Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/180#post_3490986
I have a new question:
What are the dangers (consequences) of raising a child to believe in Intelligent Design?
What about raising a child to believe In Evolution?
What about teaching him/her both and letting him/her decide?
To quote Bill Nye, Science Guy, from a YouTube video:
"And I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, in your world that’s completely inconsistent with everything we observe in the universe, that’s fine, but don’t make your kids do it because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future."
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/200#post_3491022
To quote Bill Nye, Science Guy, from a YouTube video:
"And I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, in your world that’s completely inconsistent with everything we observe in the universe, that’s fine, but don’t make your kids do it because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future."
Yeah, I am skeptical about what was said. How much does your influence affect what kids believe when they grow up? To teach them that scientific explanations for phenomenon are less valid than religious explanations or that they will burn in a hell for not believing something will probably have an impact on what they believe. But maybe everyone is different. There are plenty of things I want to believe, but simply cannot. What about raising kids to be skeptical of all things? Do they need something to believe in for hope or comfort?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
This is a discussion and we are not here to convince anyone of anything. Its just a discussion. Since religion is in the mix, then the discussion is going to go to people's individual faith. If you ask about or comment on something, you may not get a reply you agree with. Keep it cool.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/200#post_3491026
Yeah, I am skeptical about what was said. How much does your influence affect what kids believe when they grow up? To teach them that scientific explanations for phenomenon are less valid than religious explanations or that they will burn in a hell for not believing something will probably have an impact on what they believe. But maybe everyone is different. There are plenty of things I want to believe, but simply cannot. What about raising kids to be skeptical of all things? Do they need something to believe in for hope or comfort?
I think kids are exposed to so many things and communications these days that most are going to come to their own conclusions about many things once they are adults. That's not to say that parents are not influential. A parent's role is to instill a moral center, teach right and wrong, responsibility, and love all along giving their child a right to be an individual.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member

Do they need something to believe in for hope or comfort?
The 2008 election should have shown you your answer to this.The largest block of young voters came out for hope................
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/180#post_3491019
[quote name="Flower url=/t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/180#
Yes, that's because pagan religions and modern Christianity are co mingled. People used to throw virgins in a burning volcano too, so old does not mean it has merit.
And who are you to say their benefits weren't any more valid than yours? A talking bush is so much more beleivable...
It's a fact that histories are written by the winners in a conflict. The story would be a hell of a lot different if the Egyptians had won too.... Wasn't it also your god that wanted king Solomon to cut a baby in half or that Samson lost his strength because some tart cut his hair? Those are just as believable as pele wanting human sacrifices
Well this has nothing to do with the thread but I feel it needs addressing...First Solomon has the bright idea to pretend to kill a baby to see who really cared enough for it to be it's mother. God had nothing to with it, except to have granted Solomon a brain to think with. Second, yes Sampson lost his strength because he was stupid enough to trust and fall in love with a slick chic. Do I believe those accounts?...absolutly. Do I care an iota that you think I an idiot for believing it...nope, not a bit.
I don't know about benifits really, since it seems no reward is really forthcoming until the end of days. Reward promise #1-A long life for caring for your parents is valid IMO because my poor old mother needs me, and I love her anyway. Reward #2- prosperity..valid IMO .I really do like the idea that if you work hard, stay honest that God notices and making money for your efforts just makes sense. Reward #3- Don't worry about your enemies...valid to me...I personally don't have any that I know of. I do kind of think HaShem granted that I live in the great USA is sort of a big blessing. If he gave Solomon a brain to think with, then it isn't a stretch to think he gave our troops the ability to be able to keep us safe.
I don't know what others get out of their religion and I don't really care. If you talk to me, I will tell you about mine.
As for the winners of the conflict...Lets see, the Egyptians had an army, the Hebrews were enslaved. They did not cause the water to turn to blood, or the frogs and lice and locusts to appear...they didn't spread boils nor block out the light of the sun for 3 days, and never raised a single hand to anyones firstborn. The warrior of that conflict was not a Hebrew slave.
My favorite account concerning pagans and God...Elijah, he told the 400 worshipers of Baal to pray to their moon god and he alone would pray to HaShem. They begged Baal to answer all day long... so that Elijah teased them and said, "maybe he is sleeping" (we get the saying...paid no more attention than the man in the moon from this account) In the end Elijah raised up his hands after building an alter and pouring water all over everything...He said Lord God...show them who is God! In answer a blast of fire came from the sky and consumed the sacrifice and licked up all the water. When he turned around all of the Baal worshipers were on there faces, declaring that our God is really God.
So folks, you do what you want, believe or worship what if anyone/anything you want...as for me and my house, we will serve HaShem.
GeoJ...I want my children to believe as I believe, and you can bet your bottom dollar I will teach them so. I have no intention for them to grow up faithless so they can vote, or accept whatever the educated theroy is of the day. I think every parent has that right as well. JMO
 

