Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/720#post_3496256
Where are there still hittites?
LOL...
I hear the word Haiti in the news all the time, and assumed they were the Hittites. I googled Wikipedia and it says they disappeared in the 8th century BC. That shows you just how little I know about history and Geography. ...However, while I was very wrong on there still being Hittites today, if they didn't disappear until the 8th century, then Israel didn't wipe them totally out....wait...what century did Israel go into the promised land????
 
beth

beth

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Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/720#post_3496269
LOL...
I hear the word Haiti in the news all the time, and assumed they were the Hittites.
OMG!

What is interesting about Akenaten is that he broke completely from a polytheistic religion that was steadfast in Egypt for thousands of years. Most historians believe he was the first monotheist; however, if he ruled shortly after the Exodus, then his belief system you might say was heavily influenced by the Hebrew God---if it happened like the bibles says. In my view, his actions were so drastic and revolutionary, that something significant must have happened for him to do what he did.
Or, were the Hebrews, living in Egypt, influenced by Akenaten and adapted the concept of monotheism from him?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/740#post_3496282
OMG!

What is interesting about Akenaten is that he broke completely from a polytheistic religion that was steadfast in Egypt for thousands of years. Most historians believe he was the first monotheist; however, if he ruled shortly after the Exodus, then his belief system you might say was heavily influenced by the Hebrew God---if it happened like the bibles says. In my view, his actions were so drastic and revolutionary, that something significant must have happened for him to do what he did.
Or, were the Hebrews, living in Egypt, influenced by Akenaten and adapted the concept of monotheism from him?
I would say absolutely no, since this Pharaoh was alive around the time of the exodus. The Israelites knew of the ONE God of Father Abraham, 433 years earlier before they were even enslaved, and Jacob who grew up on Abraham's knee was 127 years old when his family went into Egypt after being sent for by Joseph. So that alone is over 500 years before the life and times of Akenaten.
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/720#post_3496269
LOL...
I hear the word Haiti in the news all the time, and assumed they were the Hittites. I googled Wikipedia and it says they disappeared in the 8th century BC. That shows you just how little I know about history and Geography. ...However, while I was very wrong on there still being Hittites today, if they didn't disappear until the 8th century, then Israel didn't wipe them totally out....wait...what century did Israel go into the promised land????
OK, that one gave me a good laugh! Leif Erikson and Columbus would have been very interested to hear how the Hitities managed to get from somewhere around Turkey to the Caribbean back then!
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/740#post_3496316
OK, that one gave me a good laugh! Leif Erikson and Columbus would have been very interested to hear how the Hitities managed to get from somewhere around Turkey to the Caribbean back then!
LOL...I'm glad some good came from my stupidity. A good laugh is always uplifting.
Wow...a whole race of people.... gone...I know HaShem ordered their demise because of great wickedness, but it made me so sad when I stopped to consider just what that means.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/740#post_3496302
I would say absolutely no, since this Pharaoh was alive around the time of the exodus. The Israelites knew of the ONE God of Father Abraham, 433 years earlier before they were even enslaved, and Jacob who grew up on Abraham's knee was 127 years old when his family went into Egypt after being sent for by Joseph. So that alone is over 500 years before the life and times of Akenaten.
