Don't Tread on me is so 1800..........

darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800#post_3331052
Yea Darth, I've been 'traveling abroad', protecting your freedoms by tracking down 'bad guys' that have been infiltrating our military networks overseas. Actually caught a few this time. I honestly don't have a clue what you're talking about tracking people's access in public libraries. I don't have a problem with it, considering the pervs like to go to the local library and surf porn right in front of small girls sitting next to him. As far as this scanning/ pat down issue? You're right, if you don't want to adhere to the policies, don't fly. The new system isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. The pat downs wouldn't be necessary if the Conservative fear mongers didn't throw out all these myths about how the radiation from this scanner would make you impotent, or cause an immediate heart attack. From everything I've read, the scanners have been shown to be safe. But they have to have alternative measures in place for those that have refused. This country is lucky that all they do is pat the inside of your leg and your butt with the back of their hand. Try traveling to some of these foreign countries where they may suspect you carrying contraband. One of my employees was coming out of Turkey, and some 'red flag' went off, and they took him in the back for a COMPLETE body search. Imagine having to take every stitch of clothing off, lean over on a table, and have a probe push up your rear looking for 'substances'. If he would have refused, they would've throw him in jail, period. When you're on their turf, they make tthe rules. He did absolutely nothing wrong, just mistaken for another person with the same name. Needless to say, he won't be going back to Turkey anytime soon.
Missing my point...as well as most people that take issue with this procedure.
How does the pat down find the "implant" Bomb? How does the pat down find the "underwear bomber"? Especially since Islamic Women in Burkas are exempt from the pat down?
Darth (Flying Burka) Tang
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
The other hilarious thing is they were forcing Piloits to go through the scanners and Pat downs. For some reason I don't think the Pilot needs a bomb if he wants to harm everyone aboard the plane he is flying...Just my thought.
Those that say they are fine with the pat downs...what if the person they previously patted down had crabs or the warts and they ran their hand inside their underwear line and you are next for the pat down?
Schools have had a lot of shootings...maybe we should start patting down the kids entering the schools now as well...all of them, in the same manner.
What is even more hilarious....This whole patdown thing has the potential to bottle up a lot of things...The terrorists no longer need to board a plane to blow up hundreds of people...Just get in line at the security checkpoint....Seriously, the pat down does not make things safer...
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331237
The other hilarious thing is they were forcing Piloits to go through the scanners and Pat downs. For some reason I don't think the Pilot needs a bomb if he wants to harm everyone aboard the plane he is flying...Just my thought.
You would think they know that already from 9/11
Those that say they are fine with the pat downs...what if the person they previously patted down had crabs or the warts and they ran their hand inside their underwear line and you are next for the pat down?
EWWWWW...Don't they change their gloves after each "pat down"???
Schools have had a lot of shootings...maybe we should start patting down the kids entering the schools now as well...all of them, in the same manner.
Wait....that will be next...some schools already have metal detectors
What is even more hilarious....This whole patdown thing has the potential to bottle up a lot of things...The terrorists no longer need to board a plane to blow up hundreds of people...Just get in line at the security checkpoint....Seriously, the pat down does not make things safer...
Or go to a Pro Sports arena
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaKnight http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800#post_3331158
My thing with "flying is not a right" is well, it sort of is. Let's use the driving example first. "Driving is a privilege, not a right." True, and I agree with what the specifics are meant with that quote. Driving on public roads provided by local/state/federal governments is absolutely a privilege and you must abide by their rules. However, the mere act of a consumer purchasing an automobile from a company, the government doesn't, and shouldn't have any say in. From a strictly economic point of view, if someone with 4 DUI's who will never drive again wanted to purchase a car, if somehow they could afford it, I guess technically sh/would be allowed to do so.
Getting back to flying and being groped, what you are doing when you purchase a plane ticket, is basically a service contract being yourself and a commercial airline. There isn't any government airlines yet (please spare me the bailout jazz). I do however fully realize how muddy the water are. Airports are all entirely government entities, paid for with tax dollars, and the whole operation is very heavily regulated. However, my point is that the core, you have, or should have, every right to see the deal you purchased from the commercial airline honored, whether or not you are fine with seeing your wife/child/whatever fondled by a GED achieving TSA agent....
