Explain this whole Wall Street protester thing!

stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/80#post_3427706
It's cute that you all think there is anything you or any mob of people (on either side of the ideological aisle) can do to make a darn bit of difference in this crumbling country. Whether you like it or not, the 1% have now, and always will, run this country. That's the downfall of a capitalistic society. The politicians are the ones who make policy, and those same politicians are the ones who depend 100% on the money and contributions from the 1% to make sure they are elected in the first place.
The only way things are ever going to "change", is if the entire system and society collapses on itself from excess greed and is forced to start over, or even more peril, it gets to the point where people are literally going to take to the streets violently.
This is almost like a 21st century version of why we the United States left England in the first place. We were being unfairly taxed by the powerful English elite to ensure their wealth and stranglehold of the new colonies was not compromised.
I don't really see how that's much different from the current domestic elite breaking laws, sending their own country-men's job overseas, buying tax policy to ensure they make money no matter what (hello bailout), not to mention not caring even a little if the "consumer" they care so dearly about lives or dies; so long as they keep making their billions. At some point you have to put human life over greed.
And I think the saddest part of all is that so many on the right who ARE the 99% will live and die to defend the very companies and corporations that are making their lives continue in the downward spiral, all because they "believe in a free market" society. And the really sad part, is that people like Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Bill O'Reilly these southern mega churches, FOX News and the like are all in the 1% who are screwing Americans to the wall, yet their drones of followers sheepishly repeat the talking points.
It's like the abused wife. You keep getting screwed but you keep going back because "he loves you". Wake up people...
lol, southern mega churches?!?
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I don't get how megachurches are part of the problem, though. See this is the left/right stuff that gets in the way of talking seriously about our problems. I may need an aluminum foil hat, also, but other than the church being thrown in, I agree with most of Clemson's post.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/100#post_3427711
I don't get how megachurches are part of the problem, though. See this is the left/right stuff that gets in the way of talking seriously about our problems. I may need an aluminum foil hat, also, but other than the church being thrown in, I agree with most of Clemson's post.
The issue is, it isn't the greed of the private sector, it is the dishonesty and greed of the political and bureaucratic class, that is the issue...
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/80#post_3427706
It's cute that you all think there is anything you or any mob of people (on either side of the ideological aisle) can do to make a darn bit of difference in this crumbling country. Whether you like it or not, the 1% have now, and always will, run this country. That's the downfall of a capitalistic society. The politicians are the ones who make policy, and those same politicians are the ones who depend 100% on the money and contributions from the 1% to make sure they are elected in the first place.
The only way things are ever going to "change", is if the entire system and society collapses on itself from excess greed and is forced to start over, or even more peril, it gets to the point where people are literally going to take to the streets violently.
This is almost like a 21st century version of why we the United States left England in the first place. We were being unfairly taxed by the powerful English elite to ensure their wealth and stranglehold of the new colonies was not compromised.
I don't really see how that's much different from the current domestic elite breaking laws, sending their own country-men's job overseas, buying tax policy to ensure they make money no matter what (hello bailout), not to mention not caring even a little if the "consumer" they care so dearly about lives or dies; so long as they keep making their billions. At some point you have to put human life over greed.
And I think the saddest part of all is that so many on the right who ARE the 99% will live and die to defend the very companies and corporations that are making their lives continue in the downward spiral, all because they "believe in a free market" society. And the really sad part, is that people like Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Bill O'Reilly these southern mega churches, FOX News and the like are all in the 1% who are screwing Americans to the wall, yet their drones of followers sheepishly repeat the talking points.
It's like the abused wife. You keep getting screwed but you keep going back because "he loves you". Wake up people...
You REALLY should actually watch Glenn Beck some time instead of believing what some blogger has to say or a 15 second spliced video clip makes it appear he says.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Agreed, but it will take reforming both to fix the current problem. This malaise will become permanent if the system doesn't become more equitable.
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/100#post_3427710
lol, southern mega churches?!?
I was in South Carolina quite often as a child, in a predominantly southern Baptist area. The thing that really turned me off to politics early in my life was how the church was the end all, say all reason why the majority of the people voted the way they did. I remember the little flyers that always popped up around election time that said who God thought you should vote for.
