Do you believe in evolution?

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Whether or not evolotion is or is not real it's the best theory out there. If you do not believe in it then what is the alternative? If you have a differing view then PLEASE show some evidence and don't base it on faith.

Does God exist? I find it interesting that so much attention is given to this debate. The latest surveys tell us that over 90% of people in the world today believe in the existence of God or some higher power. Yet, somehow the responsibility is placed on those who believe God does exist to somehow prove that He really does exist. To me, I think it should be the other way around.
However, the existence of God cannot be proven or disproved. The Bible even says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists, “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). If God so desired, He could simply appear and prove to the whole world that He exists. But if He did that, there would be no need for faith. "Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed'” (John 20:29).
That does not mean, however, that there is not evidence of God’s existence. The Bible declares, “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world” (Psalm 19:1-4). Looking at the stars, understanding the vastness of the universe, observing the wonders of nature, seeing the beauty of a sunset – all of these things point to a Creator God. If these were not enough, there is also evidence of God in our own hearts. Ecclesiastes 3:11 tells us, “…He has also set eternity in the hearts of men…” There is something deep down in our beings that recognizes that there is something beyond this life and someone beyond this world. We can deny this knowledge intellectually, but God’s presence in us and through us is still there. Despite all of this, the Bible warns us that some will still deny God’s existence, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” (Psalm 14:1). Since over 98% of people throughout history, in all cultures, in all civilizations, on all continents believe in the existence of some kind of God – there must be something (or someone) causing this belief.

 

[reefreak29]

In addition to the Biblical arguments for God’s existence, there are logical arguments. First, there is the ontological argument. The most popular form of the ontological argument basically uses the concept of God to prove God’s existence. It begins with the definition of God as “that than which no greater can be conceived.” It is then argued that to exist is greater than to not exist, and therefore the greatest conceivable being must exist. If God did not exist then God would not be the greatest conceivable being - but that would contradict God's very definition. A second is the teleological argument. The teleological argument is that since the universe displays such an amazing design, there must have been a Divine designer. For example, if earth were even a few hundred miles closer or further away from the sun, it would not be capable of supporting much of the life it currently does. If the elements in our atmosphere were even a few percentage points different, every living thing on earth would die. The odds of a single protein molecule forming by chance is 1 in 10243 (that is a 10 followed by 243 0’s). A single cell is comprised of millions of protein molecules.
A third logical argument for God’s existence is called the cosmological argument. Every effect must have a cause. This universe and everything in it is an effect. There must be something that caused everything to come into existence. Ultimately, there must be something “un-caused” in order to cause everything else to come into existence. That “un-caused” something is God. A fourth argument is known as the moral argument. Every culture throughout history has had some form of law. Everyone has a sense of right and wrong. Murder, lying, stealing, and immorality are almost universally rejected. Where did this sense of right and wrong come from if not from a holy God?
Despite all of this, the Bible tells us that people will reject the clear and undeniable knowledge of God and instead believe a lie. Romans 1:25 declares, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator - who is forever praised. Amen.” The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in God, “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - His eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).
People claim to not believe in God because it is “not scientific” or “because there is no proof.” The true reason is that once people admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from God (Romans 3:23; 6:23). If God exists, then we are accountable for our actions to Him. If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us. I believe that is why evolution is so strongly clung to by many in our society - to give people an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.
Allow me one last argument for God’s existence. How do I know God exists? I know God exists because I speak to Him every day. I do not audibly hear Him speaking back to me, but I sense His presence, I feel His leading, I know His love, I desire His grace. Things have occurred in my life that have no other possible explanation other than God. God has so miraculously saved me and changed my life that I cannot help but to acknowledge and praise His existence. None of these arguments in and of themselves can persuade anyone who refuses to acknowledge what is so plainly clear. In the end, God’s existence must be accepted by faith (Hebrews 11:6). Faith in God is not a blind leap into the dark, it is safe step into a well-lit room where 90% of people are already standing.

 

[jmick]

Facts > Faith

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by itom37
The entropy of the universe is certainly increasing, but an open system like the earth can increase in order. If you put energy in, you can get more order out. You can put a book that fell off of a shelf back up on it, increasing order and decreasing entropy, but overall you increased entropy by the molecules your body metabolized to make the ATP or whatever that fueled your body to put the book up. Using entropy to discredit evolution is incredibly misinformed.
As is the idea that you can't increase genetic information.
Yes and no.
The Law of Entropy states that all things tend towards disorder unless acted upon by an outside force.
The Law does indeed contradict Evolution. Furthermore, citing genetic drift as a building block for evolution is weak. Genetic drift weakens a species and leads to infertility; not new species.

