Explain this whole Wall Street protester thing!

beth

beth

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Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425496
While the banks did take this to a level never imagined it was stupidity on the government's part that created the mess. They didn't just encourage banks to make high risk mortgages, they required it.
As far as these protestors a whole lot of them are Marxists but I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush.
While government deregulation contributed to the meltdown, it was not an excuse for lending companies to go orgy wild in offering highly risky, fraudulently creative loans to people who apparently didn't know better; pawning off the worthless debt on unsuspecting investors. Pure unadulterated selfish greed caused the crisis. And no one has paid for this. Not one banker has been indicted. Why do they get to walk away with their ill-gained profits?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/20#post_3425525
While government deregulation contributed to the meltdown, it was not an excuse for lending companies to go orgy wild in offering highly risky, fraudulently creative loans to people who apparently didn't know better; pawning off the worthless debt on unsuspecting investors. Pure unadulterated selfish greed caused the crisis. And no one has paid for this. Not one banker has been indicted. Why do they get to walk away with their ill-gained profits?
Ahem, it wasn't deregulation, it was regulation. Banks were required to write mortgages for "high risk" individuals. The law was changed to allow bundling securities which is how they were able to sluff off bad loans on Freddie and Fanny. I am not making excuses for the banks, I am saying had the government been doing it's jobs the banks couldn't have pull this crap. GW Bush actually proposed increasing oversight of Freddie and Fanny and the Democrats lead the charge against it. Hows that for irony? Republican asking for more regulation and Dems fighting it...
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
The question of the day is - what side of the fence will they be voting on come next November? They are very disorganized, but this Rogue Group Of Merry Men are popping up in virtually every major city across the nation. All they need is a Robin Hood to take the lead, and the influence of the Tea Party will take a back seat, and politicians and POTUS candidates will be fawning all over them.
 
gemmy

gemmy

Active Member
Now, can someone explain why the protesters in Philly were carrying signs about losing jobs due to being transgender?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/20#post_3425571
The question of the day is - what side of the fence will they be voting on come next November? They are very disorganized, but this Rogue Group Of Merry Men are popping up in virtually every major city across the nation. All they need is a Robin Hood to take the lead, and the influence of the Tea Party will take a back seat, and politicians and POTUS candidates will be fawning all over them.
They are left wing so I would assume 0bama or the green party. I don't know about the original group but SEIU and Working Families parties are involved and paying protestors now. They ain't even close to having the Tea Party's clout right now and if they don't get their act together really fast they never will.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425459
With this line of thinking then we can assume that Tea Party goers are all members of the KKK. There are always fringe elements. There are way too many people out there, saying the same thing, to just go along the conservative media talking points of claiming these are hippie, commie crackpots.
How soon we forget what happened in 2008. The banks and corporates got away with highway robbery by fraudulently setting in motion smoke and mirror mortgage loans, and then "our" government bailed them out (against the will of most Americans) .