dragonzim

Active Member

GeoJ...I want my children to believe as I believe, and you can bet your bottom dollar I will teach them so. I have no intention for them to grow up faithless so they can vote, or accept whatever the educated theroy is of the day.  I think every parent has that right as well. JMO
Based on this statement, I am curious what you would do if your children decided not to follow you in your beliefs and either decided that a different religion was more to their way of thinking, or if they reject the very idea of religion altogether.
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
The world is a messed up place. But to be fair, it always has been. Some people refuse to bring children into the world because of how messed up it is. Perhaps the world being messed up is a good reason to bring children into it. You can teach these children your views and way of life so that they will grow up and make the world a better place. Maybe teaching them your religion is a part of this, or maybe that's senseless justification.
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
To come back to the point, people in this country are free to believe whatever they want, and parents are, for the most part, also free to pass those beliefs to their children. However, when a child walks into a biology classroom, that child should be learning the science of biology, as it is understood to be by biologists. The moment a religiously-derived "biology" enters the classroom the issue becomes "whose religion?". Google "flying spaghetti monster"' then defend why that theological explanation of life shouldn't also be taught.
 
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saltymac2012

Guest
What do all religions have in common? They all think that they are right. When none of them can prove anything.
 
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saltymac2012

Guest
so you are saying that you can petition the Lord with prayer?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/200#post_3491061
To come back to the point, people in this country are free to believe whatever they want, and parents are, for the most part, also free to pass those beliefs to their children. However, when a child walks into a biology classroom, that child should be learning the science of biology, as it is understood to be by biologists. The moment a religiously-derived "biology" enters the classroom the issue becomes "whose religion?". Google "flying spaghetti monster"' then defend why that theological explanation of life shouldn't also be taught.
So what is wrong with telling students that different religions believe in a supreme being who created all life and the scientific community has a theory that attempts to explain a natural creation to life and delve into it? There's nothing wrong with respecting religion.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/200#post_3491047
Based on this statement, I am curious what you would do if your children decided not to follow you in your beliefs and either decided that a different religion was more to their way of thinking, or if they reject the very idea of religion altogether.
I brought up my children to believe in God and honor him, I had three children, all are in their 30s, none really got onto my religion, they prefer Easter and xmas since their spouses do...I still love them all. I do my Holidays and they do what they want. They decided to let their children decide for themselves... So far the grandchildren (those old enough) love Nanas way of life and beg to come to my house for Hanukkah and Sukkot. They love trying to blow the Shofar on Rosh Hashanah and waving the Lulav in the Sukkah. My Granddaughters all know the Shabbat prayer, and listen quietly when I say the Shema each morning and night when they visit. All who visit are very careful to keep Kosher when they are at my house and ask which plate, pot or silverware to use.
I'm also sure the kids are glad for gifts at Xmas time...There is no arguing religion. All Christianity means to my sons is fun. My daughter cares and loves God, she picks out from the two what she wants to do, so she is a Jews for Jesus I guess. Her oldest 3 children told her they don't want to attend church, and beg to go to Temple with me.
I do wish they would all follow my faith, but I can't force them...So I live my life and be an example.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltymac2012 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/200#post_3491081
so you are saying that you can petition the Lord with prayer?
LOL...Of course. Now how and what I may ask of him, may be different than how or what you may ask of him. I have a prayer when I hear thunder for the first time in the year, a prayer for using something new for the first time, a prayer that when going to the bathroom that it all comes out okay (serously, its in my prayer book in Hebrew)...I say a prayer when I hear a siren, I say a prayer before Torah study or traveling. I petition HaShem to teach me, in spite of my silly thoughts and my own ways....to somehow get thru and teach me. To guide me thru life and keep my children safe.
I have been seeking and serving God since I was a young girl, he has done many things to let me know he is near. God is not a religion, he is a living breathing Entity. Religion is just the way we small minded humans decide to try and follow him, please him, and get to know him.
But this really isn't a thread on religion, but whether the schools should teach religion. Concerning that I say no, because what I want to teach my children about God is not what others may teach...and I like my way, just as I'm sure other religious parents like their way.
I think Evolution is as much a religion as any other, and I also think atheism is as well...because those who believe in it are equally as passionate as I am, and they spend all thier energy trying to prove that what they believe or lack thereof as truth.
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member

