Even I can't believe this one

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3147444
The myriad books I have read about the meat packing industry. Fast Food Nation to cite just one. Conagra in particular turns a blind eye to the practice, not just in meat packing but in many of their processing plants.
The construction/home improvement industries are also notorious.
The food service industry. Srsly - that guy washing dishes or working the line in every restaurant in the country that speaks not a word of English is a citizen? And their employers didn't at least suspect?
Taken together, that is a serious percentage of the workforce. Depending on the estimates one believes, between 20 and 40 million people are here illegally, yet the majority of their employers, people who are smart enough to run a successful business, don't know that? Sorry, not buyin it.
Just to reiterate: it is a crime to hire illegal immigrants and just like unknowingly receiving stolen property, ignorance is no excuse.
Just to reiterate: If someone presents you with the proper paper work you have complied with the law. It isn't up to employers to check the authenticity of the paperwork. In fact if they did people would be screaming racial profiling.
Some industries like construction it is hard to track down illegals because of the subcontractors are usually the ones hiring them and they are usually small enough to slip through. They did nail Swift a few years ago so it isn't like they aren't trying.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3147457
When it's to good to be true, to find employees working for below minimum wages...

You can finish this line...
How many companies out there do you seriously think are paying people under minimum wage? You are talking things like back alley sweat shops, not your run of the mill businesses.

 

[uneverno]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3147571
Just to reiterate: If someone presents you with the proper paper work you have complied with the law.
And if you buy a stolen car with a forged title, you've complied with the law as well. Not your responisibility to verify the title is it?
Doesn't mean a thing under the law, except when it comes to illegal immigrants.
Why?

 

[uneverno]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3147571
Just to reiterate: If someone presents you with the proper paper work you have complied with the law.
And if you buy a stolen car with a forged title, you've complied with the law as well. Not your responisibility to verify the title, is it?
All that means is that the judge will take it into account at your trial. You're still guilty of having committed a crime.
Seems there's a bit of a double standard when it comes to comparable law.
Why?

 

[uneverno]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3147571
Just to reiterate: If someone presents you with the proper paper work you have complied with the law.
And if you buy a stolen car with a forged title, you've complied with the law as well. Not your responisibility to verify the title, is it?
All that means is that the judge can take that into account at your trial. You're still guilty of having committed a crime.
Seems there's a bit of a double standard when it comes to comparable law.
Why?

 

[uneverno]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3147571
Just to reiterate: If someone presents you with the proper paper work you have complied with the law.
And if you buy a stolen car with a forged title, you've complied with the law as well. Not your responisibility to verify the title, is it?
All that means is that the judge can take that into account at your trial. You're still guilty of having committed a crime. You can plead all you want, but the judge may question why you weren't suspicious about the price of the car being 10k less than bluebook.
Seems there's a bit of a double standard when it comes to comparable law.
Why?

 

[mantisman51]

unever, I love you Man. That was epic! Priceless!

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3147683
And if you buy a stolen car with a forged title, you've complied with the law as well. Not your responisibility to verify the title, is it?
All that means is that the judge will take it into account at your trial. You're still guilty of having committed a crime.
Seems there's a bit of a double standard when it comes to comparable law.
Why?

I guess there would be a double standard if the comparison made any sense.
As long as the person in the car deal followed the rules as far as title transfer etc. they are a crime victim, not a criminal. No need for a judge. Same deal with the business owner. Unless you want to change the privacy laws it is impossible for them to know the SS number is bad until Social Security notifies them.

 

[mantisman51]

AAAAAHHHHH!!!!! reef, dude, if you come into possession of a stolen car, YOU ARE GUILTY of felony auto theft regardless of how you came in possession of it. That is basic law 101. Where is Crimzy when we need legal advice?

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3147702
AAAAAHHHHH!!!!! reef, dude, if you come into possession of a stolen car, YOU ARE GUILTY of felony auto theft regardless of how you came in possession of it. That is basic law 101. Where is Crimzy when we need legal advice?
Just like if you hired an illegal alien, UNLESS you didn't know it was an illegal alien. If you buy a car, are handed a title and bill of sale do you seriously think a DA is going to go after you for possession of a stolen car? Why would the business owner be any less a victim if he was handed a ID and given the social security number?