My other point which I mentioned in the other thread, but was already hit on, in this one, is where is this going to end? Body scans and pat-downs are just response to present-day threats. What happens as terrorist tech grows? Are we then going to be subject to full body searches, just to fly?
Have you ever read the back of your ticket? Take a look at one some time and see exactly how many of your "rights" you are giving away to the airlines and the TSA. Here's a couple of excerpts from Continentals 'Contract Of Carriage':
B)
This Contract of Carriage is subject to applicable laws, regulations, rules, and security directives imposed by governmental agencies, including but not limited to those imposed during or as a result of a national emergency, war, civil unrest or terrorist activities. In the event of a conflict between the Rules contained herein and such government laws, regulations, rules, security directives and their corresponding effects on CO’s operation, the latter shall prevail.
[list type=decimal]
[*]
SCREENING OF PASSENGERS AND BAGGAGE
[/list type=decimal]
Passengers and/or their baggage are subject to security screening, including but not limited to, security profiling, physical pat-downs and inspections, x-ray screening, manual bag searches, questioning of Passengers, and use of electronic or other detectors or screening or security devices, in the sole discretion of the government, airport or CO, and with or without the Passenger’s presence, consent or knowledge. Neither CO nor its employees or agents is liable for any damage, loss, delay (including refusal to transport), confiscation of property, injury or other harm relating to or arising out of security screening or Passenger's failure to submit to or comply with such security screening.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331227
Missing my point...as well as most people that take issue with this procedure.
How does the pat down find the "implant" Bomb? How does the pat down find the "underwear bomber"? Especially since Islamic Women in Burkas are exempt from the pat down?
Darth (Flying Burka) Tang
As I stated, it isn't a perfect system. The bottom line is, if a terrorist really wanted to get something on a plane, they could. You can still take the 3 oz. liquids in your carry-on luggage. Do you think the airport security screenings detect something like Nitro in one of those bottles? Sulfuric Acid?
The latest little trick the terrorists tried is putting printer toner cartridges on cargo planes loaded with explosives. Now the TSA no longer allows toner cartridges weighing more than 16 oz. on a plane. Thanks to the Shoe Bomber, we have to waste our time taking our shoes off. If I'm not mistaken, this stupid scanner can't even check your shoes. They still want them through the standard X-Ray machine.
This new system is simply meant as a deterrent. The 'expert terrorist' could circumvent it without any problems. What it does is cause these 'wannabe terrorists' to think twice about trying to sneak something on a plane. This system would've caught the Underwear Bomber.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331337
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331329
This new system is simply meant as a deterrent. The 'expert terrorist' could circumvent it without any problems. What it does is cause these 'wannabe terrorists' to think twice about trying to sneak something on a plane. This system would've caught the Underwear Bomber.
A deterrent or punishment for not voting democrat...
I see you still have your "Dead Unless Your Red" mentality. Last time I read, the Reps are the majority in the House. What excuses are you going to have when things are still are in the crapper 6 months from now?
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331321
Have you ever read the back of your ticket? Take a look at one some time and see exactly how many of your "rights" you are giving away to the airlines and the TSA. Here's a couple of excerpts from Continentals 'Contract Of Carriage':
And other then the legal bit to CYA themselves, do you think they added that just because they wanted to, or is that something more like the airlines are forced to do, because of the government, to get you to comply with their rules?
So do you personally take issue with muslim women being exempt from body scans, and pat-downs only consisting of the head/neck?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranberry http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800#post_3331226
I don't think I quite get your point in how it relates to flying.
My point is this, and this should also help answer my response to bio as well....
We are reaching the point people will stop flying because of the rules/mandates/actions from government agencies. When we purchase a plane ticket, we are purchasing it from a company, not the government. The government doesn't stand to lose revenue because people stop flying. The struggling airlines will. Are the airlines forcing pat downs? Are the airlines forcing 10 year old kids to strip at the gate? No, the government is.
