Explain this whole Wall Street protester thing!

reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
You have two basic screwups that lead to this. The push for more home loans to be made and allowing mortgages to be bundled as securities. At the time the push for home ownership made sense. Not sure what the idea behind the securities deal was.
I know someone who is way over her head on a home loan. She had one of those interest only deals that was coming due and I am sure is first in line to get a government bailout on her mortgage. She is single and bought a big fancy house to show her ex husband she doesn't need him. Yeah, thats what I want my tax money going for ***Headslap***
 
slice

slice

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/40#post_3426273
You have two basic screwups that lead to this. The push for more home loans to be made and allowing mortgages to be bundled as securities. At the time the push for home ownership made sense. Not sure what the idea behind the securities deal was.
I *mostly* agree with you. The social engineering experiment by our government artificially ballooned housing values. A 'house of cards' was set that normal market procedures would have deemed foolish. Government intervention caused this implosion.
The bundling of loans is an accounting gimmick to disguise the ruse on the balance sheet (dilute the smell).
If the "Occupy" rabble had any real understanding, they would have occupied Fannie and Freddy offices, then instead of marching to CEO's residences, they would have marched on Barney Frank.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
They should march on all of the above. Government, Barney, Bernake, and the banks. All are guilty, non have paid for their crimes against the American people.
 
slice

slice

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/40#post_3426393
They should march on all of the above. Government, Barney, Bernake, and the banks. All are guilty, non have paid for their crimes against the American people.
No argument here, (although you forgot Geithner) I do, however, hold the banks the least culpable. Capitalist do what capitalist do. They played by the rules* set upon them. Perhaps they should known better; seen the long term folly, but they were coerced by the strong arm of the House Financial Services Committee chairman, NOT someone the banks want to mess with.
*I still say that market forces, left alone, would not have caused this.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
out of curiosity..what crimes were committed? i see this phrase about this subject but no one can ever list the actual crimes.
darth (tang & ahole law offices) Tang
 
slice

slice

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/40#post_3426414
out of curiosity..what crimes were committed? i see this phrase about this subject but no one can ever list the actual crimes.
darth (tang & ahole law offices) Tang
No crime was committed. "Harm" would be a better term.
Or "legislative malpractice".
Continuing to elect these critters is the closest action to being a "crime".
self inflicted
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Well....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/19/business/19fannie.html
sorry I picked the more salacious one....
http://www.nysun.com/editorials/fannie-mae-scandal/2160/
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

Really??  Then why was the FBI, as early as 04, warning that fraud in the mortgage industry was an "epidemic" which, if not curtailed, could become "the next S&L crisis."
 
http://articles.cnn.com/2004-09-17/justice/mortgage.fraud_1_mortgage-fraud-mortgage-industry-s-l-crisis?_s=PM:LAW
 
i read that as individuals....not wall street and their general practices...in fact the story states many financial institutions (wall street) are the victims of this fraud. or did i read it wrong?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not sure I understand, DT. Are you not equating Wall Street with the financial collapse in our country?
The largest Wall Street firms prior to the meltdown:
Bear Stearnss=a global investment band/broker
JPMorgan Chase (as in Chase Bank/credit card)=banking/ securities and investments
Citigroup Inc.= banking corporation
Goldman Sachs= global investment banker and securities firm
Morgan Stanley=global banker
Merrill Lynch= a division of Bank of America
Lehman Brothers= banker
Wells Fargo & Co=banker
All of these Wall Street Banks are up to their eyeballs in the financial crisis, and most got the bailouts and a pass out of jail and continue business as usual.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

I'm not sure I understand, DT. Are you not equating Wall Street with the financial collapse in our country?

The largest Wall Street firms prior to the meltdown:

Bear Stearnss=a global investment band/broker

JPMorgan Chase (as in Chase Bank/credit card)=banking/ securities and investments

Citigroup Inc.= banking corporation

Goldman Sachs= global investment banker and securities firm

Morgan Stanley=global banker

Merrill Lynch= a division of Bank of America

Lehman Brothers= banker

Wells Fargo & Co=banker

All of these Wall Street Banks are up to their eyeballs in the financial crisis, and most got the bailouts and a pass out of jail and continue business as usual.