Why be so quick to defend these criminals? When it comes to big banking and big business, free enterprise in this country is an illusion. Politicians are in the pockets of big money, and the rest of us (99%) are left holding the bag.
This group should learn a few things from their Tea Party counterparts in terms of organization, avoidance of law-breaking, and goal setting.
Does anyone ever wonder why conservative media dedicates so very much time and energy to trying to convince its listeners that bankers and big business are all the good guys and the solution to all our problems? Why would we think so after 2008? Naive.
umm, this is completely inaccurate. You can boil down what happened to 1 thing, government intervention. What happened was this, politicians decided that not enough minorities owners were buying houses. So they came in during the clinton administration and threatened the banks, (ever head of Fair/Equal opportunity housing) So they ramped up a small government organization already in place. Bring on Fanny and Freddy, (which are government entities). These turkeys started buying loans from the banks. The banks being profiteers, and understanding the "game" said fine, I'll lend these unqualified people money for houses. (see Darth's analogy) Because they weren't taking any risk, (the government was buying loans anyway) their only risk was them defaulting before they could sell the loans to the government. So they priced these loans accordingly.
Fanny and Freddy, (government entities) then took those loans, cooked their books, and presented them as an almost riskless investment, as they bundled those loans and sold note on them. They were offering decent returns, claiming non-existant, better than cash risks, insulated from inflation. So private groups, used that instead of cash for their holdings. So once these buyers were unable to pay their homeloans, these "better than cash" notes that were sold by the government, became worthless. All the capital that these major companies had sitting in these notes make these major companies unstable.
There was a proven track record of subprime lending before the government got involed, and for the most part it worked. Interest rates for high risk borrowers were appropriately priced to ensure their breakeven points etc, and we didn't have this happen.
BTW, the KKK an old southern, organization of terror, was run by democrats, until the 90's there were no republicans in the south... So your implication is inaccurate....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing#post_3425508
those of you complaining about wall street acting like wall street, i have one question for you.
do you blame the lion for eating the goat placed in its pen......or do you blame the zookeeper for putting the goat in there?
darth (setting up for the hammer drop) Tang
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/20#post_3425525
While government deregulation contributed to the meltdown, it was not an excuse for lending companies to go orgy wild in offering highly risky, fraudulently creative loans to people who apparently didn't know better; pawning off the worthless debt on unsuspecting investors. Pure unadulterated selfish greed caused the crisis. And no one has paid for this. Not one banker has been indicted. Why do they get to walk away with their ill-gained profits?
The government pawned worthless debt. FANNY AND FREDDY ARE GOVERNMENT ENTITIES!!!!!!!!! You know why no one was indited, because the guys who cooked this up are still in congress, or Mayor of chicago.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/20#post_3425623
They are left wing so I would assume 0bama or the green party. I don't know about the original group but SEIU and Working Families parties are involved and paying protestors now. They ain't even close to having the Tea Party's clout right now and if they don't get their act together really fast they never will.
I think there is little doubt who they'd vote for...
 
