answer your question, if you feel that you have sufficently investigated the question of who God is then good for you. However, I do not put enough trust in myself to claim that I could ever fully understand God and therefore I will continue looking for the best answer.
That makes sense, but don't confuse having faith in the Bible as understanding all there is to know about God. I've studied the origins of the Bible and know it's contents quite a bit, but I hardly have scratched the surface of who God is.
ophiura
Active Member
Originally Posted by lil' tanker
hmmmm... you know what I just realized you guys have been saying that this poll is extremely one sided right? But how much more one sided is the "do you believe in evolution" thread I haven't seen anyone say anything about that???? I wonder why does anyone know? or am I the only one that feels this way?
The evolution poll is not one sided as it is simply phrased as a "yes or no" answer. The question posed here is loaded. You believe in a creator who created the universe, or you are an atheist. That is in no way similar to the evolution question which can be answered with "God" at all.
hmmmm... you know what I just realized you guys have been saying that this poll is extremely one sided right? But how much more one sided is the "do you believe in evolution" thread I haven't seen anyone say anything about that???? I wonder why does anyone know? or am I the only one that feels this way?
The evolution poll is not one sided as it is simply phrased as a "yes or no" answer. The question posed here is loaded. You believe in a creator who created the universe, or you are an atheist. That is in no way similar to the evolution question which can be answered with "God" at all.
socal57che
Active Member
I wrote a large post for this spot and deleted it before depressing the "submit reply" button.
I am rather proud of myself.
I am rather proud of myself.
darknes
Active Member
Here's an interesting article on a Catholic scholar's view of creation in the Bible: http://www.americancatholic.org/News.../CU/ac1007.asp
A few parts I thought were interesting:
Many evolutionary scientists are deeply Christian. There is no necessary conflict between science and religion, provided that each respects the limits of its own way of seeking understanding. This has been recognized down through the centuries, e.g., by St. Augustine (d. 430), St. Thomas Aquinas (d. 1274), Pope Leo XIII (Providentissimus Deus, 1893), Pope John Paul II (Address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Oct. 3, 1981), and Pope Benedict XVI (Speech to seminarians, Castel Gandalfo, July 25, 2007).
Third, conflict does indeed occur when these limits are violated. This, by the way, can happen on either side. On the one hand, there are scientists who appeal to evolution as evidence to reject faith in God. This is wrong. But, on the other hand, the attempt to turn religious faith into science is the same mistake, but in the opposite direction. Both creationism and intelligent design fail in this regard. Creationism is based on a wholly inadequate understanding of biblical texts. Intelligent design tries to pass off as science a philosophical position in a way that many Catholic theologians would find inadequate.
A few parts I thought were interesting:
Many evolutionary scientists are deeply Christian. There is no necessary conflict between science and religion, provided that each respects the limits of its own way of seeking understanding. This has been recognized down through the centuries, e.g., by St. Augustine (d. 430), St. Thomas Aquinas (d. 1274), Pope Leo XIII (Providentissimus Deus, 1893), Pope John Paul II (Address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Oct. 3, 1981), and Pope Benedict XVI (Speech to seminarians, Castel Gandalfo, July 25, 2007).
Third, conflict does indeed occur when these limits are violated. This, by the way, can happen on either side. On the one hand, there are scientists who appeal to evolution as evidence to reject faith in God. This is wrong. But, on the other hand, the attempt to turn religious faith into science is the same mistake, but in the opposite direction. Both creationism and intelligent design fail in this regard. Creationism is based on a wholly inadequate understanding of biblical texts. Intelligent design tries to pass off as science a philosophical position in a way that many Catholic theologians would find inadequate.