 

[uneverno]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3147706
Just like if you hired an illegal alien, UNLESS you didn't know it was an illegal alien. If you buy a car, are handed a title and bill of sale do you seriously think a DA is going to go after you for possession of a stolen car?
Absolutely. You could be money laundering.

 

[mantisman51]

True and I can feel for honest business owners who are fined and put out of business by that trap. Senator Steve Symms (of my home state of Idaho) was forced out of office when the apple packing company his family owned got pinched for it.

 

[mantisman51]

And Steve Symms was a great Senator.

 

[uneverno]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3147482
Now MOST of those type of companies you listed are usually small (and I mean on the small side 10-25 employees at most) that would employ these illegals. This is a small minority of companies hiring these people.
How can "MOST" also be a small minority?
If you mean it's a small minority of companies that are hiring the majority of illegal immigrants, then shutting those companies down ought to be a fairly simple process, no?

 

[uneverno]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3147706
Just like if you hired an illegal alien, UNLESS you didn't know it was an illegal alien. If you buy a car, are handed a title and bill of sale do you seriously think a DA is going to go after you for possession of a stolen car? Why would the business owner be any less a victim if he was handed a ID and given the social security number?
It's not a question of victimhood. It's a question of law.
Whether true or not on the part of the defendant, there is a reason the "I didn't know" plea is disallowed in court.
If you think that should be changed, I suggest you petition your representatives.
Should you succeed, then sit back and watch the crime rate (including illegal immigration) explode.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3147726
True and I can feel for honest business owners who are fined and put out of business by that trap. Senator Steve Symms (of my home state of Idaho) was forced out of office when the apple packing company his family owned got pinched for it.
I don't know what the circumstances were in that case but typically they don't go nuclear on a business unless they have pretty good proof they were complicit. I remember a string of cherry farmers had an issue too. I think one company had like 112 employees using the same SS number. Yeah, why would they have suspected anything

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3147738
It's not a question of victimhood. It's a question of law.
Whether true or not on the part of the defendant, the "I didn't know" plea is illegitimate in court.
If you think that should be changed, I suggest you petition your representatives.
Should you succeed, then sit back and watch illegal immigration explode.
It is a question of victim hood and I didn't know is perfectly valid in court. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, ignorance of the misdeeds of others is. The victim thought they were buying a car. They got a title and bill of sale. They followed the law and went to transfer title and register the car then discovered it was stolen and the buyer was given a forgery. The cops wouldn't even refer such a case to the DA, let alone the DA be stupid enough to file charges.
So it is with the business owner who follows the law. If they have been given ID and a Birth Certificate and SS number that appear to be authentic then they have also followed the law.
If you want the business owner to go the extra step to verify the information you first need to lobby Congress to change the privacy laws so they can. Good luck getting that past the ACLU.

 

[uneverno]

Ah, ok, let's run with that premise. (I'm not sure it's entirely valid, but for the sake of argument I will assume that it is.)
There is, therefore, nothing that can be done about illegal immigration. Well, except deporting 40 million people, which is logistically impossible.
That must be why the Fed, despite Constitutional mandate, does nothing.

 

[uneverno]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3147751
It is a question of victim hood and I didn't know is perfectly valid in court. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, ignorance of the misdeeds of others is.
Ah, ok, let's run with that premise. (I'm not sure it's entirely valid, i.e. I could say I didn't know the "owner" of the car was trying to pass stolen goods or that I didn't know the cash payment for the Lambo I was selling as a licensed car dealer came from drug money, both of which have resulted in convictions of the alleged innocent in court cases I've followed, but for the sake of argument let's assume that it is a legitimate excuse.)
There is, therefore, nothing that can be done about illegal immigration. Well, except deporting 40 million people, which is logistically impossible. We don't have the infrastructure or the manpower to do it at present, and to build either would cost the taxpayer too much money.
That must be why the Fed, despite Constitutional mandate, does nothing. They're being fiscally responsible.

 

[zman1]

You all are missing a good thread
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/366552/whole-new-level-of-irritation#post_3147733