Which is fine and dandy in it's own right if they were doing it because a certain candidate or issue was "pro-Christianity". The problem is, the churches were getting HUGE "offerings" from certain people and companies to secure their pastor told his congregation who to vote for. This was highly effective in the local setting, and I can tell you from my friends who are still there that GW Bush would have never won the vote had he not received the millions of votes from the elderly folks who cast their vote simply because the church told them to.
It only bothers me because these churches are in bed with big money just like corporations are, yet they get a free pass for doing it for "moral" reasons. Just my two cents about that...
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/100#post_3427720
You REALLY should actually watch Glenn Beck some time instead of believing what some blogger has to say or a 15 second spliced video clip makes it appear he says.
I actually did watch Glen Beck back when he was on CNN regularly. And no not because it was CNN and not FOXNews, but because back then he didn't sound like a delusional paranoid militia man...
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/100#post_3427725
I was in South Carolina quite often as a child, in a predominantly southern Baptist area. The thing that really turned me off to politics early in my life was how the church was the end all, say all reason why the majority of the people voted the way they did. I remember the little flyers that always popped up around election time that said who God thought you should vote for.
Which is fine and dandy in it's own right if they were doing it because a certain candidate or issue was "pro-Christianity". The problem is, the churches were getting HUGE "offerings" from certain people and companies to secure their pastor told his congregation who to vote for. This was highly effective in the local setting, and I can tell you from my friends who are still there that GW Bush would have never won the vote had he not received the millions of votes from the elderly folks who cast their vote simply because the church told them to.
It only bothers me because these churches are in bed with big money just like corporations are, yet they get a free pass for doing it for "moral" reasons. Just my two cents about that...
I don't think we're too far off on this either Clemson. It's part of the "it's our guys, so we'll tow the party line" mentality that can be found on both sides of the aisle. I am a fiscal and cultural conservative, but I know no one is always right and no one is always wrong. The liberals are right to point out how big business is crippling the middle class. It is also right for conservatives to point out how big government is crippling business. Where the problem lies is both sides think it is an all or nothing game. There is a middle ground but neither side wants to get there. They are entrenched in their ideology and we the people are stuck between.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/100#post_3427725
I was in South Carolina quite often as a child, in a predominantly southern Baptist area. The thing that really turned me off to politics early in my life was how the church was the end all, say all reason why the majority of the people voted the way they did. I remember the little flyers that always popped up around election time that said who God thought you should vote for.
Which is fine and dandy in it's own right if they were doing it because a certain candidate or issue was "pro-Christianity". The problem is, the churches were getting HUGE "offerings" from certain people and companies to secure their pastor told his congregation who to vote for. This was highly effective in the local setting, and I can tell you from my friends who are still there that GW Bush would have never won the vote had he not received the millions of votes from the elderly folks who cast their vote simply because the church told them to.
It only bothers me because these churches are in bed with big money just like corporations are, yet they get a free pass for doing it for "moral" reasons. Just my two cents about that...
now I'm confused who is big money, I thought corporations were big money....-
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/100#post_3427716
The issue is, it isn't the greed of the private sector, it is the dishonesty and greed of the political and bureaucratic class, that is the issue...
Sorry, its both. Hard to understand why you and a few others here continue to trust the mega-powerful business community (yes, WS) as if they were your dear grandmother. You're not alone, unfortunately, even after they were a large contributing factor to the near financial collapse of our country. Yes, politics these days is sickening. Politicians are as phony and self-interested as they have never been before in American history. Whose to blame? Americans. We vote them in, and we believe their BS rhetoric and follow along party lines and our favorite media indoctrination centers like rats to the pied piper.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/100#post_3427731
Sorry, its both. Hard to understand why you and a few others here continue to trust the mega-powerful business community (yes, WS) as if they were your dear grandmother. You're not alone, unfortunately, even after they were a large contributing factor to the near financial collapse of our country. Yes, politics these days is sickening. Politicians are as phony and self-interested as they have never been before in American history. Whose to blame? Americans. We vote them in, and we believe their BS rhetoric and follow along party lines and our favorite media indoctrination centers like rats to the pied piper.
It is simple, government is far far far more powerful, than Apple, Starbucks, General Electric or take your pick of "evil corporation." I can walk away from Comcast, I cant walk away from the government.