So what is wrong with telling students that different religions believe in a supreme being who created all life and the scientific community has a theory that attempts to explain a natural creation to life and delve into it? There's nothing wrong with respecting religion.
Nothing is wrong - in a comparative religion or philosophy (or, famously less sensitively, mythology) class. In a biology class - everything is wrong, since nothing in biology makes sense except in light of evolution (not my line, but I agree.)
 
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saltymac2012

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/200#post_3491091
LOL...Of course. Now how and what I may ask of him, may be different than how or what you may ask of him. I have a prayer when I hear thunder for the first time in the year, a prayer for using something new for the first time, a prayer that when going to the bathroom that it all comes out okay (serously, its in my prayer book in Hebrew)...I say a prayer when I hear a siren, I say a prayer before Torah study or traveling. I petition HaShem to teach me, in spite of my silly thoughts and my own ways....to somehow get thru and teach me. To guide me thru life and keep my children safe.
I have been seeking and serving God since I was a young girl, he has done many things to let me know he is near. God is not a religion, he is a living breathing Entity. Religion is just the way we small minded humans decide to try and follow him, please him, and get to know him.
But this really isn't a thread on religion, but whether the schools should teach religion. Concerning that I say no, because what I want to teach my children about God is not what others may teach...and I like my way, just as I'm sure other religious parents like their way.
I think Evolution is as much a religion as any other, and I also think atheism is as well...because those who believe in it are equally as passionate as I am, and they spend all thier energy trying to prove that what they believe or lack thereof as truth.
Why does my question make you laugh? Ive tried most of my life, as you say to get to know him, but with no response. I dont think of God as a him. As some old angry white guy sitting on a cloud looking down at the earth and at us with disgust in "his" eyes. I think its bigger than that, and foolish to think that he listens to our pittly wants. So I say you cannot petition the Lord with prayer. But maybe I used to have one until a wheel fell off............
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Why does my question make you laugh?  Ive tried most of my life, as you say to get to know him, but with no response.  I dont think of God as a him.  As some old angry white guy sitting on a cloud looking down at the earth and at us with disgust in "his" eyes.  I think its bigger than that, and foolish to think that he listens to our pittly wants.  So I say you cannot petition the Lord with prayer.   But maybe I used to have one until a wheel fell off............
"But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul.
What does this mean to you?
And this?
"The LORD also will be a refuge for the oppressed, A refuge in times of trouble. {10} And those who know Your name will put their trust in You; For You, LORD, have not forsaken those who seek You."
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltymac2012 http:///t/392782/evolution-vs-intelligent-design/200#post_3491098
Why does my question make you laugh? Ive tried most of my life, as you say to get to know him, but with no response. I dont think of God as a him. As some old angry white guy sitting on a cloud looking down at the earth and at us with disgust in "his" eyes. I think its bigger than that, and foolish to think that he listens to our pittly wants. So I say you cannot petition the Lord with prayer. But maybe I used to have one until a wheel fell off............
I laugh because lots of folks actually think they can't. God used to ignor me too. So I bothered him until he paid attention. I'm sure you have heard to enter the kingdom as a little child....Well, preachers always said that meant to trust, but one time when I was in my bathroom, my 3 yr old daughter was on the other side and wanted in. I ignored her hoping she would go away...she pulled on the knob, peeked an eye thru the keyhole, and called to me under the door, until I finally gave up and opened up for her. That's how a little child gets what they want.
God hears lots of people saying praise and asking him for whatever, and he likes to test us out to see if we really, really mean it. You will seek for him and find him, only when you seek him with all your heart. All your heart is a huge task. Paul once wrote that you must believe that he is, and a rewarder to all who seek him. Rabbis won't allow a person to convert upon the first request, they make you seek and if you give up...oh well you must not have wanted it too bad after all. All that to say...NEVER give up.
Darth, I didn't see your post until after I posted mine...we are saying the same thing. I don't think that's an accident either.
 
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