Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/360#post_3492184
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/360#post_3492172
Science has proven global warming exists. The "flat earthers" just refuse to recognize the evidence. When the last time you saw a tornado hit New York City? There's been nationwide droughts that haven't been seen in more than 50 years. More violent hurricanes. More violent weather patterns. Artic Shelf melting away. Oh wait, that's right. It's just the Earth "flexing it's muscles" every millenium or so. Just keep thinking you're too smart for those "hoaxers". Meanwhile, don't complain when you have to pay $15/pound for steak, $5/gallon for milk, $3 for a loaf of bread, and $3 for an ear of corn.
Thread derail.
No way! Take global warming to another topic plez!
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/360#post_3492169
What about the multitude of holes in the theory of Creationism? Where's the Ark? Where's the tablets? Where's the proof Jesus was born in Jerusalem, or even existed at all? Where exactly was the Garden Of Eden? The only "physical" proof you have that there's a God is what's written in a centuries-old book. The Lucy bones ARE physical evidence. They are carbon dated to a specific time on Earth. That date pre-dates any of the claims Creationists use to validate their "theories".
Hi,
I don't really want to join in anymore and argue my point of view because I have more than had my say. I answered Young Pez as I did because he said nobody had touched on his point and answered his question...so I reminded him of the past posts that indeed gave examples of our (religious folks) holes in the theory. Any theory that has not been proven has holes or it would not be a theory but a proven fact.
I could answer my opinion on each of your statements but it's a waste of my time and energy. You really could care less, if the Ark were sitting in your back yard and Noah standing next it, you would still find some nasty argumant. Mostly beause you have made not believing your religion. To which you are entitled.
 