But here is the general belief of historians, who piece together the history using records from many cultures.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Monotheism
Now, you see, Flower, why modern peoples question and question again the absoluteness of the Bible's record. So much other evidence contradicts it--including the origins of monotheism and the topic of this thread--evolution. If the Bible is the absolute truth, then the Hebrews were terrible record-keepers, because the Bible contradicts many other historical records that precedes the writing of the Bible.
You made a comment about the Egyptians not keeping good records. Believe me they did. They would write the year, the season, the month, the day in their record-keeping. In some instances, even the time of the day. Even the poor people knew how to write and were doing so. Not so with Hebrews. Or, at least, there is not evidence of that since much of their traditions and beliefs were orally passed down before the Bible was put together.
I understand that it comes down to Faith. But in our modern society, where facts take center-stage, you might acknowledge why so many people can not take the literal understanding of the Bible as absolute. And if that is acknowledged, then respect for that literal belief falls away. Those who still believe then must find, not a historical, but a Spiritual meaning to God. And that does not necessarily center around the history of the Hebrews.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/740#post_3496323
Didn't that happen all the time back then?
A whole race of people...? I don't know for certain, but I suppose so.
...see I learn from my mistakes...LOL
I was just so shocked to think about that, I hadn't given it much thought when I first read it. I guess because of the Holocaust the concept of genocide is just so raw now. I know the number of people were no where near the 6 million lost, but it was still genocide. I read a LITTLE of what kind of stuff the pagan cultures were involved in, and after just looking at some of the weird stuff still around in Africa alone......I totally understand why HaShem would erase them completely, and not want that kind of stuff spreading.
Every man, woman and child erased from existence. I think back when I read about it, I really didn't grasp how devastating and brutal it all was until now.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/740#post_3496331
A whole race of people...? I don't know for certain, but I suppose so.
...see I learn from my mistakes...LOL
I was just so shocked to think about that, I hadn't given it much thought when I first read it. I guess because of the Holocaust the concept of genocide is just so raw now. I know the number of people were no where near the 6 million lost, but it was still genocide. I read a LITTLE of what kind of stuff the pagan cultures were involved in, and after just looking at some of the weird stuff still around in Africa alone......I totally understand why HaShem would erase them completely, and not want that kind of stuff spreading.
Every man, woman and child erased from existence. I think back when I read about it, I really didn't grasp how devastating and brutal it all was until now.
The concept of this one and only true God - he is greedy isn't he? He isn't tolorant - yet wants everyone to be tolorant. Just so hypocritical. Human flaws rolled up in God - I don't think that is God, but a humans perception of what this God should be. People have been using the name of God to kill innocent people and civilizations for thousands of years. My all knowing, all powerful God would never want to kill anyone. It's just as bad now days - people, instead of using the name of God to conquor other peoples and plunder their villages in his name are now using him to gain money and spiritual power over others. Sickening, IMHO.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
I also wanted to make the comment....
"History is written by those who WIN."
The Jewish people have their history written - because they have survived for thousands of years. If those people that they had MURDERED in the name of their GOD were still around, maybe they would have an entirely different story?
 