pass out of jail for what? this is what i am trying to find out for the last 5hree years. the story referenced individuals on a smaller level and also stated investment firms and banks were victims.....in the story. so if they were victims at the time....what crimes did the commit at the meltdown.
blame them for the collapse, blame them for bad business practice....i have no argument with that...but crimes....until someone can show me astatute on federal, state, county, or city level that they violated....they committed no crimes and did not get a pass out of jail.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
^^^ That. The banks were just playing by the rules the politicians created. As far as I know the banks paid every red cent they were loaned back with interest, unlike the car companies.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Ok, if you don't feel that the mass sale of mismarked, fraudulent, toxic mortgage-backed securities was a crime, then I will admit I guess I won't be able to convince you. These company CEO (yeah the CEO gets the blame) lied to investors about all of the empty loans they were pushing, failed to disclose how they were bundling all the toxic mortgages they cooked up, and made outrageous assurance to investors that everything was going fine just before some went bankrupt and the rest were taken over by the FED. All along giving themselves millions in bonuses!
You have got to be kidding.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/40#post_3426666
Ok, if you don't feel that the mass sale of mismarked, fraudulent, toxic mortgage-backed securities was a crime, then I will admit I guess I won't be able to convince you. These company CEO (yeah the CEO gets the blame) lied to investors about all of the empty loans they were pushing, failed to disclose how they were bundling all the toxic mortgages they cooked up, and made outrageous assurance to investors that everything was going fine just before some went bankrupt and the rest were taken over by the FED. All along giving themselves millions in bonuses!
You have got to be kidding.
Yeah but the toxic loans you speak of. They never could have been made had the government not change the regs. Like I said, they were doing everything they could think of to increase home ownership. Freddie and Fanny were actually required to buy a certain percentage of subprime loans.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/40#post_3426672
Here is an article that summarizes the issue. Yes, government was to blame too.....and not during the Obama administration. Obama is to blame for the bailout and pushing us over the debt edge. Deregulation, turning a blind eye, gave these companies the opportunity to run amok.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/business/14prosecute.html?pagewanted=all
He he, and the reason there will NEVER be any attempted prosecution.... Do ya really think the politicians want a legal investigation into why they do what they do?
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/40#post_3426666
Ok, if you don't feel that the mass sale of mismarked, fraudulent, toxic mortgage-backed securities was a crime, then I will admit I guess I won't be able to convince you. These company CEO (yeah the CEO gets the blame) lied to investors about all of the empty loans they were pushing, failed to disclose how they were bundling all the toxic mortgages they cooked up, and made outrageous assurance to investors that everything was going fine just before some went bankrupt and the rest were taken over by the FED. All along giving themselves millions in bonuses!
You have got to be kidding.
Which were sold by GOVERNMENT ENTITIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is so hard to understand? Fanny and Freddy owned those loans, hid the risks and bundled them.... Sold to those companies... If anything they were victims of govenment fraud...
you just articulated what I'd said previously, why is it soooo hard to make the simple conclusion, that government was to blame. mortage-backed securities (from Fanny and Freddy) , bundled,(from fanny and freddy) cooked up (from fanny and freddy) outrageous assurances=misrepresented risk (from fanny and freddy, I posted links of 2 different examples of them getting caught, but not forced to stop (thank you Barney Frank.) Janet Reno goes to banks in the 90's and says, hey if you don't have a proportional ammount of minority loans we're going after you... (ever heard of affermative action? Lower qualifications to allow "equal access to minorities" hence the bad loans.) They were forced to make them by government...
You did just articulate the same issue I posted earlier. However, you NEED to understand who the players were....
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/40#post_3426414
out of curiosity..what crimes were committed? i see this phrase about this subject but no one can ever list the actual crimes.
darth (tang & ahole law offices) Tang
Banks, brokers and most financial institutions have a fiduciary responsibility, and violating that responsibility (such as by representing risky investments as suitable for a 90 year old woman, or packaging substandard loans into what appears to be a sound investment) is indeed a crime. I think that is what has these protesters so upset - the lack of good faith and the calculated way that the mortgage crisis was engineered by a very few to maximize their own wealth at the expense of the American (and eventually, the world) economy. Yes, there were governmental regulations, and loopholes - and many went through those loopholes, which is technically legal, but a violation of fiduciary obligation.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/40#post_3426836
Banks, brokers and most financial institutions have a fiduciary responsibility, and violating that responsibility (such as by representing risky investments as suitable for a 90 year old woman, or packaging substandard loans into what appears to be a sound investment) is indeed a crime.
Exactly right. Its stunning that some people give these mega financial institutions a pass. Yes the government was culpable. But there is nothing in the federal regs that mandate that banks do what these banks did. Pure greed and a total disregard for their investors and the people who erogenous thought that one could trust their own bank falls at the feet of these corrupt institutions.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
So my question to Beth is, do you think the problem that you say is the basis of the Occupy group can be fixed by more government regulation and policy or less?
 
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