 

[jerthunter]

A belief in God or Evolution does not seem to preclude a belief in the other. I suppose if you believed that the two beliefs cannot both coexist then you might have an agenda to disprove what you feel is a threat to your belief. I personally have no agenda, I look at the facts and take them for what they are. I am not out to prove anything, only to learn as much as I can and interpret the findings as best I can.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Whether or not evolotion is or is not real it's the best theory out there. If you do not believe in it then what is the alternative? If you have a differing view then PLEASE show some evidence and don't base it on faith.
So you have faith in one but wish to exclude it from others?

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Facts > Faith

the Bible tells us that people will reject the clear and undeniable knowledge of God and instead believe a lie. Romans 1:25 declares, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator - who is forever praised. Amen.” The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in God, “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - His eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).
People claim to not believe in God because it is “not scientific” or “because there is no proof.” The true reason is that once people admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from God (Romans 3:23; 6:23). If God exists, then we are accountable for our actions to Him. If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us. I believe that is why evolution is so strongly clung to by many in our society - to give people an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.

 

[teen]

Originally Posted by team2jndd
haha that made me laugh pretty hard im not going to lie.
lol, he was asking for it.
at least somebody has a sense of humor on these forums.

 

[jerthunter]

Oh, one more thing that might be interesting to look at is the genetic similarities between chimps and huimans. Look at how many chromosome pairs humans have and how many chimps have. Look at the relative sizes and the placement of genes. You should notice that most of the chromosomes are extremely similar in size and gene arrangement. You should also notice that chimps have an extra pair of chromosomes compared to humans, also this extra pair and one other chromosome do not seem to match up to any of the human chromosomes. However, if you take the two chromosomes I mentioned from the chimps you will notice that their centromere is located near the ends, actually in the telemores of the chromosomes, and if you places these two chromosomes with their centrometers close together they suprisingly match up very well to the last human chromosome which has its centromere near the center.

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Oh, one more thing that might be interesting to look at is the genetic similarities between chimps and huimans. Look at how many chromosome pairs humans have and how many chimps have. Look at the relative sizes and the placement of genes. You should notice that most of the chromosomes are extremely similar in size and gene arrangement. You should also notice that chimps have an extra pair of chromosomes compared to humans, also this extra pair and one other chromosome do not seem to match up to any of the human chromosomes. However, if you take the two chromosomes I mentioned from the chimps you will notice that their centromere is located near the ends, actually in the telemores of the chromosomes, and if you places these two chromosomes with their centrometers close together they suprisingly match up very well to the last human chromosome which has its centromere near the center.

and john kerry would have won the election if he didnt lose

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
So you have faith in one but wish to exclude it from others?

bingo

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
and john kerry would have won the election if he didnt lose
I do not see what that statment has to do with anything I said.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Oh, one more thing that might be interesting to look at is the genetic similarities between chimps and huimans. Look at how many chromosome pairs humans have and how many chimps have. Look at the relative sizes and the placement of genes. You should notice that most of the chromosomes are extremely similar in size and gene arrangement. You should also notice that chimps have an extra pair of chromosomes compared to humans, also this extra pair and one other chromosome do not seem to match up to any of the human chromosomes. However, if you take the two chromosomes I mentioned from the chimps you will notice that their centromere is located near the ends, actually in the telemores of the chromosomes, and if you places these two chromosomes with their centrometers close together they suprisingly match up very well to the last human chromosome which has its centromere near the center.
I believe humans and bananas have 70% identical dna. Did we evolve from bananas?

(true fact, but I'm being dumb)
Doesn't it make sense that two very similar mammals would have very similar DNA? There isn't much that makes us different than chimps: our DNA should be very similar.

 

[lazypinoy]

i believe in evolution. if we didnt evolve from something, then where is our fossils from the dinosaur era? im just asking cuz i wanna kno too. have we found any fossils of us from 65 million years ago? i mean if we didnt then we must have evolved from one of our distant ancestors/species whatever. im not trying to be a smarta**. im just curious. and i dont want to mix god into this.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
So you have faith in one but wish to exclude it from others?
Their are links in the evolution chain that are missing but there are also facts that help to support it.
I'm sorry, I just can't believe that we all came from Adam and Eve, who in turn were made from mud/dirt. Genetically speaking, isn't there a problem with this? Wouldn't there have been mass incent and all kinds of issues associated with that?