mrdc

mrdc

Active Member
I was worried about these protests turning violent and then I read this:
Citizen journalist Ringo captured this speaker at the Occupy Los Angeles camp a few days ago letting the cat out of the bag: After dismissing nonviolence as a dead end, he admits that for the Occupiers to achieve their goals, violence and bloodshed will be necessary.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
This is long-winded, I know, but may be worth considering for anybody interested in reviewing a non-partisan, official, perspective regarding the Mortgage Meltdown.
Quote:
NATIONAL COMMISSION ON THE CAUSES OF THE FINANCIAL AND ECONOMIC CRISIS IN THE UNITED STATES (bipartisan commission established by PL 111-21/2009)
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-FCIC/pdf/GPO-FCIC.pdf
We conclude widespread failures in financial regulation and supervision proved devastating to the stability of the nation’s financial markets. The sentries were not at their posts, in no small part due to the widely accepted faith in the self correcting nature of the markets and the ability of financial institutions to effectively police themselves. More than 30 years of deregulation and reliance on self-regulation by financial institutions, championed by former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan and others, supported by successive administrations and Congresses, and actively pushed by the powerful financial industry at every turn, had stripped away key safeguards, which could have helped avoid catastrophe. This approach had opened up gaps in oversight of critical areas with trillions of dollars at risk, such as the shadow banking system and over-the-counter derivatives markets. In addition, the government permitted financial firms to pick their preferred regulators in what became a race to the weakest supervisor.
Yet we do not accept the view that regulators lacked the power to protect the financial system. They had ample power in many arenas and they chose not to use it. To give just three examples: the Securities and Exchange Commission could have required more capital and halted risky practices at the big investment banks. It did not. The Federal Reserve Bank of ov-rkygca">New York and other regulators could have clamped down on Citigroup’s excesses in the run-up to the crisis. They did not. Policy makers and regulators could have stopped the runaway mortgage securitization train. They did not. In case after case after case, regulators continued to rate the institutions they oversaw as safe and sound even in the face of mounting troubles, often downgrading them just before their collapse. And where regulators lacked authority, they could have sought it. Too often, they lacked the political will—in a political and ideological environment that constrained it—as well as the fortitude to critically challenge the institutions and the entire system they were entrusted to oversee.
Changes in the regulatory system occurred in many instances as financial markets evolved. But as the report will show, the financial industry itself played a key role in weakening regulatory constraints on institutions, markets, and products. It did not surprise the Commission that an industry of such wealth and power would exert pressure on policy makers and regulators. From 1999 to 2008, the financial sector expended 2.7 billion in reported federal lobbying expenses; individuals and political action committees in the sector made more than 1 billion in campaign contributions. What troubled us was the extent to which the nation was deprived of the necessary strength and independence of the oversight necessary to safeguard financial stability.
We conclude dramatic failures of corporate governance and risk management at many systemically important financial institutions were a key cause of this crisis.
This is the basis of the Occupy Movement, haphazard and disorganized that they are. Also, from what I have been following, they are not all liberals. They represent a wide range of people, from varying political beliefs and ideologies. The one thing that they hold to is that government in bed with %1 is the cause of the financial woos of this country. How can we not acknowledge that fact? Doesn’t it bother you that the only way to become a leader in this country is if you are rich and have powerful connections?
In regards to the KKK and the Tea Party, my point is that there were videos of the KKK in association with TP events at some point early on. Does that mean that the TP represents the ideology of the KKK? No, it doesn’t. So just because you get someone at an Occupy movement to say that violence is necessary, or that they are Marxist, doesnnt-size: 10pt">’t mean that is what the movement is about. If you would give your brain a break from right wing media talking points/indoctrination, you might be able to think that one through for yourself rather then trying to give me a slanted history lesson on the origins of this group—which is irrelevant to what we are talking about.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Not that I ever saw or could turn up a KKK group at a Tea Party rally using google I am sure there were some at some event somewhere.
In the case of occupy wall street you have a number of Marxist and Communist groups there and making their presence known. The originators might not be but they are being co opted by the World worker party, Working Families party and others who are seen on numerous videos calling for an end to capitalism.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I am one of the lucky people who pays income tax. Any family who makes over $47k has to pay federal income tax. So when I found out I paid more taxes on our $60k than most major corporations, I was ready to march on Wall Street. It's a racket that is rigged for the super-wealthy-they were given my tax $ to bail them out+they didn't lose a dang thing after losing so many people's retirements and life savings+they are still being bailed out with monetary policy. Calling for the golden parachute and federal corporate welfare to end is not socialism. The communists and socialists have decried the "evil corporate machine" forever, so it makes sense that when there really is fire in the smoke, of course they are going to show up and try to coop the momentum. I am opposed to the actions the rent-a-mob is employing and too many of the people are professional protesters. That doesn't mean that there is no merit in the problem being protested.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
the politicians enable wall street to do all these things. the politicians pass the laws you, I and wall street operate inside of. the blame is directed at the wrong entities...that is my issue with this. until we as a people are willing to sgop looking at parties and groups and willing to vote for individuals...this will not change.we allow the people we vote forto act in this manner....why should anyone or anything else be different.
can anyone here tell me the last five bills congress voted on? I bet no one.....and then we are surprised when things crash around us because of these bills passed that ALLOW these actions to occur.
darth (we are ignorant) Tang
 
mrdc

mrdc

Active Member
I have to admit I am ignorant on most bills passed. I normally don't find out what has passed until the media picks up on it or when a passed bill causes some sort of crisis.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

I have to admit I am ignorant on most bills passed. I normally don't find out what has passed until the media picks up on it or when a passed bill causes some sort of crisis.

