Explain this whole Wall Street protester thing!

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/40#post_3426847
So my question to Beth is, do you think the problem that you say is the basis of the Occupy group can be fixed by more government regulation and policy or less?
I can't answer for Beth but it's "neither" in my opinion. The solution is to enforce the regulations currently in place. Adding more unenforced regulation is probably not going to help anything.
 

spanko

Active Member
So Bang, you don't think that there is any validity in the arguement that the "everyone" should have a home and the government along with the banking industry did what they could to make that happen caused the "bubble" and the resultant problems in the first place?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I don't think there was ever a policy or a goal that "everyone should have a home". I do think that the government, good intentioned, wished to put mechanisms in place for your average citizen to have homes, but that doesn't imply that they should have a home that they can't pay for, or that they should get loans that they can't pay back. It also doesn't mean that banks should throw loans at people who don't have the financial solvency to pay for those loans, or that people making $50,000 should be given loans for a half million dollar house. Yes, enforce existing regs. And don't think that those responsible for the calamity that we are in should get a pass, just because "they are too big to fail". Bottom line criminals got away with what they did because the government did not want to open up that can worms--which included shining a light onto their own (the government's) culpability.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Not all regulations are created equal. What we need is sensible regulation, not more or less.
Now the DC moron squad is talking about requiring banks to lower the principle on mortgages of people who are upside down on their home loans so they wont just walk away from their home and let if foreclose. HOW ABOUT YOU CHANGE THE LAW SO THEY CAN'T JUST WALK AWAY FROM THEIR OBLIGATION?
I could pay cash for my house because I was willing to buy a modest home. It leaves me money to invest so I can have a nest egg saved up. The DCMS now wants to raise my capital gains taxes and force the bank that only pays me about 1% on my money market savings account to give some idiot who bought more house than they can afford a break on their home loan.
Is this a great country or what?
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/40#post_3426846
Exactly right. Its stunning that some people give these mega financial institutions a pass. Yes the government was culpable. But there is nothing in the federal regs that mandate that banks do what these banks did. Pure greed and a total disregard for their investors and the people who erogenous thought that one could trust their own bank falls at the feet of these corrupt institutions.
There were federal regulations, that mandated the banks do what they did...There is plenty of equal housing legislation, Community Reinvestment act, etc. The feds sued banks numerous times, because they'd refuse to lend. You really think these greedy corporations are more racist than greedy? Because that is what is imply by thinking they denied people over race, vs making a buck which these regulations, and law suites implicitly state.
 

bigarn

Active Member
Come on people, what's all the bickering about? This great country of our's is crooked as crooked gets! You all think "Occupy this that or the other thing" is bad?? Just wait!!
big (fed up) arn
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I don't necessarily agree with the Occupy tactics, but I do agree with their beef. Yes, every one with power and our politicians are corrupt....but I don't have to like it. Are we going to just roll over on this one?
 

slice

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigarn http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/60#post_3426968
Come on people, what's all the bickering about? This great country of our's is crooked as crooked gets! You all think "Occupy this that or the other thing" is bad?? Just wait!!

big (fed up) arn
What are you inferring?
More "Quantitative Easing"? The Dollar losing it's "World Reserve Currency" status? Geithner devaluing the Dollar?
All the above?? You mean the REAL problems?!?
If so, yeah, the "occupy" stuff is only a petty afterthought.
 

bigarn

Active Member
I can only hope our government gets the enema it sooooo sorely needs! Let's face it, our government has become not only pathetic to us, but pathetic to the world! Super power? What a joke!
 

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/60#post_3426962
There were federal regulations, that mandated the banks do what they did...There is plenty of equal housing legislation, Community Reinvestment act, etc. The feds sued banks numerous times, because they'd refuse to lend. You really think these greedy corporations are more racist than greedy? Because that is what is imply by thinking they denied people over race, vs making a buck which these regulations, and law suites implicitly state.
If you need a target for your finger pointing I would recommend Barney Frank.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/60#post_3427067
I think I mentioned him earlier? But realistically he was just a player in a larger game.
I do not disagree with you at all. I only point out that he accepted the responsibility of overseeing on behalf of the people of the United States. He not only failed to oversee, he lied about the health of the mortgage guarantees and encouraged it's demise in return for a few thousand in campaign contributions. TRILLIONS
of dollars in losses to the citizens of the United Stated in return for a measly few thousand in campaign contributions. TRILLIONS!
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Realistically, they did nothing different than Enron, except instead of employees being screwed over, they screwed over the entire financial system. Oh and they were run by democrats... That helps stay out of jail and into a presidential staff...
 

spanko

Active Member
IDK but from my reading things like boosting demand for housing via the Commuity Reinvestment Act and other federal programs to extend home ownership to low-income families along with the federal reserve banks low interest so they could get the loans caused the housing bubble. (read government meddling here)
So you get a glut of new home building because of the demand, the resulting increase in home prices because of demand, and the eventual inability of the "low-income" folks to maintain their mortgage payments and the bubble bursts.
To me this was the cause, the other things mentioned here about the banks and security companies are just resultant symptoms of these actions by the government. Yes this was an effort to get "everyone" into the American Dream, home ownership!! Even those that could not afford it.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Ah, home ownership. Then I can agree with you. Earlier you said "everyone having a home" I see now that you meant "everyone owning their home".
Yeah, the NINJA loans were encouraged by Freddie & Fannie. Barney Frank made it clear that they would purchase ANY mortgage so it opened the door to a lot of very bad loans and the lenders went wild.
In actuality through the CRA loans had a stringent qualification process so I do not believe they contributed significantly to the problem. No more than any other mortgage.
 