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
A belief in God or Evolution does not seem to preclude a belief in the other. I suppose if you believed that the two beliefs cannot both coexist then you might have an agenda to disprove what you feel is a threat to your belief. I personally have no agenda, I look at the facts and take them for what they are. I am not out to prove anything, only to learn as much as I can and interpret the findings as best I can.
I completely agree with this.

Christians can believe in both evolution and God.
I just see more evidence to disprove evolution than to prove it. We should be seeing fossils of intermediate species all over, yet none has been found. That seems crucial to me for evolution.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Their are links in the evolution chain that are missing but there are also facts that help to support it.
I'm sorry, I just can't believe that we all came from Adam and Eve, who in turn were made from mud/dirt. Genetically speaking, isn't there a problem with this? Wouldn't there have been mass incent and all kinds of issues associated with that?
My belief is that there was

[hr]
. Adam and Eve's children reproduced with one another.
However, I believe the first humans were created perfect so there was no birth defects. As generations have passed, genetic mutations and defects have entered our DNA, so we cannot reproduce with close relatives.

 

[darknes]

I'm actually suprised by the results of the poll.
I didn't think the two answers would be so close.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Darknes
I believe humans and bananas have 70% identical dna. Did we evolve from bananas?

(true fact, but I'm being dumb)
Doesn't it make sense that two very similar mammals would have very similar DNA? There isn't much that makes us different than chimps: our DNA should be very similar.
First, lets clarify something. The theory of the evolution of man does not say that man evolved from chimps, rather it says that both share a common ancestor. If you follow it back far enough the evolution also says that humans and bananas have a common ancestor.
I think a MAJOR problem that people have with this arguement is they get some crazy idea of what they think evolution is. Perhaps if people did some reading about what they wished to disprove they might not find it so confusing, or maybe they could find something wrong with it and contribute to furthering the study.

 

[texasmetal]

Originally Posted by Darknes
There is no evidence.
Why do we not see any intermediate species? Why has there never been a fossil found with partially formed organs or bones? If evolution were true, shouldn't there be more intermediate fossils found instead of individual species??
If evolution were true, and everything evolved from single cells, why are species of creatures so distinct? I would think everything would be a big mixture, making it very hard to tell the difference between species.
Take dogs for example. Chihuahua/Great Dane. These are absolutely two completely different species of canines. However, their geneology traces back to the same animals. Wolves. Time and mans breeding techniques have turned the same animals into totally different animals, with not only different sizes and appearances, but other traits, like smell, speed, sight, and personality.
Boston Terriers weren't magically created or mysteriously appeared. They were bred out of PitBulls, Boxers, and various other small terrier dogs. This is mankinds doing, but none the less, our tampering created a new creature, fit for different lifestyle than its ancestors.
Snakes once had legs. This is proven by fossils. Matter of fact, male Boa Constrictors still have remnants of legs in their skeleton.
Evolution is adaptation. Adaptation is evolution. I'm not going to bother looking up the article, but viable Tyranosaurus DNA was found, and when compared with creatures alive today, it was found they contain the same sequences as a newt and a chicken, among other things that still roam the Earth today. Therefore, showing newts and chickens are very distantly related.
We only have around 5,000 years worth of our own history, so we have no idea where we came from. We've been here a whole lot longer, we know that much. We don't know what kind of situations led certain people to become who they are, with the traits they have. People are all people, right? No matter what race/ethnicity, we all share the same genetic makeup, yet some of us are white, black, tall, short, large, small, squinty eyes, red hair, blond hair... we are all very different, but it's pretty plain to see, we are all the same species. Yet at the same time it's easy to see our environments have played a role in our overall appearance, and other traits, like how well we cope with our environment. Different groups of different people, in different locations, with different climates, are all very different from each other. I say it again, adaptation is evolution. It shouldn't be something as durastic as growing wings or webbed feet.
I personally believe, and this will sound silly to some of you, that pretty much everything here came here via asteroids, meteorites, etc. Frozen in a chunk of rock, only to grow and adapt over the past however many billion years the Earth has been around. Now that some of you probably think I'm a nutcase, I'll go on about my business. I'll just say, I find it amazing how clearly these things are right in front of our face, especially in this hobby, but some cannot see it.
Happy debating.