pezenfuego

pezenfuego

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/360#post_3492167
You have to be kidding...How can you say nobody has answered your question...Do you not understand what a missing link is? My goodness the whole thread is riddled with comments on the missing link. There are no monkey men...no fossils to support that there was ever a transition between man and ape. The Lucy bones could also be the fossilizsed bones of a child and it proved nothing...Do you honestly not remember those comments?
I do remember those comments. I do understand what a missing link is. Clearly you do not.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/380#post_3492196
Hi,
I don't really want to join in anymore and argue my point of view because I have more than had my say. I answered Young Pez as I did because he said nobody had touched on his point and answered his question...so I reminded him of the past posts that indeed gave examples of our (religious folks) holes in the theory. Any theory that has not been proven has holes or it would not be a theory but a proven fact.
I could answer my opinion on each of your statements but it's a waste of my time and energy. You really could care less, if the Ark were sitting in your back yard and Noah standing next it, you would still find some nasty argumant. Mostly beause you have made not believing your religion. To which you are entitled.
Nice deflection. You can ridicule someone's opinion on Evolution based on your premise that there's no physical proof of that theory, but when someone simply asks the same about the "holes" in the theories on religion, you ignore the obvious. Actually, if someone could produced such physical evidence as an actual Ark, I'd tend to believe more of the writings found in the Bible. However, pieces of wood of a boat dated back to the time Noah supposedly built it still wouldn't validate the claim of the entire Earth being succombed to water at a time man was alive. Were dinosaurs not present when Noah started grabbing all these pairs of animals and putting them on this boat? How about unicorns? Based on the vast amount of "animals" that are known to have existed through the centuries, how big was this boat to allow them all to fit on it? A dove supposedly brought Noah an olive branch to signify there was land. Is this the same dove as we know today? Wouldn't there be some sort of dove fossils carbon dated to that timeframe if doves did exist at that time?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
If we were to talk about man made global warming vs natural cycle I would see a wealth of convincing arguments against the man-made cause for climate change. Actually we have had that argument here before and I did see the viable arguments. However, in this topic, I have not seen any evidence whatsoever that is scientifically convincing against evolution. Faith is faith and science is science. The two don't have much common ground.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
To tell you the truth, there are many flood or world deluge stories coming from ancient cultures around the world, some of whom would not have even known about Hebrews or visa versa.....so, there is some evidence about this event based on the mythology of various ancient cultures.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Hi Flower, I read every word you wrote. I gained some insight and learned quite a bit because of your posts. It was not a waste of time, at least not for me. You and I see eye to eye on quite a few things and are not very far off on most of the others.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
I wonder if the notion of great world wide flooding has anything to do with the end of the last ice age.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Flower,
I have read (most) your posts and have tried my best to see it from your perspective. I try to never have a completely closed mind, and always strive to see others points of view. While I may not have agreed with some of the things that you have said, it has opened my eyes to a new perspective on religion. I really can not thank you enough for that. I have learned from you, and hopefully will continue to learn from you. But, keep in mind that I have also formed my own opinions of the world through my own experiences, research, and knowledge on the subject. Please stick here in the thread. You may feel like you have to defend yourself, but trust me, there is someone out there in this world that is reading your posts and is relating to them and understanding them and coming to know HaShem through your belief system. He or she may not come on this thread and tell you, but I am sure they are eternally grateful for your knowledge and wisdom on the subject.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/380#post_3492209
Hi Flower, I read every word you wrote. I gained some insight and learned quite a bit because of your posts. It was not a waste of time, at least not for me. You and I see eye to eye on quite a few things and are not very far off on most of the others.
Hi...You are such a sweetie and I appreiciate you speaking up becuase you thought I had lost confidence. I know that each time we open up with a conversation like we had with Darth, it is always enlightening (as it should be) for those following along.
I wasn't thinking what I wrote was a waste of time, but rather to argue with someone who has made it very clear he really has no interest... is a waste of my time and effort. If he had posed questions that he really wanted answered, I would have responded differently.
For example: Noah's ark may have been found, a team of Texas archaeologists have found a fossilized boat in Iran's Elburz mountain rangeon. The Bible places the Ark in the mountains of Ararat, a mountain range theologians believe spans hundreds of miles, which the team says is consistent with their find in Iran. It was even on CBS news, Good Morning America in 2006 ...Granted they THINK it might be Noah's ark, but for the neysayers...why is a boat that size on a mounian if it isn't?
I also have a book someplace here on all the artifacts that have been found over the years. People go to the tomb of Jesus yearly and a slew of other proofs that the people of the books are real.
Oh my...LOL...I hadn't read down the thread before I posted, it seems while I got the bird up, turned on the fish lights and got my coffee and sat down to answer Bang Guy, a bunch of you posted...LOL, I didn't rehash because I know by now everyone who read this thread while Darth and myself had our little debate, knows my point of view and others I'm sure would like to share theirs, I haven't left the thread...I was reading and enjoying what others had to say. I can learn and listen too you know.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/380#post_3492201
I do remember those comments. I do understand what a missing link is. Clearly you do not.
Dearheart,
A missing link that actually ties man to ape has not been found, the closest is a fossilized skeleton they found and are not sure what it means.
The discovery of this hominin was significant as the skeleton shows evidence of small skull capacity akin to that of apes and of bipidal upright walk akin to that of human's providing further evidence supporting the view that bipedalism preceded increase in brain size in human evolution
The body was small, so it could have been a childs fossilized skeleton not a little monkey-man. I have a small head compared to my granddaughter who has a mellon for a skull. My side of the argument was always that there were early humans and we certainly evolved, but we evolved from a line of HUMANS not monkeys, the modern monkey evolved from the monkey line of early monkeys. So the debate continues.
I'm glad you remember the comments. So I don't understand why you would claim nobody took a stabe at answering the question like we avoided it somehow. Obviously you meant we had not answered to your personal satisfaction and convince you. Since the argument has been around for a longer than your great, great granddaddy without any solid in your face proof on either side...what more did you really expect? Both sides can only argue what they believe based on what they have handled and touched. That is how we base and develope our opinions, and in the end each of us will develope our own.
 