beth

beth

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It is interesting how the Hebrews, Christians, and the Muslims are the biggest butchers in history--all for God's supposed will. Another reason why modern peoples have a tough time believing that the God of the Bible truly represents his real nature.
As for the Nazis, they actually murdered 14 million--the mentally ill, developmentally challenged, cripples, orphans---anyone who was "leaning" on society or considered sub-human--were gassed. The genocide of the Jews, in history, just takes center stage. Sadly, there is no voice for the millions of others that were murdered.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/740#post_3496359
It is interesting how the Hebrews, Christians, and the Muslims are the biggest butchers in history--all for God's supposed will. Another reason why modern peoples have a tough time believing that the God of the Bible truly represents his real nature.
As for the Nazis, they actually murdered 14 million--the mentally ill, developmentally challenged, cripples, orphans---anyone who was "leaning" on society or considered sub-human--were gassed. The genocide of the Jews, in history, just takes center stage. Sadly, there is no voice for the millions of others that were murdered.
14 million...14 million people.......the Nazis are hated by all for the evil they did, except for a few nuts who shave their heads and have the intelligence of a pea. So that would mean 8 million people are forgotten by the world.
The reason the genocide of the Jews is heard about so much is because their families won't let the world forget...I will never forget you! was shouted as their loved ones were torn from their grasp when they were separated. It has become our creed. Every Sabbath they are remembered in the synagogues, every year a candle is lit, we have Yom Hashoah, Holocaust remembrance Day, a day set aside for all of us to remember and learn about the horrors of the Holocaust, and recall the atrocity. We set up memorials and try to educate people so it will never happen again. The others who were murdered so horribly and not mentioned, are forgotten by their families....time passes, the world always forgets, but we will not allow ourselves to ever forget...
We always have someone come forward who lived thru it all, and tell us their story, so we won't forget. In public schools, it is mentioned fleetingly in a few paragraphs in a book, nothing is spoken of it in the churches, there is no day off from school to commemorate the day. So who's fault is it that 8 million are not mentioned?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
To be honest, many of those others that were experimented on and murdered were already forgotten by society. Placed in institutions. Orphanages were cleared out, reform schools were cleared out, jails and mental hospitals were cleared out, homes for the mentally and physically disabled were cleared out. A lot of this actually happened before the concentration camps. You could say that murder and disposal was perfected by the time concentration camps were set up. Poor Poland was a cesspool of the tortured and the dead.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/740#post_3496393
To be honest, many of those others that were experimented on and murdered were already forgotten by society. Placed in institutions. Orphanages were cleared out, reform schools were cleared out, jails and mental hospitals were cleared out, homes for the mentally and physically disabled were cleared out. A lot of this actually happened before the concentration camps. You could say that murder and disposal was perfected by the time concentration camps were set up. Poor Poland was a cesspool of the tortured and the dead.
That's the saddest thing I have ever heard. You could contact the school in your area and offer to do a presentation to educate the children. You could be the voice of all those forgotten, or some other method to get the people to pay attention...a moment of silence or something, even facebook could be used, they always have that click and share thing for the dumbest reasons....it would be nice to see something really worth sharing. I knew there were others besides the Jews, but I had no idea the numbers involved, they shouldn't be forgotten.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
"And now, a moment of silence for the people who were NOT Jews during WWII who lost their lives to the Nazi's." .... Just doesn't have a good ring to it.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
They were all people. It should be the Holocaust for all of those people. You have to wonder about Germans because even though the details of what was going on was not exactly out in the open, enough was seen and known about to make one wonder what would possess a whole nation to go along with it.
However, even our own country has some dark history along the same lines, so I guess we as humans are capable of the worst.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/740#post_3496401
They were all people. It should be the Holocaust for all of those people. You have to wonder about Germans because even though the details of what was going on was not exactly out in the open, enough was seen and known about to make one wonder what would possess a whole nation to go along with it.
However, even our own country has some dark history along the same lines, so I guess we as humans are capable of the worst.
Children can be very cruel to other children, so if little kids can be so mean...it isn't too hard to imagine what adults without a moral compass are capable of.
I found this .... the masses were not so forgotten after all. Thank you Beth, I have been educated, and our conversation was very enlightening.
The Holocaust (from the Greek ?????????? holókaustos: hólos, "whole" and kaustós, "burnt"),[sup][2][/sup] also known as the Shoah (Hebrew: ?????, HaShoah, "catastrophe"; Yiddish: ?????, Churben or Hurban, from the Hebrew for "destruction"), was the genocide of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, a programme of systematic state-sponsored murder by Germany, led by Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party, throughout German-occupied territory.tp:.2F.2Fbooks.google.co.uk.2Fbooks.3Fid.3DlpDTIUklB2MC.26pg.3DPA45_45.5D._.22The_Holocaust_is_commonly_defined_as_the_murder_of_more_than_5.2C000.2C000_Jews_by_the_Germans_in_World_War_II.22-2">[3][sup] and other >political and religious opponents, which occurred regardless of whether they were of German or non-German ethnic origin.[sup][8] This was the most common definition from the end of WWII to the 1960s.[sup][8] Using this definition, the total number of Holocaust victims is between 11 million and 17 million people.[9][/sup] Henry Friedlander defines the Holocaust as "the mass murder of human beings because they belonged to a biologically defined group", meaning "the Nazis applied a consistent and inclusive policy of extermination only against three groups of human beings: the handicapped, Jews, and Gypsies."[10][/sup]
Shabbot Shalom.
 
jerthunter

jerthunter

Active Member
I find it hard to believe in intelligent design based on what I would consider several design flaws in the development of us humans.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/740#post_3498275
I find it hard to believe in intelligent design based on what I would consider several design flaws in the development of us humans.
Did you know that all male humans began as females? Did you know that every human male on Earth has a small vestigial uterus on the back abdominal wall? Design flaws... absolutely. However, how can you look around at the complexities of nature and not be in awe of it and think that there isn't something greater then yourself in the universe? Even if that thing has no consciousness that we can imagine.
 
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