So when someone says 'flying is not a right, it's a privilege' or 'if you don't like it, don't fly' does nothing to help the airlines sell tickets, nor does it help justify reasonable, or unreasonable actions by the government. Let's not forget that is the exact reason we are able to fly. Companies provide a service to you at a cost they can turn a profit. Flying is not a public transportation system. I firmly believe US citizens have the right to purchase 'reasonable' goods or services. When the actions of the government start to interfere with that, then I take issue.
Don't get wrong, I fully understand what they are doing, they're honestly trying to keep us safe. However, some of the methods they've chosen to do and the results from them, I may not agree with, and I definitely am not the type of person to sat back and say okay.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331449
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331337
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331329
This new system is simply meant as a deterrent. The 'expert terrorist' could circumvent it without any problems. What it does is cause these 'wannabe terrorists' to think twice about trying to sneak something on a plane. This system would've caught the Underwear Bomber.
A deterrent or punishment for not voting democrat...
I see you still have your "Dead Unless Your Red" mentality. Last time I read, the Reps are the majority in the House. What excuses are you going to have when things are still are in the crapper 6 months from now?
lol, come on, It was a joke. Not that I'd expect you to catch that... Last I read, the TSA falls under th executive branch. (not that I'd expect a non-government involved democrat to have even the basic understanding of government)
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331513
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331449
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331337
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331329
This new system is simply meant as a deterrent. The 'expert terrorist' could circumvent it without any problems. What it does is cause these 'wannabe terrorists' to think twice about trying to sneak something on a plane. This system would've caught the Underwear Bomber.
A deterrent or punishment for not voting democrat...
I see you still have your "Dead Unless Your Red" mentality. Last time I read, the Reps are the majority in the House. What excuses are you going to have when things are still are in the crapper 6 months from now?
lol, come on, It was a joke. Not that I'd expect you to catch that... Last I read, the TSA falls under th executive branch. (not that I'd expect a non-government involved democrat to have even the basic understanding of government)
Yea, yea, every single time a controversial political issue gets discussed on this board, you throw your little "It's the Democrats/Liberals/Obama's/Anything Left fault" jab and insult. When someone confronts you about it, "It's a joke". You hate that side of the political party, I get it. Hopefully you'll see one day that it's not just that group that's screwing up this country. It's pretty much balanced on both sides of the fence.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaKnight http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331477
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331321
Have you ever read the back of your ticket? Take a look at one some time and see exactly how many of your "rights" you are giving away to the airlines and the TSA. Here's a couple of excerpts from Continentals 'Contract Of Carriage':
And other then the legal bit to CYA themselves, do you think they added that just because they wanted to, or is that something more like the airlines are forced to do, because of the government, to get you to comply with their rules?
So do you personally take issue with muslim women being exempt from body scans, and pat-downs only consisting of the head/neck?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranberry http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800#post_3331226
I don't think I quite get your point in how it relates to flying.
My point is this, and this should also help answer my response to bio as well....
We are reaching the point people will stop flying because of the rules/mandates/actions from government agencies. When we purchase a plane ticket, we are purchasing it from a company, not the government. The government doesn't stand to lose revenue because people stop flying. The struggling airlines will. Are the airlines forcing pat downs? Are the airlines forcing 10 year old kids to strip at the gate? No, the government is.
So when someone says 'flying is not a right, it's a privilege' or 'if you don't like it, don't fly' does nothing to help the airlines sell tickets, nor does it help justify reasonable, or unreasonable actions by the government. Let's not forget that is the exact reason we are able to fly. Companies provide a service to you at a cost they can turn a profit. Flying is not a public transportation system. I firmly believe US citizens have the right to purchase 'reasonable' goods or services. When the actions of the government start to interfere with that, then I take issue.
Don't get wrong, I fully understand what they are doing, they're honestly trying to keep us safe. However, some of the methods they've chosen to do and the results from them, I may not agree with, and I definitely am not the type of person to sat back and say okay.