spanko

Active Member
The problem with the CRA was the strict evaluation criteria that banks were under to score highly. Remember that the banks not scoring well were not allowed mergers to happen, were not allowed to build new branches etc. In the criteria below look at the number of instances where lo or moderate income individual or areas are addressed. The CRA was specifically targeting these individuals and areas. Also note "Among the assessment criteria are the geographic distribution of lending, the distribution of lending across different types of borrowers, the extent of community development lending, and the use of innovative or flexible lending practices to address the credit needs of low- or moderate-income individuals or areas. While not actually requiring by law the banks do this, they were "rating" them against this criteria and holding the you "are not going to expand your business" gun to their heads.
Also note that these subprime loan policies adopted by the mortgage lending institutions default percentages were not highest in these "low-income" areas but in the moderate to higher income areas. The places where perhaps the borrowers were at a steady job, could make the monthly payments etc. but bought housing so far outside of their real ability that when the economy started to go down, they lost their jobs, the higher interest rates of the subprime mortgage they signed up to started to kick in, and the value of their homes started to decrease so that they were now upside down-----boom----foreclosures. And the rates here were higher than in the low-income areas.
The problem again IMO is the government trying to regulate the industry and the unintended consequences that happen.
The CRA was trying to fix the problem that the banks in low-come areas were taking the money for deposit from those areas but not reinvesting into those areas through loans to people for houses, small businesses etc. The government thought this unfair and tried to regulate it. So the banking started to make ill advised loans both in these areas and in others.
So di I have an alternative idea to counter this? No but hindsight says this was not the way to go about it.
The Three CRA Performance Tests
The regulations that implement the CRA set forth three tests by which
the performance of most large retail banking institutions is evaluated: a
lending test, an investment test, and a service test.
The lending test involves the measurement of lending activity for
a variety of loan types, including home mortgage, small business and
small farm loans. Among the assessment criteria are the geographic
distribution of lending, the distribution of lending across different types
of borrowers, the extent of community development lending, and the use
of innovative or flexible lending practices to address the credit needs of
low- or moderate-income individuals or areas.
The investment test considers a banking institution's qualified
investments that benefit the institution's assessment area or a broader
statewide or regional area that includes its assessment area. A qualified
investment is a lawful investment, deposit, membership share, or grant
that has community development as its primary purpose.
The service test considers the availability of an institution's
system for delivering retail banking services and judges the extent of its
community development services and their degree of innovativeness and
responsiveness. Among the assessment criteria for retail banking
services are the geographic distribution of an institution's branches and
the availability and effectiveness of alternative systems for delivering
retail banking services, such as automated teller machines, in low- and
moderate-income areas and to low- and moderate-income persons.
 

mrdc

Active Member
At least I made some decent coin when I shorted Country Wide.
I guess during the whole fiasco I was floored by what the banks AND the consumers were doing. I couldn't beleive the banks were giving out such loans even though they were legal but I guess I was hoping they would have some morals and tell the consumer that this is a risky loan. But I know that they are also in the business of making money and that is what they are more focused on.
As far as the consumer, it seems that it got to the point where everyone wanted what everyone else had. I work at McDs making $6 an hour so I should be able to own a $300k house. Get real. When I moved 6 years ago, I was shocked at what the bank said I could afford. I was like yeah, I would be living check to check and could afford nothing else ( l also like my disposable income too much ... how else can I be in this hobby). BUT they would work it out by giving me an interest only loan, or an arm or a negam or whatever else can be used to get you into that house. Maybe I am hearltess, but I do blame a lot of the defaults on consumers and not just the banks.
 

reefraff

Active Member
I was amazed by people who were taking out interest only loans so they couple buy a bigger house and just flip it in a few years or refinance when the equity went up. It just frosts me that some of those idiots got government assistance to stay in the houses they couldn't afford in the first place.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
To respond to the claims here that government meddling (CRA) was to blame for the morgage meltdown, here is an anyalis from the FED.
Quote:
Another way to measure the relationship between the CRA and the subprime crisis is to examine foreclosure activity across neighborhoods that are classified by income. Data made available by RealtyTrac on foreclosure filings from January 2006 through August 2008 indicate that most foreclosure filings (e.g., about 70 percent in 2006) have taken place in middle- or higher-income neighborhoods. More important, foreclosure filings have increased at a faster pace in middle- or higher-income areas than in lower-income areas that are the focus of the CRA.
Two basic points emerge from our analysis of the available data. First, only a small portion of subprime mortgage originations is related to the CRA. Second, CRA-related loans appear to perform comparably to other types of subprime loans. Taken together, the available evidence seems to run counter to the contention that the CRA contributed in any substantive way to the current mortgage crisis.
http://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications_papers/pub_display.cfm?id=4136
 
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