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/100#post_3427735
It is simple, government is far far far more powerful, than Apple, Starbucks, General Electric or take your pick of "evil corporation." I can walk away from Comcast, I cant walk away from the government.
See in my eyes, I feel like the government and Apple, Starbucks, GE, Comcast and the like are almost interchangeable. The CEO's and billionaire's of these companies are the ones who influence the politicians to make sure that they and their money stay in house. To me, I don't feel like the government or the "evil corporations" gives two hoots about you or I, just their respective bottom lines...
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Clemson your church argument holds no water. If this was the case Obama would never have won the election as the churches support would for mccain as he was the "more christian" one. especially since most big churches tend to lean republican.
this financial debate is ridiculous to me. i look at it this way. It is like an abortion. mom is the politician, the doctor iscorpration. mom screams and makes so the doctor has to perform the abortion under law, so the doc does the procedure as mom desires. we are the baby in the scenario. both killed us, both hold blame........yet ultimatily is the decision of one how the other should operate.
in the end, does it matter....the baby (us) are still dead. hopefully we give mom an infection though so she
learns....since we cant harm the doctor.
darth (strangest analogy ever) Tang
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/100#post_3427726
I actually did watch Glen Beck back when he was on CNN regularly. And no not because it was CNN and not FOXNews, but because back then he didn't sound like a delusional paranoid militia man...
I didn't listen to him on CNN so I can't speak about his time there but in his time of Fox I can tell you that hardly a day went buy that he didn't say "Don't believe what I am telling you. Do your homework and check the facts for yourself" What you are completely missing is he is encouraging people to fact check AND THINK for themselves. I don't agree with everything the guy says but I love the fact he encourages people to do their own research. Beck thinks we are headed for a collapse and is encouraging people to position themselves for it.
Explain to me how his position is any different than your own when you wrote
" It's cute that you all think there is anything you or any mob of people (on either side of the ideological aisle) can do to make a darn bit of difference in this crumbling country. Whether you like it or not, the 1% have now, and always will, run this country. That's the downfall of a capitalistic society. The politicians are the ones who make policy, and those same politicians are the ones who depend 100% on the money and contributions from the 1% to make sure they are elected in the first place.
The only way things are ever going to "change", is if the entire system and society collapses on itself from excess greed and is forced to start over, or even more peril, it gets to the point where people are literally going to take to the streets violently."
You see the same dangers he is talking about. That's why I say you should listen to what he has to say before lumping him in with Limbaugh or O'reilly.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/100#post_3427731
Sorry, its both. Hard to understand why you and a few others here continue to trust the mega-powerful business community (yes, WS) as if they were your dear grandmother. You're not alone, unfortunately, even after they were a large contributing factor to the near financial collapse of our country. Yes, politics these days is sickening. Politicians are as phony and self-interested as they have never been before in American history. Whose to blame? Americans. We vote them in, and we believe their BS rhetoric and follow along party lines and our favorite media indoctrination centers like rats to the pied piper.
I think the point you are missing is it's the government's job to regulate corporations. Corporations exist to make money (most anyway). Bitching at them for doing what they are created to do serves no useful purpose. And it isn't a matter of trusting the corporations. I don't. But MANY of those protestors are not protesting the current economic situation. They are using it as an excuse to protest against the capitalist system general and I'll have no part of that.
If they want to change banking regulations let's have a look. I am not a fan of to big to fail so show me a solution. The anti trust laws are on the books for a reason.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/100#post_3427738
See in my eyes, I feel like the government and Apple, Starbucks, GE, Comcast and the like are almost interchangeable. The CEO's and billionaire's of these companies are the ones who influence the politicians to make sure that they and their money stay in house. To me, I don't feel like the government or the "evil corporations" gives two hoots about you or I, just their respective bottom lines...
Close but the corporations need a somewhat prosperous middle class to buy their goods and services. The government just wants money to keep feeding itself and isn't too particular where they get it from. I've been hearing the pandering to the middle class since the 70's and nobody has come through yet.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
The laughable part of your populist rhetoric, is the main complaint, about the distribution of power and wealth. Like it or not, this has been the MOST equal distribution of wealth, ever in recorded human history. But hey, lets end the capitalistic system, and make everyone poor...
 
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