pezenfuego

pezenfuego

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/380#post_3492221
Dearheart,
A missing link that actually ties man to ape has not been found, the closest is a fossilized skeleton they found and are not sure what it means.
The discovery of this hominin was significant as the skeleton shows evidence of small skull capacity akin to that of apes and of bipidal upright walk akin to that of human's providing further evidence supporting the view that bipedalism preceded increase in brain size in human evolution
The body was small, so it could have been a childs fossilized skeleton not a little monkey-man. I have a small head compared to my granddaughter who has a mellon for a skull. My side of the argument was always that there were early humans and we certainly evolved, but we evolved from a line of HUMANS not monkeys, the modern monkey evolved from the monkey line of early monkeys. So the debate continues.
I'm glad you remember the comments. So I don't understand why you would claim nobody took a stabe at answering the question like we avoided it somehow. Obviously you meant we had not answered to your personal satisfaction and convince you. Since the argument has been around for a longer than your great, great granddaddy without any solid in your face proof on either side...what more did you really expect? Both sides can only argue what they believe based on what they have handled and touched. That is how we base and develope our opinions, and in the end each of us will develope our own.
That's the entire point though, isn't it? The change is so gradual and the subjects so widespread that it is impossible to pinpoint exactly when the first human was created. Also, humans are apes. So you believe that if we go back to the beginning of our world, we will be able to mate with early humans? I have more, but I have to go to class.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Just a couple comments:
I keep hearing 'monkey". There are no theories I know of that further the idea of humans being direct decendents of monkeys.
Also, when speaking of evolution why are we focussing on humans when there are more complete examples in the animal kingdom.
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
If you actually look at pictures of the fossils found of Lucy and other homids like it, it is obvious that it was not just a small human.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_%28Australopithecus%29
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/09/060920-baby-photos.html
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/380#post_3492228
Just a couple comments:
I keep hearing 'monkey". There are no theories I know of that further the idea of humans being direct decendents of monkeys.
Also, when speaking of evolution why are we focusing on humans when there are more complete examples in the animal kingdom.
We focus on humans because the debate is centered on human evolution as opposed to humans suddenly being creating by God. This is at the crux of the science vs religion argument because people who believe in creation can only accept what is written in the religious text literally. Humans did not gradually evolved from lesser apes over millions or years; humans were created in the image of God. And that image is not an ape, or a primordial goo.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/380#post_3492217
Hi...You are such a sweetie and I appreiciate you speaking up becuase you thought I had lost confidence. I know that each time we open up with a conversation like we had with Darth, it is always enlightening (as it should be) for those following along.
I wasn't thinking what I wrote was a waste of time, but rather to argue with someone who has made it very clear he really has no interest... is a waste of my time and effort. If he had posed questions that he really wanted answered, I would have responded differently.
For example: Noah's ark may have been found, a team of Texas archaeologists have found a fossilized boat in Iran's Elburz mountain rangeon. The Bible places the Ark in the mountains of Ararat, a mountain range theologians believe spans hundreds of miles, which the team says is consistent with their find in Iran. It was even on CBS news, Good Morning America in 2006 ...Granted they THINK it might be Noah's ark, but for the neysayers...why is a boat that size on a mounian if it isn't?
I also have a book someplace here on all the artifacts that have been found over the years. People go to the tomb of Jesus yearly and a slew of other proofs that the people of the books are real.
Oh my...LOL...I hadn't read down the thread before I posted, it seems while I got the bird up, turned on the fish lights and got my coffee and sat down to answer Bang Guy, a bunch of you posted...LOL, I didn't rehash because I know by now everyone who read this thread while Darth and myself had our little debate, knows my point of view and others I'm sure would like to share theirs, I haven't left the thread...I was reading and enjoying what others had to say. I can learn and listen too you know.
Some previous Playboy Bunny recently went to that region looking for the Ark, and they couldn't find it.
Yes, they have validated the existence of some of the Apostle's, and also artifacts of that timeframe that coincide with readings in ther Bible. However, there's no physical evidence that Jesus actually was the person depicted in the book. Some say he was nothing more than a "magician" who traveled the country speaking his faith and performing acts to mesmerize his followers. I can go to Vegas today and watch a guy walk on water or turn water into wine. Scientist have debunked the Shroud Of Turin as being the "face of Jesus". The carboin dating and materials don't match up to the timeframe. Could there be this Almighty Power that oversees our daily lives? Possibly. However, I've never been given a "sign" or evidence that validates that argument. I'm the type of person that follows the mantra "seeing is believing". Until I "see", I don't have the conscience or mental fortitude to "believe". I've had these arguments with other religious zealots, and their standard response to my arguments is "You will find out He is real on Judgement Day". That may very well occur. Ironically, all I have to do is atone my sins and profess my belief in Him, and "All will be forgiven, and you make enter the gates of Heaven." At least that's what the nuns taught me the 5 years I went to Catholic school.
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/380#post_3492238
Ironically, all I have to do is atone my sins and profess my belief in Him, and "All will be forgiven, and you make enter the gates of Heaven." At least that's what the nuns taught me the 5 years I went to Catholic school.
Its even easier in the Jewish religion. Just throw some bread in running water on Rosh Hashannah
http://judaism.about.com/od/holidays/a/whatistashlich.htm
 
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