like the financial meltdown. again...misguided though admirable protest against the wrong entity.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
No doubt about it. Those blessed with governing us have thrown us to the wolves time and again. Both they, and those who line their pockets are equally immoral and unethical. And, I agree, as long as each party members' are blinded by party propaganda, and they are willing to vote blindly by party lines, thinking that the evildoer is actually the "other side" then America will be on the hook until we self destruct.
I am hoping that this group gets it together enough that it actually does become a viable movement that represents an eye-opener for Americans who still believe that there is good in our leaders, and that the solution to our economic woos is to trust cooperate America to do the right thing. Not talking about your average neighborhood businessman, obviously.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Problem is the unions and marxists and the most organized part of that group right now.
They are protesting the wrong place anyway. They should be camped out in front of the capitol.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/20#post_3425707
Not that I ever saw or could turn up a KKK group at a Tea Party rally using google I am sure there were some at some event somewhere.
In the case of occupy wall street you have a number of Marxist and Communist groups there and making their presence known. The originators might not be but they are being co opted by the World worker party, Working Families party and others who are seen on numerous videos calling for an end to capitalism.
Well if you believe nancy pelosi's claims, there was....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388420/explain-this-whole-wall-street-protester-thing/20#post_3425683
This is long-winded, I know, but may be worth considering for anybody interested in reviewing a non-partisan, official, perspective regarding the Mortgage Meltdown.
Quote:
This is the basis of the Occupy Movement, haphazard and disorganized that they are. Also, from what I have been following, they are not all liberals. They represent a wide range of people, from varying political beliefs and ideologies. The one thing that they hold to is that government in bed with %1 is the cause of the financial woos of this country. How can we not acknowledge that fact? Doesn’t it bother you that the only way to become a leader in this country is if you are rich and have powerful connections?
In regards to the KKK and the Tea Party, my point is that there were videos of the KKK in association with TP events at some point early on. Does that mean that the TP represents the ideology of the KKK? No, it doesn’t. So just because you get someone at an Occupy movement to say that violence is necessary, or that they are Marxist, doesn’t mean that is what the movement is about. If you would give your brain a break from right wing media talking points/indoctrination, you might be able to think that one through for yourself rather then trying to give me a slanted history lesson on the origins of this group—ze: 10pt">which is irrelevant to what we are talking about.
I'd go into why I completely disagree, but it would take an equally long explanation. But I'll sum it up. There is no such thing as a non-partisan "investigatory body" when it comes to that, it is all simply a "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." You're NEVER EVER going to hear someone who makes their money discussing regulations say, that it was there fault... I don't care if it is a D or an R by their name.
2nd, I didn't make up the explanation of what happened. I personally know economics, and fiance professors, currently working in the field, that completely agree with me. (and a few democrat ones at that). I've gone through point by point, the evidence for that, in multiple threads.
3rd, imo that whole first paragraph is completely discredited by the first line in the second PP.
"Yet we do not accept the view that regulators lacked the power to protect the financial system. They had ample power in many arenas and they chose not to use it." In one breath they say, oh it was because of deregulation, then in the next breath say, oh they absolutely had the regulatory power to head this off and chose not too...
 
ironeagle2006

ironeagle2006

Active Member
You want to no how bad things were with the Commuinty Reinvenstment act that Created this whole Fiasco. I am Disabled and one of the Groups that Qualify as one of the NEEDED Groups of Homeowners according to the FEDS. Well in 2002 with No INCOME NO JOB AND NO ASSETS I was APPROVED for a 200K Mortage if I had wanted it. I refused to do it for one reason I did not want it. Why called I did not want a Foreclosure hanging over my head. I would have gotten a NINJA Mortage as they became to be called. Yet when the GOP demanded oversight on Freddie and Fannie the Democrfats led by Dodd and Frank Screamed there is NOTHING WRONG WITH FREDDIE AND FANNIE. What have those 2 places cost us now close to a TRILLION BUCKS more than the Wars in the Middle East COMBINED I KNOW THAT.
 
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