So now you're saying "Big Brother" is holding a gun to the airlines head and telling them, "You vill do as I zay, or you vill pay ze consequences"?
Those rules and contracts have been in place since commercial flying began. Sure the airlines are doing a CYA. If not, every person allowed on their planes would turn around and hire some ambulance chaser to sue them for every dime they have because they claimed to be "mistreated and misunderstood". When it comes to commercial flying, the government has to be involved for not only the safety of the passengers, but also for the public who don't fly. Look at 9/11. How many thousands of innocent people were affected by a bunch of planes crashing into major structures and literally straight into the ground? The majority of those killed in that devastating event weren't even on one of the planes. That event is the entire reason why the FAA and TSA have gone to the extreme measures they've implemented. To protect not only the passengers on the plane, but keeping those who choose not to fly safe as well.
Hey, I'm all for going back to the good old days of the 70's where you could just walk onto a plane with anything you had in your pockets or bags. Forget the metal detectors and X-Ray scanners. Who needs them? Shoot, let's go ahead and allow Conceal And Carry back on the planes. That's a great deterrent for terrorists. "I won't bring a bomb onto the plane. The guy sitting next to me may 'Be Packing'. You crying "They're taking away my personal freedoms and liberties", yet if another event like 9/11 were to occur, you'd start screaming, "Why didn't the Feds do something to protect us from this happening again?" Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
All these extreme security measures have been a result of "Cause and Effect".
Back in the days, you could take your scissors, pocket knives, razors, anything sharp on a plane. Then some nutcase hijacks a plane using one of these items, so they ban them on planes.
Back in the 70's, you had 'smoking sections' on planes. Then it was determined second-hand smoke was bad for you, so they banned smoking on planes.
You have the guy who puts an explosive device in the inside of his shoe, then tries lighting it in mid-air, so now they ban any incendiary device on planes, and you have to take your shoes off and run them through an X-Ray machine.
Another person brings a caustic liquid on-board, so now you can't bring any liquid over 3 oz. through the security checkpoint, women can't bring their make-up, and you're not allowed to bring ANY food or drinks through the security checkpoints (Don't tell me, this is a ploy by the airlines and the government to make a profit on you by making you pay $5 for a Big Mac).
Now you have some kid stick an explosive device in his shorts, so they have to implement this extreme scanning device and procedure to make sure that doesn't happen again.
So I guess the question is, what is different with this scanning/pat down procedure that vilolates your rights, that's any different from your other rights that have been denied with these other implemented procedures? Could it get to the point where they want to perform full body checks? If some idiot does manage to blow up a plane by sneaking some explosives on by sticking it up his rectum, maybe. If that's what it will take to insure the safety of all the passengers that boards hundreds of planes on a daily basis, so be it. They do it today in airports around the world. I've personally seen some of the extreme measures some of these foreign countries go through when it comes to security. I was in a country recently where every single piece of luggage that was put on our plane was opened and inspected. They looked at every article of clothing and personal items contained in anything you brought to the check-in. If you had ANY drug, it had to be in its original container. If it were a prescription drug, it had to be in its container that showed a valid script. If not, they took them. If they suspected any of your drugs may be illegal, you could be subjected to a full body cavity search. Is this extreme? Maybe. But from what I've read, that airport has never had a situation where one of their planes was involved with a terroristic act.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/381961/don-t-tread-on-me-is-so-1800/20#post_3331523
Yea, yea, every single time a controversial political issue gets discussed on this board, you throw your little "It's the Democrats/Liberals/Obama's/Anything Left fault" jab and insult. When someone confronts you about it, "It's a joke". You hate that side of the political party, I get it. Hopefully you'll see one day that it's not just that group that's screwing up this country. It's pretty much balanced on both sides of the fence.
Conservatives aren't the problem, it is republicans who take democrat ideas and massage them to make them palletable... And that I'm serious about.
You just like all the other rubes. You claim both sides are to blaim, yet every time you have an opinion you fall on a certain side... Then make up wild claims to support your conflicting statements.
 
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